quote:

Originally posted by ErikD:

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

So you mean you hit the brain(the bullet perferated the brain) and the Elephant ran off? I have never heard of that! I wonder if anyone else has.

I recall reading an article in African Hunter recently where it was stated that elephant brains can be perferated without it having any instant affect. It might depend on which part of the brain is perferated. As the article mentioned, kind of like a lobotomy doesn't (necessarily) kill a human.

I'm not saying the above is true or not, but it might be.

I have heard of humans living after having a bullet or metal rod or other object find its way into the brain. I have always wondered if the same ever happened with an Elephant. I guess it could with a VERY slow bullet.

On the Elephant I killed there was a lot of blood with white fatty tissue flowing out of the ear. I took the white tissue to be brain matter and figured that the shock of the bullet "scrambled" the brains.

I don't know what part of the brain I hit but I have the skull here and have been debating weather to saw it in half to find out.

Jason

...as soon as you get effect on brains like this :

http://forumcine.free.fr/308Gel.swf.html

I dont see any possibilty of recovering...if you dont put it in - it wont work regardless the cal...

JBrown- I never stated that it ran off. Do you read and understand the English language? Yes, my first shot hit the brain - to restate (just for you) - a bit lower than one would consider perfect. It dropped (that is the Ele not the bullet, just to clarify... are you still with me, can you hear me now?) and there was much yaya and smiles then it started to get up. 1, 2, 3, shots to the heart, and a finisher in the side brain and it was over. But I forgot, like most people who believe they are experts after one safari, you have probably shot one Ele on probably one safari in your life, so I digress and allow your infinite wisdom on this subject to educate the rest of us. I merely stated an opinion, I forgot all you other one trip bwanas (I am one also, difference is I know I am not an expert) would disagree. Look up the definition of adequate in the dictionary, I do believe I stated the 375 was just adequate.

Hey guys, cool off.

I shot my Elephant with a .375, 300gr TBSH. Frontal shot went in through the brain and out the back. After examining the skull, I believe the shot went through the very top of the brain cavity. The bull went straight down and rolled on his side. We walked around and I put two more in the body.

BWN

I didn't doubt what you said, I was just a bit surprised. Really, don't get upset if someone wants to discuss something you wrote, this is a discussion board.

Jason

J -
I am not upset. I am merely defending my position on this subject. I always welcome intelligent discussion (I just do not back down). If you would like to discuss, then by all means... If you would like to have another try at sarcasm, then by all means... As for... well, lets just leave well enough alone. Uncle Will is getting mad.

BWN

I am interested to know how you know that your bullet hit the brain. The events you described sound like a near miss(of the Brain) knocked the Ele out.

Guys who have shot about 4,999 more Elephants than you or I(such as Ron Thompson) seem to think any bullet passing through the brain ends the game.

So I guess my question is: did you cut the skull open?

Jason

Last year a Guide, with a bunch of bunny huggers in Chizarira National Park ran into some poachers. One attempted to engage and the guide shot him in the head with a .416 rem.Bullet, Speer AGS. The poacher dropped his rifle and ran away. There was a chunk of brain material the size of my fist on the ground about 8 paces from where he was standing. Police forensics were bought in because parks couldn't believe that the man ran after being shot. His body was fount 70 m away and it had obviously taken him some time to die (the guide recovered the AK and got his clients out and didn't go looking for trouble.)

Brain's are funny things...

I don't belive that a .375 has much knock out effect and BWN's ele went down hard and fast, Back legs then front. I was fairly happy it was all over...and then the ele tried to get up and I discovered that BWN's .375 was actually a belt fed model

Well, if Ganyana's pearls of wisdom aren't enough to shut this down... to hell with it. On to bigger and better things.

Don't know what a belt fed model is, or whether that is suppose to be some sort of humor. But the next thing this thread will start claiming is that the Speer AGS experienced a failure!

Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.


Nuff` said.

BWN

quote:

I always welcome intelligent discussion (I just do not back down). If you would like to discuss, then by all means..

