21" barrel
505 Gibbs
As fast a twist as possible
Pachmeyer flush mount swivels.
limbsaver pad
ghost ring sights -- front sight hooded, and either on a band, or back from the front to protect it.
set trigger, with a good regular pull
"Bull" barreled -- as thick as I can get it.
5 round magazine, drop magazine? -- quick reload.
Thick/strong, magazine walls, to prevent dimpling under recoil.
Laminated black birdseye maple stock.
Black T coated barrel.
Trigger guard "extended" I have some other guns with a similar guard -- can't remember which, but there's an additional piece of metal coming back from the guard which should prevent my finger from getting squashed by the guard
S&B 1.1-4 flashdot
Conetrol mounts, and scope base.

Either pre-64 style action, or mauser action...
Am I missing anything? I'm thinking about trying to have WB Hein build it.

I don't know if the drop-box magazine is a good idea, but it would seem to be the fastest way to reload/switch from solids to softs, or vice versa, if it was needed.

Baby is a "best Quality Stopping rifle" It handles like a dream.
Replicating Baby

The original “Baby†is a very modern heavy rifle, weighing 10½lbs

Started life in Brno (Bohemia) as a "Czech 602"In caliber 375 H&H. this features the best version of the classic Mauser .
Among other things, it mounts a compacted ghost-ring rear-sight which is nowhere else available.
The piece was re-barreled for caliber 460 G&A Special
Restocked in classic Claro walnut.
A five-shot extension magazine was mounted, together with a trigger-guard adaptor.
This work was carried out by Georg Hoenig of Boise, Idaho, and the final assembly is wonderfully satisfying.
Starting a 500-grain bullet from its 22-inch barrel at an acceptable 2300f/s. You can easily raise this to 2400 if you wish

In Jeff Coopers own words--------- the replication of "Baby," my 460 heavy rifle, which has so distinguished itself in Africa, along with its five clones. While I felt that the 460 G&A Special cartridge, designed almost 30 years ago by Tom Siatos, would be awkward to provide, the consensus was that the weapon would have more glamour if it were offered in its original caliber, and that we could make up the ammunition on contract in both Europe and America. The 460 G&A Special seems to provide the best combination of features of any of the current heavy-caliber rifles for dangerous game. Starting a 500-grain, 45-caliber bullet at 2400f/s from a 22-inch barrel is a truly splendid confidence-builder. It has taken many elephant and a score of buffalo with complete consistency, and on two occasions it has killed two buffalo with one shot - inadvertently, of course. Riflemaster John Gannaway once used it to knock an elephant out cold with a head shot that missed the brain. The bullet went clear through the skull to exit into open air, but the concussion of its passage was sufficient to turn off the beast like a light.

The 460 G&A Special cartridge was deemed to be the best choice in a replication of Baby, and the rifle itself will be very nearly identical. It will not employ the 602 action of the original, but rather the Magnum version of the new action designed by Chessbro, and the great good news is that it will feature a modern version of the aperture rear sight previously furnished on ZKK bolt-actions. To my mind, this was the best feature of the whole enterprise, since that rigid, serviceable ghost-ring rear sight was one of the best features to come out of Europe in the post-war era. Insofar as I have any influence, these great new rifles will not be fitted with telescope sights, as such provide not only no advantage on dangerous game, but can in some cases become a positive hazard.

Doyle

Doyle,

Did you get a chance to shoot Baby at the Reunion?

Tom

You all know that Jeff Cooper recently passed on.

Tom,

Doyle and I both got to shoot Baby at Reunion. I have mounted the tip of a Blesbok horn in the mouth of one of the cases, to use as a pipe tamper, and as a memento of of our trip to Africa, and in memory of Col. Cooper.

We shall be posting photos of Baby soon to this thread.

Duane

I look forward to seeing the pictures. I take it the replicas are currently being built/will be built? I still want to stay w. a 505 Gibbs -- thus combining Hemmingway and Cooper -- two of my favorite authors...makes sense to me anyway.

Main downside I see to the 505 is the $15/round -- I'll have to reload, I guess, otherwise practice is going to run up a pretty substantial bill.

Use Enough Gun
We are well aware of the Colonel's passing, he was a very good friend of Doyle's, sargehuf, and myself. Glad you've noted it. Have you read the Colonel's books?

Aglifter
The Colonel appreciated the .505. I was present when Peter Kokalis, who had used a .505 on his buffalo, asked the Colonel about it. The Colonel's response was that the .505 was a great round.

It sounds like your rifle is going to be a very fine DGR. The drop box magazine is a good idea if you are going to switch back and forth from softs to solids. I like to use my DGR on everything so I find myself switching back and forth constantly. A drop box would make that much more convenient. Today's premium softs, especially with the .505's power, just about make the solids obsolete for buffalo. Elephant, of course, are a different matter.

