I´ve often read here were hunters claim they pay Trophy fees at the end of their hunt once they are happy with thte final bill. For those who share this philosophy, I have a few questions:

1- Supposedly you only pay trophy fees at the end because you don´t "trust" your PH/outfitter. Why should they trust you?
2- You leave the money with your agent to be release ONLY when you say so. Does this guarantee the ph/outfitter will get his money?
3- Why not pay a trophy fee deposit (say 50 or 70% of total) and then either top-up or use any credit towards settling other incurred costs such as gratuities, trophy shipping etc?

Your "civilised" views/comments appreciated.

Some good questions. Out of an outfitters view point. I only charge for trophies at the end of the trip. I am not a big fan of packaged hunts as hunters very often change their minds once they arrive in Africa. This is particularly true for plainsgame hunts and for first time hunters. With certain species there are no gaurentees that you will get them, like a hunter who have hunted lots of Kudu and is now looking for a 60" Kudu.

Dayfees must be paid in full before arrival. What we must remember, as much as the hunter must trust the outfitter to good hunt, the outfitter must also trust that the hunter must pay him in the end. As much as there are horror stories from hunters, the same stories exist from the outfitters side. The are very seldom told on hunting forums, as it is mostly seen as bitching and the outfitter gets a bad name.

Once you know the hunter and you have build up a relationship it does change in a way, but there are still no real gaurentees.

Theend of the day there must be a lot of trust and the guys on both sides that does not honour the mutual trust will be uncovered one or other time. It is always a sad thing that people on both sides must be ripped of before the culprits are exposed

#1 I have never paid trophy fees up front. I have always paid for game shot at the end of the hunt. I have hunted with a lot of outfits and none have ever wanted trophy fees up front. Some didn't get all their money until after I returned home. I shot more than I had with me!

#2 Well I am an agent and personally I pay my day rate before I leave to hunt. Less to carry around. Some of my clients want me to hold part of their day rate and with the nod from the outfit, I do so. I personally have never ripped an outfitter off on his day fee from any client.

I think, more or less, this is an issue of failing local governments and desire to recover day fees if said government went south and a hunt did not commence.

If it is a trust issue with the outfit, you should find someone else to hunt with.

#3 Most outfits don't guarentee a certain kill on a hunt so banking trophy fees ahead of time with them doesn't seem necessary. I suppose one could do this but really, I don't see why.

If it is for a package deal that is normal. I personally don't like packages for the reasons mentioned by Jaco. But many hunters like them especially first time folks. Package hunts are often reason enough to tempt hunters to go back because they see much more than they anticipated.

Trophy fees should be paid after a hunt if only because niether the hunter nor the ourfitter nor the PH knows what will be taken during a hunt. There may be agreement on a plan, but the targeted critters aren't a party to it.

Day fees are different. Assuming each party is on the up and up, the hunter will spend his time hunting.

I don't begrudge an outfitter wanting the daily rate paid in advance, even if it should be earned by successfully satisfying the hunter through the course of the hunt. Much of the daily rate is eaten up by expenses during the hunt, wther or not the hunt goes well and the client is satisfied.

But see the recent post about an aborted hunt, where the hunter got screwed because the PH had a family problem and didn't find a replacement. Can't imagine that finding an available PH would be any problem this time of year in Zim, BTW.

I like my booking agent, Keith Atcheson of Atcheson and Sons, to hold the trophy fees so I don't need to carry so much cash or (near) equivelent.

Recall that the booking agent is the agent of the outfitter and not the hunter. There needs to be plenty of trust between the agent and the outfitter. Since these two are both in the business 24/7/365, and dealing with each other regarding more than just your safari, trust between these two, developed over time, is a good indicator that each is a square shooter, imo. While an agent for the outfitter, the booking agent cannot tolerate poor or unfair or unscrupulous outfitters since the agent's road to success is paved with customer satisfaction. Likewise, a straight shooting quality outfitter cannot tolerate a poor, unfair or unscupulous agent because the outfitter's road to success is paved with customer satisfaction too. And each needs to be compensated or reimbursed fairly, as the case may be.

Of course there can be problems, like the Sheephunter episode exposed, when an outfitter and booking agent are too close and no longer driven by customer satisfaction.

