There are many posts on AR about "power,killing power" etc.

On my 2 Safaris I took 2 double rifles, a 450 No2 and a Chapuis 9,3x74R.
On both Safaris the 9,3 was used on plains game with perfect results.
On both Safaris the 450 No2 performed perfect as well.

However on my second Safari I shot an elephant cow, side brain shot with the 9,3x74 R Woodleigh solid. Complete penetration.
I killed 2 buff with my 450 No2, and one with the 9,3x74R. The buff with the 9,3 was the biggest in body [and horn] by far. The one with the 9,3 was the only one killed with one shot.

On Giraffe I shot one 9 times with the 450 No2, all good hits, the Giraffe I took with the 9,3 took 3 shots, both including a finisher after the giraffe wqas on the ground.
Go figure....

However I would not hesitate to go to Africa with multiple buff and elephant on quota and use the 9,3x74R double as my Big Gun.

Those of you who are on a budget, and want to experience hunting with a double rifle, consider a Chapuis 9,3x74R.

For the Dollar spent, there is no better hunting rifle on the Planet.

The Valmet 412/Tikka 512/Finnclassic 512S in 9.3x74R is under $2k new, about $1K used, and imho is THE poor man's DG double. (But then I am biased, given that I am the agent for these incredible guns).

Add a set of 12 ga bbls for addl $600 plus minus.

What a deal!

The only gun I truly regret selling was my 9.3x74r Chapuis. Accurate ,light,quick but gave me a headache to shoot. I have thought of trading my 470 Merkel for a 9.3 though. If I get another it would definitely be heavier and have a mercury tube. I had a UGEX and the buttstock was quite light and barrels were short. Pointed like magic. Had 2 Valmet's and liked them very much. One was a salesmans setup with 3 sets of barrels in fitted case. EASY to regulate for ANY load. Just did not like the open barrel configuration. Shot well. Took my 9.3 with 12ga barrels to Africa once but only used the 12ga barrels. I would NOT feel under armed for anything in Africa with a 9.3x74r.

A question about the 9.3X74R - I'm going to Australia next spring to hunt water buffalo. When I told the guide that I'd be bringing a double rifle, and that I had a 9.3, a 450/400, & a .470, he said NOT to bring the 9.3, for he felt that it was a little too light for the water buffalo. It seems routine for water buffalo hunters to use .375 H&H's (and even .338's), so why would I be undergunned if I used the 9.3 ? By the way, he said bring the 450/400; it would be just right, but the .470 would be just to heavy to tote around (the Australian water buffalo is larger than the African Cape buffalo, per Boddington's book "Buffalo"). What's your thoughts ???

I much prefer the SXS to the O/U. While good for the value, I always felt the Valmet were too bulky. They are good guns however, a couple of buddies of mine have owned them.

The Chapuis 9,3 is fairly light but I do not think the recoil is bad at all.

Zimbabwe, I would keep the Merkel 470 and add a 9,3 Chapuis, scoped of course.

The Chapuis 9,3x74R is one of the best hunting guns on the Planet.

I don't like the asthetics of the open-barreled o/u rifles, but they seem to work pretty well. The positives are the immediate second shot, of course, and the negative is the perhaps slower reloading... but a lots of thousands of dollars does make a difference.

Baikals are generally p.o.s., but if they made one in 9.3x74 (easily done since they make them in .30/06), I'd be tempted to buy one at somewhere less than $500 in that caliber just to have (and periodically cuss it). I've had two (in lesser calibers). One was very useful. The other, was about as useful as a tire tool. It is the luck of the draw, or perhaps the amount of vodka the assembler drank that morning??? But for the price, the chance may be one well taken. I'd do it again.

BTW, guess what I'm bringing to the DRSS hunt as my "membership" double

My "new" .404 Jeffery came in the mail today. It was a N.I.B. Winchester Classic Super Grade in .300 Rum. It now wears a new barrel and NECG sights and prints 400 grain Woodleighs in an inch at 2285 fps. I'll bring it to Cooley, too, and have it just to rub some bolt trash in Tony's face. Damn, it's a nice rifle to make that awful "slack... slack... slack... slack" noise to shoot the second shot.

Judge... of all people... to reduce your self to bolt rirfle trash....I do not know what to say...


PS I have 5 gal of tar, and 3 lbs of feathers....

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
PS I have 5 gal of tar, and 3 lbs of feathers....

Blasphemy and witchcraft-Tony, kind of you to furnish your own material when the DRSS shall correct you for the blasers R-93 trash crimes Tar and Feathers will be a great start. I wonder what punishment it would be? Confiscation of all Tony's doubles and sending off the blaser for sale, money from the blaser will be spent on Cohibas and distilled products

Cheers
/JOHAN

The AR/DRSS Blessing:

May God bless us and may our doubles be English, our autos be 1911's, our revolvers be Smiths, our bolt guns be Model 98's, our pump guns be Model 12's.... and our children know our last name (particularly if our wives had them).

And, Dear God, if we fall to temptation, let us never descend into the sin of plastic stocks and stainless steel, even in a Ruger MXII or a Model 70 Classic...