A side note, I just purchased Wieland's book Dangerous Game Rifles and it is supposed to contain some good info on the .505.

Tom

Aglifter,

Col. Cooper was consulting with CZ on the Baby project in 1997. To my knowledge, the project never got past the discussion stage. Doyle's quotes are from the Colonel's desiderata for the rifle. However, the CZ might be a good base rifle from which to craft an approximation of Baby.

Duane

I hope it'll turn out well -- I suspect it's going to take quite a while to have built, which is fine, I'm not in a hurry -- but I think I'll be happy with it. Some of the other members of the forum seemed to have had problems with their CZ in 505, so I'm not sure whether to use them or not -- a plus would be that it's a lot cheaper and easier to find out if I can handle shooting a 505 by buying a CZ than waiting a year+ for a custom gun.

I have not read any of his books as of yet, but I religiously read Cooper's Corner in Guns & Ammo every month for many, many years.

It would seem CZ did listen to Mr. Cooper in that the 450 Rigby with the barrel length and several options available to the customers specs............. But the 458 Lott does it all balistically and runs under a grand........... With an MPI drop box magizene Double X magnum stock or the McMillan Drop box stock it is a 6 shot genral purpose african rifle......... Regulate the express sights to the 500 gr factory or equivalent solids ...Sight the scope for the 350 gr X bullet at 2700 fps.. The Burris and Leupold base ring combos come off and go on well and are easier to keep to keep sighted in than the warn..........................A one gun problem solver......... Just my thots, gumboot out..

Pictures of Baby

And the 458 Lott can shoot 458 win mag, and ammo's pretty available in lots of places... logic isn't very fun, though...

After reading the good Col.'s book, "Firepower" some 25 yrs ago. I came up with my version of "Baby".
A Rem Model 30S in 458 Lott.




Hog Killer

That rifle will certainly fit the bill Hogkiller. I'll bet the book you read was "Fireworks" instead of Firepower.

If you do a search on Jeff Cooper 458 Lott you will find he mentioned it very favorably several times.

He mentioned the following in Cooper's Commentary back in 97:

"News from Ceska Zbrojovka tells us that the excellent reserve rear-sight, which was standard on the Czech 600 series, now discontinued, will be revived in all calibers on their new rifles. They also suggest that the proposed heavy rifle they have in mind ("Jeff Cooper's Baby") should be available in medium as well as heavy calibers. They push for 416 on the proven renewed popularity of this round. For my part I am against it. As I see it, the 416s are halfway measures. If you want real power, you had best go for at least 500-grains of bullet. My own recommendation for this rifle is that it be offered in 458 Lott, 460 G&A, 470 Capstick, and 505 Gibbs. There is a problem in making any wood to stand up to the recoil of a heavy caliber without splitting, but it is certainly not a problem which cannot be solved."


Tom

I have handled Hog Killers 458 Lott.
It is pretty slick... for Bolt Rifle Trash that is.

Tom, I stand correted. Thanks Should have double checked the book case first.

Tony, you are so kind, that I will not mention that on YOUR bolt rifles, the bolts don't turn. Ooooppppps did I just say that.

Hog Killer

I now realize that what I thought was bird's eye maple, is actually burl maple -- I don't know if it's really strong enough to use for a gun, but I think blackened tiger maple might be cool.

T-Russel you know that im a fan of Col.Jeff Cooper ,and i always followed his principles ,his teachings saved my life 3 times in 3 close contacts ,here in Argentina he is very ,very famous ,and some personnel has trained there see for example www.geviar.com ,on respect to rifles i like the 458lott a lot and i used the 505gibbs and the 500jeffery of my good friend jefferydenmark on different creatures from birds to buffalos including hares ,hogs,rams,goats etc most of the rifles where czs one a heym ,the baby format is just perfect ,and the working rifle 505gibbs made for Peter Kokalis is a phs dream ,besides that its syntetic stock doesnt present any problem so common in this rifles .Juan

T-Russel please can you inform me if in the book the ART OF RIFLE is a chapter about heavy rifles,.Juan

Jaun,

The Art of the Rifle does not have a chapter devoted to the heavy, however almost everything written in the book would apply to a heavy rifle's effective use.

I would strongly encourage you to purchase the book. I have taught the curriculum presented in the book to hundreds of students and have used it in Africa on non-danger game in South Africa and dangerous game in Tanzania. It is a very good book and the principles have been amply proven.

Tom

I respect your opinion ,so ill order the book today ,do you recommend me another book .Juan