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Alright, just got out of court. The days results got me thinking what happens when the in the field bush sacking poacher and his gang are busted? From time to time on the African hunting shows we see poachers detained, with th skins, smoked meat, poaching tools, sometimes rhino or elephant horn/tusk. The end these segements are as follows, "They will be brought before some local court." I do have a small soft spot in my heart for some of these guys. Theyspendmonths on in at bush taking heavy risk for nickels on the dollar. Or some fella who bust waterbuck meat to feed his kin. I descended from a long line of neck shooting meat poachers. Not to mention I want to go there and shoot their animals. They they should get to hunt their animals. At the same time, Ivan Carter's Carters War first season had an episode on the illicit bush meat trade as it was practiced in Moz. The thesis was the trade was not tribes men sustaining off local game, but gangs fueling markets in the larger cities. I was more or less convinced. Still and in all, I recognize the plague. We rant all the time about the Asian markets and influence that are employing the gangs. Are these folks slapped and turned lose. Is concentrated nation state law enforcement being applied to them to bust the "real dealers". | ||
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When i was in Cameroon on my unguided portered safari, my trackers and I caught a bushmeat poacher. The 2 trackers beat the crap out of him, then we frog marched him back to camp and threw him in a concrete block shed. It was 100F during the day and God knows how hot the shed was. He was let out in the late afternoon to rake leaves. 2 days later, when we were picked up for transport out, we turned him over to the King of Rey Bouba. Turns out he was the King's chaufer, so he wasn't an unemployed poor villager. I have no idea what happened to him but he paid a stiff price for the kob and trap we caught him with. I claimed his homemade double edged knife/ dagger and my hunting partner claimed his spear. The knife is still my favorite African momento. Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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Once upon a time poachers were dealt with in the bush quickly and quietly. And poaching was only a sporadic problem. Then someone thought it would be a brilliant idea to get the police and government involved just in case the poachers were somehow connected with someone in the government. Then, poaching suddenly proliferated. Now folks are relearning the ways of old. Best to address with problem without a lot of fanfare and police reports; government connections be damned. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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Andrew McLaren Professional Hunter and Hunting Outfitter since 1974. http://www.mclarensafaris.com The home page to go to for custom planning of ethical and affordable hunting of plains game in South Africa! Enquire about any South African hunting directly from andrew@mclarensafaris.com After a few years of participation on forums, I have learned that: One can cure: Lack of knowledge – by instruction. Lack of skills – by practice. Lack of experience – by time doing it. One cannot cure: Stupidity – nothing helps! Anti hunting sentiments – nothing helps! Put-‘n-Take Outfitters – money rules! My very long ago ancestors needed and loved to eat meat. Today I still hunt! | |||
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A garrote made of wire snares works pretty well too plus there's a little circular symmetry and poetic justice to it all. Adds a new meaning to the saying - his work was killing him... ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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What a stupid narrowmined comment! | |||
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It's not a comment, but an observation on what's happening in the field today. Locals are tired of poachers stealing from them. And they are just as tired of inaction and handslaps by the police and government for poaching. So the ways of old are being employed and yes, a few poachers have met their justice with the tools they employ... ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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Are you some kind of psychopath? | |||
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After investigating 12 rhino carcasses, including 2 caves over the past four years (the last one less than three weeks ago) I can say that IF I had caught the poachers in the field, a wire garrote would have been civilized. Now to the tea drinking pinkey in the air types, I am sure that’s ghastly to contemplate, however to those who are engaged in conservation and anti-poaching and those who’s livelihood and existence depends on wildlife, that’s reality. Fortunately, many governments don’t suffer such foolishness and are allowing greater latitude in responses to poaching. So to someone who has no understanding of what's going on in Africa today, I suppose that’s psychopathic, however the guys in the field think I’m pretty much a softy. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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It was more the expressed preference for the garotte in one's recreational killing that gave the impression. An impression I'm sure many of your fellow hunters will appreciate you expressing on this fine hunting and conservation website. | |||
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I was told, by my government scout and in front of my PH, that I was to kill any poacher. I did not intend to kill anyone but I asked him "How much Is the trophy fee"? My PH later told me that this particular government scout had been involved in an ambush wherein 3 poachers had been shot and killed a couple of weeks before I got there. He and I became fast friends and he could track well too. | |||
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I appreciate it, so I guess that makes me a psychopath too. I have zero sympathy for ele and rhino poachers and very damn little for the bushmeat variety. Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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I can't see where you discuss your dispatch method of choice? | |||
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A game scout with whom I had the privilege of sharing many campfires was ambushed by a gang of poachers. His mates found him the following morning and piece by piece his meticulously dismembered body was put into a sack and taken back home. Needless to say those psychopaths were ruthlessly hunted down and I can well envision the fate that befell them Those who do not know the realities of the African bush ought to keep their thoughts to themselves. | |||
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Are you reading my comments as to wisdom of tact on a public forum as sympathy for murderous poachers? | |||
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Some of these people are or could be war veterans who fought a bloody unconventional war the likes one does not want to see and what those poachers did to those Rhino would be meted out to anybody who interferes with their operation. In addition, the ongoing genocide in SA tends to kindle acts of reciprocity in the minds of the same people who have been through it before. Agreed that some of the descriptive comments be better contained, possibly for their own good. | |||
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Shoot, shovel, shut-up. STAY IN THE FIGHT! | |||