May the false gods of Blaser and Glock melt in the hell where they stirred the plastic brew for their toy guns and the demons once that dwelled in Yugos continue to consume the bean counters at post-64 Winchester and whoever designed the Remington trigger.

Dear God, we know joy. It is the gun room at Champlins and only cost $100,000.00. We know hell. It is embodied in the Model 1300 Winchester. Help us to remember that...

And God, if you know anybody at Hornady, get them to make the .450/.400 ammo in .411 caliber 'cause your humble servant, Butch Searcy, is building me one. (And God, I know Butch ain't English, but he does drink scotch if I pay for it, has a tweed jacket and hates Frenchmen, so he's kind of close.)

Amen.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
The AR/DRSS Blessing:

May God bless us and may our doubles be English, our autos be 1911's, our revolvers be Smiths, our bolt guns be Model 98's, our pump guns be Model 12's.... and our children know our last name (particularly if our wives had them).

And, Dear God, if we fall to temptation, let us never descend into the sin of plastic stocks and stainless steel, even in a Ruger MXII or a Model 70 Classic...

May the false gods of Blaser and Glock melt in the hell where they stirred the plastic brew for their toy guns and the demons once that dwelled in Yugos continue to consume the bean counters at post-64 Winchester and whoever designed the Remington trigger.

Dear God, we know joy. It is the gun room at Champlins and only cost $100,000.00. We know hell. It is embodied in the Model 1300 Winchester. Help us to remember that...

And God, if you know anybody at Hornady, get them to make the .450/.400 ammo in .411 caliber 'cause your humble servant, Butch Searcy, is building me one. (And God, I know Butch ain't English, but he does drink scotch if I pay for it, has a tweed jacket and hates Frenchmen, so he's kind of close.)

Amen.

Gee Judge, I didn't know you was a religious man.

Amen!

quote:

Originally posted by Frank Beller:
he said NOT to bring the 9.3, for he felt that it was a little too light for the water buffalo.

Interesting to say something.....
I have killed those buffs much better with a 9,3x62 than with a 416 Rigby...shot placement is EVERYTHING.

L

FRANK
who ever your out fitter /guide is ....to say your 9.3 is to light for buff is out of place, just take it, and put your shot in the right place, if you screw up on your shot thats a diffrent scenario

daniel

Judge...That is one hell of a prayer

Judge
You are right on, except to clarify that our revolvers be pre safety lock Smiths. I don't hold with mechanical child safety, a switch or paddle works much better.

quote:

I don't like the asthetics of the open-barreled o/u rifles, but they seem to work pretty well

The Finnclassic guns can be fitted with side ribs, removable so the adjustable regulation feature is preserved. The bbl blanks are made by Lothar Walther and the rifling is CUT. Hence their reputation for outstanding accuracy. And one thing I forgot to mention, they are ejector guns in 9.3 cal.

I had an old Valmet that was factory chambered for 375 Win, with a 1-12" twist. I rechambered it for 375 JDJ, regulated it, and permenantly fixed it by soldering ribs between the barrels. It was a fine rifle for North America, but it had a single selective trigger, and at the time double triggers were not available. It shot perfectly, and I killed several elk with that rifle, but IMO, an O/U double rifle is simply a second class citizen, in the double rifle world. I have a couple O/U doubles today, but I rarely even take them out of the safe. They just don't do it for me!

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
However I would not hesitate to go to Africa with multiple buff and elephant on quota and use the 9,3x74R double as my Big Gun.

Those of you who are on a budget, and want to experience hunting with a double rifle, consider a Chapuis 9,3x74R.

For the Dollar spent, there is no better hunting rifle on the Planet.

My only concerns are that not everyone has as much experience as you do with the rounds, and not all PHs will be as willing to let you go below .375.

BUT -- there is no arguing with your results and experience.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:

However I would not hesitate to go to Africa with multiple buff and elephant on quota and use the 9,3x74R double as my Big Gun.

I would not be afraid to hunt ele, buff etc. with a 9.3 x 74, 9.3 x 62 or .375 H&H which all have approximately the same "killing power". However, none of those cartridges would be my first choice for shooting elephant at under 10 yards.

quote:

My only concerns are that not everyone has as much experience as you do with the rounds, and not all PHs will be as willing to let you go below .375.

As I recall the 9.3 X 74R is very close in performance to the .375 H&H flanged.

I know we have to draw the line somewhere but .009 inch?

And a question. Where does one get brass for the 375 flanged?

quote:

Originally posted by duikerman:

As I recall the 9.3 X 74R is very close in performance to the .375 H&H flanged.

I know we have to draw the line somewhere but .009 inch?

And a question. Where does one get brass for the 375 flanged?

The lines do get drawn somewhere, and sometimes for us. Just one example from a website:

quote:

For hunting buffalo, elephant, lion, hippo, or giraffe you have to use a .375 or better.

quote:

Originally posted by Frank Beller:
A question about the 9.3X74R - I'm going to Australia next spring to hunt water buffalo. When I told the guide that I'd be bringing a double rifle, and that I had a 9.3, a 450/400, & a .470, he said NOT to bring the 9.3, for he felt that it was a little too light for the water buffalo. It seems routine for water buffalo hunters to use .375 H&H's (and even .338's), so why would I be undergunned if I used the 9.3 ? By the way, he said bring the 450/400; it would be just right, but the .470 would be just to heavy to tote around (the Australian water buffalo is larger than the African Cape buffalo, per Boddington's book "Buffalo"). What's your thoughts ???

