I'm planning a 2025 Safari in South Africa with Baobab Hunting Safaris for (in order of preference):

Buffalo
Eland
Warthog X 2
Sable
Bushbuck
Red Hartebeest
Porcupine
Waterbuck
Common Springbok
Blesbuck
Common Reedbuck
Impala

I plan to use a 50 B&M with 2 410gr CEB Safari Raptors loaded on top of 2 450gr CEB Safari solids for Buffalo, Eland, Sable, and Waterbuck. The Buffalo because of it's tenacity and the others simply because of their size. The Raptors should devastate and put the animals down, but if they run off the CEB solids have exited on full length going away shots on Buffalo as well as side-on head shots on Elephant. These 2 bullets shoot same POI MOA @ 2305fps with 18" barrel

I plan to use my 376 Steyr with 230gr Peregrine VRG-4 Plains Masters for the lesser critters. This rifle and bullet combination shoots MOA @ 2770fps with 20" barrel

Any thoughts or input please?

Sorry to disappoint you, you need a bigger gun!

I shot everything you have on the list except Buff, Sable and a porcupine on my first safari as well as a ton of stuff not on your list.

I took an 8 mag and an 06. The 8mm hammered my eland, kudu, waterbuck, blue wildebeest and Zebra and I probably would have been fine on every si gel one of them with my 06 and the 165 TSX I used on everything else.


I’m a big fan of big bores and and a huge you do you kinda guy.

That 376 Steyr might be a little much on the smaller animals
You have on your list.

Might I suggest something a little more all around useful in the 06-7x57-270 (please don’t strike me down Elmer Keith for uttering that blasphemy) 6.5x55 range as it will give you a more all around. