With all the knowledgeable and experienced posters on this forum, I would like your opinion on what you would do in the following situation;

Recently I bought a used Trail Guns Armory 45/70 double (made by Pedersoli-predecessor of the Kodiak Mk IV double). My intention was to rechamber to 45-120, 450x3.25"NE, or 450 No.2 NE. Rifle weight is 11 pounds, so the weight would be proper for any of the above calibers. My target velocity was to be 2000 fps for a 450 to 480 grain bullet.

The bores were excellent and everything was tight and on face. The rifle had apparently been shot very little.

This afternoon JudgeG came up for a visit, and we went out to the range for a couple of hours to shoot some rifles (both JudgeG's and mine). I had loaded a few rounds of 45/70's in 300 grain, 350 grain, and 405 grain with IMR 3031 at a reasonably brisk velocity, plus having a box of Winchester 300 grain and a box of Buffalo Bore 430 grain lead flat point at 1925 fps that came with the rifle.

Initial groups at 35 yards were from 3/4" to 1" with 300, 350, and 405 grain weights. All groups were very similar, and the only discernable difference was how high they were on the target with the different weights. I was very pleasantly surprised, as I had not expected this level of regulation on a "cheap" double, nor had I expected that all three weights would group so well.

I then moved to 55 yards, and groups ranged from 1 1/4" to 2" for the same loads, and I tried the Buffalo Bore 430 grain at this range as well, with groups being well under 2". These results are obviously without load development, since this was the first time that I had shot this rifle. In all cases there was no "crossing", and the individual barrel groups were on the same horizontal plane, so adjusting the charge weight might tighten groups even more.

Now comes the dilemma........as well as the rifle is shooting now, do I take a chance of spoiling the accuracy of a double rifle that shoots this well by rechambering, or do I leave well enough alone and stay with the 45/70 (decisions, decisions )? What would you do ?

Jim

Stay with the 45/70 and get a .470NE to go with it.

RLI,

I already have other large caliber doubles, but this was to be a less expensive option to take to Africa and to play with at the range. I would hate to see my engraved original Westley Richards 450/400 lost or damaged on the trip over .

I did take my Rodda 450/400, but even though I had it insured, I was very unhappy that it did not get to Harare the same day that I did (it was misplaced at the airport in Joburg ). Even though it showed up the next day I have been hesitant to take another vintage (or expensive current production) double back again. This feeling was reinforced this year when my rifles were lost, and didn't show up for three days after I got to Bulawayo.

With the above in mind, I would feel much better with a $1,600 double than a $7,000 to $15,000 double if something does happen to it on the trip (assuming that I am not hunting something like ele, etc).

Jim

Had a client bring one out rechambered to .450NE. 480grn at 2200fps. Regulated ok and was fine for African Hunting.

Member PWN375 has (had) one rechambered to .45-120. He was happy with it - hopefully he will see this post and Answer- assuming he is not to buissy killing hapless critters or running away from creditors

Ganyana,

The creditors are still searching.

I had one converted to 450 NE #2 and other than having to adjust the sights for a lower point of impact it shot great.
The conversion did not result in a change to regulation and prior to rechambering I found my rifle to hold regulation with a variety of ammo as well. It is worth the $$$ to rechamber if you want a bit more pop than a 45-70 will deliver.

Perry

Perry,

I was hoping that you would respond to this thread, especially since your conversion was the reason that I have been looking for a used Pedersoli for conversion.

What were the before and after group sizes with your rifle?

Would you do it again knowing how your project turned out?

Was your rifle as heavy as the Trail Guns Armory models (11 pounds)?

I know that Mac converted a Trail Guns Armory double to 458 RCBS, but I don't recall what level of accuracy he was getting. Maybe he will chime in as well.

Thanks,
Jim

My advice would be to leave it as-is.

AD

I'm no expert by any means, but if I understand your post you were thinking of taking it to Africa for hunting. So with that in mind, and the distain the 45-70 is held in for that over there go with the rechamber idea,Reading NE's post I understand that the 450 #2 is better for it than the 450 3 1/4"NE, less pressure

Mbogo375:



We discussed this some Sunday night, but here goes a more complete answer:



As you know, I took two English double rifles to Africa this year. I took them knowing that I may lose them. I thought of it like taking the prettiest girl to the dance. Some Don Juan may steal her away, but such is the risk of having possession of true beauty... That, and I believe the dad-gum rifles DESERVE to go to Africa.



Although you'll do it with a broken heart, if the guns are stolen, you can find others with just as much history and flair.



So... Just do it and sell the Pedersoli to me.







My doubles don't rise to the level of W-R or H & H, but they ain't bad.







P.S. I have .450 N. E. reamers available. If that doesn't regulate, just ream it out to #2.

Mbogo,

My rifle shot about the same after the conversion. It would always keep 4 shots under 1.5 inches at 50 yards when it was a 45-70 and typically shot side by side after the conversion to 450 NE #2. It stacked the shots at about 75 yards and showed a bit of crossing at 100. My rifle came with a customized AO receiver sight when I purchased it used. I think that is the best sighting system I have ever seen on a double for close, fast work.

Perry