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I personally think this is best left to professionals doing a tough and dirty job. The rhino poachers arrested in zim had high quality bolt rifles with scopes that were threaded and has A grade suppressors. They are also using Barnes ammo - including rare barned solids. This is serious business and I would not be shocked if they start whacking off anti poaching guys outside of hunting areas. The solution is simple - breed and trade the damn horn. Mike | |||
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The problem is Mike...there are few professionals to deal with them...and they are often not allowed. But...agree with all the rest of your post. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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I would not recommend any hunter shoot a Poacher in Africa unless in self defence many law enforcemnet officers have found themselves in a heap of trouble when they shoot a poacher that happens to be related to a Army General or politician its not worth a long stretch in an African jail. | |||
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If you shoot a poacher dead in South Africa you will be investigated for murder by the SAPS. Regardless of what you may think re: the level of corruption and oversight in Africa, it hant gone that far in SA. There are rules of engagement for anti poaching patrols and they may only use deadly force when their lives are in danger. Despite what we may think of the scourge of rhino poachers and their gruesome methods, a rhinos life isn't equal to a humans. The anti- hunters make that argument against hunters. We can't have it both ways. IMHO Victor Watson Karoo Wild Safaris Email: info@karoowildsafaris.co.za Cell: (+27) 721894588 www.karoowildsafaris.co.za | |||
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Victor, I am not suggesting that everyone should go out and shoot a poacher - especially a hunter and especially anyone who is not of the dark persuasion. But the locals who are entrusted to protect ele and rhino have resorted to dealing with the problem in the field. Too many poachers wind up in jail (which having food and a bed isn't a bad gig to them) for years only to be released with hardly a hand-slap. Only recently did Namibia change their poaching laws to make poaching a rhino or ele just as serious as poaching a cow. Not the message that many wanted the government to send. So at the end of the day, the level of frustration is being translated to bush justice. In regards to arresting folks for poaching or for dealing with poachers, Namibia is a big country with only a few folks in it filled with lots of sand. Folks can disappear without a trace quite easily (S-S-S). In regards to equating human life with things... if someone is busy stealing your car or breaking into your house at night, do you let them enjoy the bounty of your things or do you end their life? So at the end of the day is human life equal to a 60" TV? The locals view poaching as stealing. An ele is worth almost two hundred thousands Rand to the local community - considerably more value to them than a 60" TV... ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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Opus1: Namibia is a contry we hold up as doing things right. Not just us, but that YouTube cartoon in support of safari hunting focused on Namibia. That they treat poaching of rhino and elephant as poaching cow I assume means the government does not take the crime seriously. The observations of high class rifles, silencers, and Soilds being used underscores organized crime investment. The only way such organizations get broke is by turning and greeting solider a in the inside to cooperate. A major international cartel in the bio tech industry was only broken by an insider who cooperated with the FBI. I guess it was a bad question. It is my understanding that unlike elephant ivory, rhino horn re-grows. It is made up of the same thing that makes up our fingernails. So, you could in theory flood the market with the stuff and maintain a supply of horn without killing stock. Of course, if it was legalized the trade would be so heavily regulated the black market would still have to be utilized to supply the market. This was a bad question. It was not what happens to the poacher in the filed but how law enforcement deals with the poacher who I see as the solider in an organized crime unit engaging in illicit trade like drugs. And like drugs there are folks who make "shake and bake"meth who are fueling their own habit arresting these guys and sending them to prison for 15 years does not affect the trade. They are not in it. Treating a legitimate, sustains meat poacher like a ivory poacher would not be an effective use of limited resources. Ultimately, you can catch and release or even catch and keep the solders all you want, but what is being done to break the cartels when you catch the soldiers. My impression is not much. | |||
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One more observation, I can only speak for KY, but you are most assuredly not allowed to kill someone just for stuff or treaspassing. You can shoot a bulgar in your home because his presence is you will be convicted of at least first degree man slaughter at least as an imperfectself-defense. I am not condemning anything anyone has said, but I submit bush justice will not solve this. | |||
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Bushmeat is a big problem - bigger than most folks appreciate because it doesn't involve the "glamour" species like elephant and rhino. But you have a number of different countries that all inherited different legislation from the colonial days which forms the basis for today's laws. So the official penalty varies with whether the species is protected, specially protected and so on. If the cops and courts are even interested. So often vigilante is the way to go. I once saw a thief in the Congo killed by a mob and the only thing you can do is look the other way. | |||
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A dead poacher is a good poacher ..... | |||
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There are two kinds of bushmeat poachers in Namibia, one who resorts to poaching to avoid starvation. The other is a cane and coke swilling neanderthal driving a new Hilux or Cruiser who is too lazy and/or incapable and/or refuses to pay for game animals. One, you have some degree of compassion for and provide food for them, the other just needs his prized Hilux or Crusier filled will .308 sized holes before he is arrested and goes to jail. Then there are the Himba types who don't fall into either category, but poach only because they like killing things - they have a special place in hell reserved for them. The ele and Rhino poachers are only in it to make $$$$ and they are granted no quarter in the anti-poaching world. Fair game one and all. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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In Texas besides the "Castle Doctrine" we also have a law called "Malicious Mischief At Night". Not that I would do it, but the way the law is written a tagger would be safe during the day but if it's after dark he is in danger of getting capped. I hope and pray that I NEVER have to point a weapon at another human for any reason, but if I do they are going to be fodder for the coroner and not the EMS. "Never, ever, book a hunt with Jeri Booth or Detail Company Adventures" | |||
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. And poaching was only a sporadic problem.