I am not being sarcastic, I just wonder if the bullet only nicked the brain or if it actually punched a hole through the brain.

I don't question Ganyana. If he says it I accept it as fact. He did not say the brain was hit, only that the 375 did not have much knock-out effect on your Elephant.

I would still like to know how it was known that the brain was hit. Was there blood and brain matter coming out of the ears, was the skull cut open, etc?

Jason

Either you cannot... Okay, okay, I am going to keep this civil. What Ganyana's post says is that -
"I don't belive that a .375 has much knock out effect and BWN's ele went down hard and fast, Back legs then front. I was fairly happy it was all over...and then the ele tried to get up..."
See Jason, what he is saying is that he doesn't believe any 375 has much knock down effect. Then what he is saying is that my Ele went down rather quick from the first shot (that was a frontal brain shot if you'll remember). The bullet, according to Ganyana, knicked the brain (my fault, the shot was a little low). Live and learn. The bullet that went thru the front is currently residing, strung from a piece of rawhide, around my neck. I will leave you to wonder how it was recovered.
Now seriously, let us let this go.

Will, a belt-fed model 70 is an inside joke. Ganyana's way of getting back at me for all the hot brass that went down his shirt when the Ele started getting back up.

Will, no way the speer failed. Everyone knows that poachers are not very large brains. That bullet could have went right through the center of the poacher's head and never touched grey matter.

BWN


You know as well as I do that a first Elephant is quite an event. I would not want anyone questioning "my" elephant hunt. I can see that that is what you thought I was doing. It was not.

You never did say if the skull was cut open. As far as the bullet being recovered, you never said where it was found. Often a bullet from a frontal brain shot is found under the skin at the back of the neck. If the bullet was found in the skull it would support one of the theories that I have about your brain shot: That is that the bullet, for whatever reason, lacked the velocity to do much dammage as it passed throug the brain. This "ultra low pass thruogh theory" would be supported if the bullet lacked the energy to exit the skull.

If you look at what I wrote you will see that I am not trying to start a fight or piss you off. I was simply interested in getting the whole story. I can see that I have hit a nerve so I will drop it if you want. But if you would like to give a few more details I would like to read them.

Jason

James Brady was shot in the head and survived, but I forgot whether that was a frontal brain or side brain shot.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
James Brady was shot in the head and survived, but I forgot whether that was a frontal brain or side brain shot.

500grains

I think everyone will call that a NO BRAINER due to all the anti-gun controversy from that one shot!

For those who cannot shoot straight and need to believe in knockdown power ...I was looking at a cow elephants skull in Chabezi Safaris camp. The skull from the cow that tusked PH Kirk Mason a couple of years back.

The client fluffed a frontal brain shot, and then kirk had a missfire, he reloaded and got a shot off with the barrel of his rifle almost touching the cows forehead (the appy rekoned it was touching). The cow had her head so far forward that the bullet actually passed in front of the brain and down into the mouth. I missed the brain by less than 2". Kirk than got a tusk through his side as he tried to run. The cow picked him up by a flap os skin, clobbered him with her trunk and was trying to decide on toss him in the air and swat him for six or scrape him off the tusk and stomp on him when the appy's .375 hit her brain from the side.

What rifle was Kirk using? A .500 Jeffery! With the standard A square load of a 570grn mono at 2300fps.

If you have to get a bullet of that power closer than 2" to the brain to have any effect you might as well have a 9,3 and actually HIT the brain. (except I am convinced that an ele stops quicker and goes down faster if the brain is hit with a bigger, faster bullet)

That is so much hooey! Obviously 2", on this cow, was too much! You can't shoot an elephant in the foot with a 500 or anything else and expect it to fall over.

Exceptions to the rule (my rule!), or anecdotes in this case, do not disprove the rule. All else being equal, horsepower makes a difference. If he had missed the brain with a 9.3 by 2", the same effect? So what's the point?

You can miss an elephant's brain and knock it on its ass. And sometimes it isn't phased.

I'll take horsepower every time.

I have always had good luck with brain shots!