Frank

My Tikka in 9.3x74R killed 14 water buffalo last year plus a large scrub bull. All the buffalo were cows, or not trophy bulls so there is a size difference.

If you wanted to hunt with your .470 I would, my .450 is my double of choice for trophy water buff.

Who is your outfitter? (just out of interest)


***

450no2NE,

Without any experience on elephant, I guess I would hope my .450 with a not perfect ele brain shot might have some stun effect if that happened (but hopefully not the case within a month!).

A bullet in the brain is a bullet in the brain, so what if it misses by a small margin? Probably why chamberings such as a .500 are popular with ele hunters.

NitroX

From what others have told me, it depends on how "not perfect" you not perfect brain shot is.
I would rather have a little less power and be able to make a perfect shot than depend on raw horsepower and just bang away at the head.

For me my 450 No2 seems the perfect compromise between shootability and power.
I would go down to the 450/400 before going up to the 500. The 500 has to long a recovery for me.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
The AR/DRSS Blessing:

May God bless us and may our doubles be English, our autos be 1911's, our revolvers be Smiths, our bolt guns be Model 98's, our pump guns be Model 12's.... and our children know our last name (particularly if our wives had them).

And, Dear God, if we fall to temptation, let us never descend into the sin of plastic stocks and stainless steel, even in a Ruger MXII or a Model 70 Classic...

May the false gods of Blaser and Glock melt in the hell where they stirred the plastic brew for their toy guns and the demons once that dwelled in Yugos continue to consume the bean counters at post-64 Winchester and whoever designed the Remington trigger.

Dear God, we know joy. It is the gun room at Champlins and only cost $100,000.00. We know hell. It is embodied in the Model 1300 Winchester. Help us to remember that...

And God, if you know anybody at Hornady, get them to make the .450/.400 ammo in .411 caliber 'cause your humble servant, Butch Searcy, is building me one. (And God, I know Butch ain't English, but he does drink scotch if I pay for it, has a tweed jacket and hates Frenchmen, so he's kind of close.)

Amen.

Judge, consider this my formal pennance when I plagarize this...I cannot help myself--I certainly couldn't have written it any better!

Many thanks!

friar

I'll be hunting with Simon Kyle-Little; I booked at the DSC show this past January.

There was a time when I, too, believed that shot placement was everything. Then came the day when I put a hot-loaded .404 Jeff Woodleigh bullet up the brisket of the oldest buffalo in Mozambique. It was a perfect shot and the old dagaboy began to bleed copiously from both the mouth and nostrils . . . then he charged! After two more shots, my PH finally spined the beast at 25 yards, about 2 seconds away.

In the event that I hunt buffalo again, and I might, it will be with my .450 Rigby that numbs the black bulls and makes them too sick to fight. Take a 9.3x74 if you want but I'll see your wimpy double and raise you a serious bolt gun. Wah-hey!

Hay, i m a new guy,

Im pleasently surprised that there quite a lot of amercains and co who like double rifles and certainly in the european domestic 9.3 cal.
I have a 9.3 Forgeron (belgian, luik) wich i use on driven hunts. I can assure it has a lot of stopping power but a 200 pound wild boar or a 360 pound red stag under ADRENELINE will run between 50-150 meters. So imagine a 1500 pound buff who lost his sense of humor(considering you did not get a 1 kill shot,which will be i presume most likely the case). And ofcourse the fact tha in some country the lagal minimum is a 375. A 9.3 is enough for killing ele and buff, but the margin of error is verry small,knowing that perfect hunting conditions and perfect bullet placement are rare...As for the caliber for use on watebuffalo, use the biggest you can handle well...(sorry for my bad english)

i remebered Terry Wielands article in rifleshooter:"The 500 grain insurance policy" and that is right for me. The 458 bullets is a superb stopper and it will be it for many years to come.

When I`m going for Dangerous game hunt,in Africa ,Asia, or The Americas, a rifle that has 500 grain bullet will follow me for it.

the 9,3 rounds are fine but in a adrenaline situation there ca be a better reason to have 200 grain more in the hammering round.

I have a lot of disagreements with Terry but when it comes to a prudent approach to hunting DG, he's right! Another gem of his goes something like " . . . whatever else you might be hunting, when in elephant country, carry an elephant rifle." Truer words were never spoken!

The 9.3X74 and the 9.3X62 are classic well designed medium bore african hunting cartrideges. They have a near legendary following in Africa. They will do almost anything that the 375 H&H will do. Saying that, we must realize that they are medium bore cartridges. They are not stopping calibers. Convention holds that to be categorized a stopper the cartridge needs to throw at least a 400 grain bullet at least 2,150 fps. If you feel comfortable going into the jesse with a non-stopper feel free but know what you risk.

465H&H