Trying to decide which bullet I want to load for my elephant hunt, the Woodleigh Hydro or the North Fork for my 375H&H. I have used Woodleighs before but always looking for something better. Any suggestions are helpful.

Use whichever one feeds the best and do not fret about the other differences between those two bullets. If you want to fret about something, fret about your choice of a less than optimal caliber for elephant. Will it get the job done, probably, is it optimal, definitely not. A respected PH was killed last week using a .458 Win Mag. With elephant, bigger is better assuming you can shoot it well.

Can't go wrong with NF's. They have great penetration. As Mike commented they need to feed. Any cartridge needs to feed as slow as you can move the bolt and as fast as you can slide the bolt back and forth. If they don't it could get you in trouble.

But hunting elephant with a 375 is as bad as the 9.3's. If it doesn't have 5000 ft-lbf of energy it isn't big enough. And you can't depend on a PH to stop a charge. But guys get by with 375's all the time. Just get your will completed before you leave.

I've seen broken down 458 WM Mod 70's at Chewore North, so that story might have a lot more to it than we've heard.

Anyone who tells you a 375 is good enough for elephants has not shot many with it.

Of course, we know how many great PHs swear by it.

And the number of PHs who have been killed using bigger calibers tells another story.

I can tell you one thing though, side brain shot on elephant you can use whatever you wish, hit them right and they will drop like a sack of potatoes.

On a frontal shot, not one single caliber has the consistent penetration to kill all elephants, of all sizes, from any angle.


Even going to something like the 577 Tyrannosaurus Rex is not a guarantee that it will penetrate.

I know from people who have done it first hand - and had to be rescued by a 375 H&H

I would consider the Hornady DGS.I think you need the flat face to track straight.The NF can give you issues in that it is much longer and takes case volume.I think it would be best to hunt with a double instead.You could hunt all your life with a bolt and get by but you may need that quick second shot just once and save your life and those of others.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Can't go wrong with NF's. They have great penetration. As Mike commented they need to feed. Any cartridge needs to feed as slow as you can move the bolt and as fast as you can slide the bolt back and forth. If they don't it could get you in trouble.

But hunting elephant with a 375 is as bad as the 9.3's. If it doesn't have 5000 ft-lbf of energy it isn't big enough. And you can't depend on a PH to stop a charge. But guys get by with 375's all the time. Just get your will completed before you leave.

I've seen broken down 458 WM Mod 70's at Chewore North, so that story might have a lot more to it than we've heard.

I agree - the .375hh is marginal on elephant. The only way I would use one is if sniping at them from +50yds, but this isn't how I prefer to hunt them.

We used both last year - NF in a 450 3-1/4" and Woodleigh Hydro in a 470. Both performed well. At least one of the NFs recovered from a buffalo was extremely deformed, but it was from an insurance shot through the shoulder and crushed the bone. The NF recovered from an elephant heart shot showed no deformation, but it didn't hit any substantial bone. Only found one Hydro - in the backbone of a buffalo - and it had minimal deformation.

If you're using a .375, which is fine if that's what you're comfortable shooting, load it with 350 grain bullets. NF offers 350 g, not sure about the Hydro. With a 350 grain bullet, you can slow it down some and still have more momentum than a standard 300 grain loading. SD is through the roof.

I like the North Fork. As for the 375 not being enough gun I have shot 2 elephants with mine and they drooped within 50 yards. If you can shoot well with a 375 It is much better than if you flinch with some of the larger ones . It it is all about shot placement. If you can shoot a 458 as well as a 375 go for it. If you cannot shoot well it does not matter. Last elephant I took shoulder shot the bullet a 375 gn barns penetrated to just under the skin on the other side used 70 gns or R15 powder.

John Taylor repeated himself several times but some still resist it. It is not whether a .375 or anything else can kill an elephant it is whether it will drop an elephant with a near miss on the brain.

A 303 British at the hands of poachers kill and wound all sorts of elephants.

But it takes > 5000 ft-lbf to be most likely to knock an elephant out with a near miss.

Of course if you brain an elephant in a charge it does not matter much what you're shooting but if you miss the brain, then what?

Mike and that little short guy unloaded on a charging cow with little effect. Just imagine the lesser effect on a bull.

On a puny charging cow there was a quick succession of a 460 Weatherby and my 470 NE on head shots, followed shortly by a 416 Rigby head shot, with the Rigby finally turning the cow, without even knocking her down or knocking her out. All missed the brain by TOO much.

The fact that a 375 can kill an elephant is completely irrelevant.

I haven't used the Woodleigh Hydro or NF solid out of a 375 but have used both out of a 470 on various elephants, five for the NF and three for the Hydro. They both penetrate as well as the CB#13 and more than the Hornady DGS. It appeared that there was more bone and tissue damage from the Hydro than any of the others. If your 375 will feed them reliably, I would suggest using the 350 grain Hydro if it is available.