JPK

I personally think a trophy fee deposit just before the safari is the way to go. Clients really like it because it saves them carrying huge amounts of cash. They can just carry a little traveling and tip money. There is no money exchange at safaris end in Africa. They can settle their bill once they have returned home. I've carried $20,000 before and even in traveler's checks it makes me nervous. If as Ann said a client does not trust the agent or safari company to handle the trophy fee deposit with honesty they probably should be dealing with someone else.

Mark

Sadly, there are a lot more dishonest "clients" than there are dishonest operators.

We hear all the controversies when a client does not get what he thinks he paid for.

On the other hand, we hardly ever hear of the crooked client who goes home owing money and his host never hears from him again.

I remember spending some time reading some of the controversies on the Hunt Report website.

And I am afraid I came back with a rather sad opinion.

There were a few who had what it seems genuine grievances. But most of those who complained had only themselves to blame for what had happened.

Of course there are those who bribed their way up the SCI ladder, and gotten PH Of The Year Awards, just before they made off with hundred of thousands of hunters money, never to be heard from again.

I keep wondering whatever happened to them.

What I really like about Africa is not having to pay trophy fees up front, unlike Canada. If you get your animal, you pay the fee. If you do not get the animal, you do not pay the fee. This makes life simple and clean. You are not out all the fees if no animal is taken. If you see something else you like, go ahead and shoot it, as you will just have to pay the fee (at least in Namibia). I would be somewhat concerned about getting my prepaid trophy fee back from a PH/outfitter at the end of the hunt if I did not get the trophy animal.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
I personally think a trophy fee deposit just before the safari is the way to go. Clients really like it because it saves them carrying huge amounts of cash. They can just carry a little traveling and tip money. There is no money exchange at safaris end in Africa. They can settle their bill once they have returned home. I've carried $20,000 before and even in traveler's checks it makes me nervous. If as Ann said a client does not trust the agent or safari company to handle the trophy fee deposit with honesty they probably should be dealing with someone else.

Mark

I agree. I like to pay mine up front and not have to worry about carrying a bunch of cash, but I also expect this trust to go both ways, if I pay my estimated fees up front and I end up shooting more, I want to pay those fees when I return to the states.

I believe in the interest of BOTH outfitter and hunter this method works well and circumvents the sharks from the equation, not all but Most of them ..

KISS .... Keep It Simple Stupid applies

1) Hunter books and pays a standard deposit prior to arrival / normally 40-50% of the basic package or daily rate fees.

2) Hunter pays the remainder of the daily rate or pack price upon arrival at the ranch.

3) The hunter then heads into the bush and hunts following which and prior to departure from the ranch he pays the specie fees for the animals hunted.

This system is tried and trusted and works well most all of the time.

The hunter will of course not know prior to his arrival or during the hunt if he may fall sick or for any other reason NOT be able to complete the hunt.

Therefore the Hunter must make his own personal trip cancellation insurance cover so that he is not out of pocket if circums5tances beyong his control prevail

Cheers, Peter

Mich,

Actually I think an "esrow account" held by the booking agent in the client's home country probably makes the most sense. Both for the remainder of daily fees that aren't paid at time of signing and trophy fees.

Terms for payment to the outfitter and for refunds can be set out in a simple contract. If there is a dispute there is a contract that all parties agreed to at time of signing and there is leagal recourse for all involved. Wire transfer makes the funds transfer quick and safe and no one has to carry aroung huge amounts of cash.

I think if all concerned would see this as a business transaction, which it really is, everyone would be better off.

Brett

Thanks for all the comments.

My questions were in reference to Trophy fees alone not daily rates which are normally paid in full before the safari starts.

I kinda like Mark Young's idea. It makes plenty sense. How does one decide what the deposit amount is going to be? what's fair?

I have no problem paying them upfront here in the states to an agent. As Mark stated, that keeps you from having to carry so much cash.

I pay everything I think Im going to need ahead of time, Daily Fees and Trophy Fees included. I do this so that I'm not carrying $1,000's in cash. Also if I don't fill my quota, I can have the remaining balance applied to my tip and dip/ship.

Hugh

I do not know about other countries, but at the OR Tambo airport the banks are open 24 hours, or at least everytime I was there they were open. If a client does not want to carry a lot of cash with him, he can make a deposit in my account. At the end of the trip when I drop him off at the airport it is as easy as withdrawing the funds and issue him with travellers cheques that he can pay into his account. There are many ways to to sort out the small logistical hasles. Even if it is travellers cheques, I personally does not like to have too much cash on me. If you loose it, it is a lot of hassles to claim it back.