465H&H

Two things. You won't go wrong with either bullet, both are far superior to anything that was on the planet a generation ago.
As to choice of caliber, entirely up to you. I have used a 470NE exclusively on ele.
I have confidence in it and I shoot it fairly well.
A 375 H&H is what Harry Manners used exclusively. I asked Richard Harland his opinion, and he told me that as a client's rifle it is fine.
I just prefer something with a bigger hole in the end. I don't think you should agonize over it, just shoot that gives you confidence.

It seems to me that African Elephants have just become super bullet resistant in the last 60 years or so.

My Grandfather and his mates knocked 50 Elephants over in Mozambique during the 50's.

Every single one with a 375 H&H....and I can assure you there were no super duper Woodleigh Hydro's or North Fork doo-daa's around those days - just skill and common sense!


That's the old boy on the bottom right, with his trusty Westley Richards 375H&H in his hands - and those are some of his tusks.

quote:

Originally posted by Bvekenya:
It seems to me that those old African Elephants have just become super bullet resistant in the last 60 years or so.

No, but what has changed in the last 60 years or so is the poaching and other hunting pressures elephant have come under in many areas. As a consequence elephant today, particularly cows, are far more likely to simply lower their heads and come if they sense the presence of man as opposed to stick their tail in the air and run. And when they come, you will want the biggest caliber you can handle.

I agree with Mike & Will on this one,I have only personally shot one smallish Tuskless so far, plus was an observer on two other Tuskless hunts,the 375 will kill no doubt,but if things go south,I sure as hell would not want anything in my hands that delivers less than 5000 ftlbs of energy.
Incidentally we did have a potential charge situation at 20 yrds,but there were four rifles aiming at the cow,a 500,a 470,& two 458 Lotts,needless to say I felt pretty safe.

Whatever you choose, I will guarantee it will feel like a matchstick in your hands when they are near. As Taylor said, "grains vs. tons."

This is the end you get to shoot at if they do come for you......she had her head up. The brush was thick and the shot was close. The stick is layed along the bullet path. Rifle was a 450 Rigby with 500gr Cutting Edge Solids.

quote:

Originally posted by Marty:
Whatever you choose, I will guarantee it will feel like a matchstick in your hands when they are near. As Taylor said, "grains vs. tons."

Exactly what went thru my head the first time I was close enough !!!!

Thanks for all the info. I bought the 375 for my first elephant hunt in '08 thinking it would be a one time thing. That was 6 eles ago and will be going in June for one and have one booked for next year. So much for the one elephant and get it out of my system. I don't shoot a hard kicker well and yes a 375 will kill an elephant but admittedly the margin for error is smaller than a larger caliber. However, even with a bigger caliber it's about shot placement. I've used 300 & 350 gr. Woodleigh FMJ but that's what makes reloading so much fun, studying different bullets and then trying something new.

Awesome, thanks

quote:

Originally posted by Bvekenya:
It seems to me that African Elephants have just become super bullet resistant in the last 60 years or so.

My Grandfather and his mates knocked 50 Elephants over in Mozambique during the 50's.

Every single one with a 375 H&H....and I can assure you there were no super duper Woodleigh Hydro's or North Fork doo-daa's around those days - just skill and common sense!


That's the old boy on the bottom right, with his trusty Westley Richards 375H&H in his hands - and those are some of his tusks.

I e-mailed Woodleigh about the Hdro and they sent me some interesting info

Our H375 x 300 gr will do the job for you. The reason they perform above other flat nosed mono solids is because the nose form was developed from an engineering principle.

The cup nose is part of it, but the concave shoulder is the main working part. This deflects tissue outward from the bullet, creating a bigger than bullet wound channel, and reducing friction on the shank of the bullet, enabling it to penetrate very deeply. I have seen a buffalo’s shot with a 375 hydro which had a hole ¾” through it.

I did a frontal brain on an elephant bull with my 500 nitro, upon dissection, the brain cavity had a 2 ½” exit hole, the bullet was found in his pelvic area
I plan on trying them out on a big bull the end of June.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
I haven't used the Woodleigh Hydro or NF solid out of a 375 but have used both out of a 470 on various elephants, five for the NF and three for the Hydro. They both penetrate as well as the CB#13 and more than the Hornady DGS. It appeared that there was more bone and tissue damage from the Hydro than any of the others. If your 375 will feed them reliably, I would suggest using the 350 grain Hydro if it is available.

465H&H

Only a 300 grainer in 375.

300gr. is what I bought. Woodleigh and Saeed recommended that weight, a little more velocity. We'll see how the elephants like them.

Rob Style of Buffalo Range safaris,who operate matetsi unit 6 in Zimbabwe on the bots border has probably hunted more big bodied ele bulls than any other modern day zim PH and his backup weapon is a battered cogswill and harrison 375(which I think he inherited from his grandfather) which he swears by. The ele bulls in unit 6 come over from bots and are amongst the biggest in zim, significantly larger than the valley bulls.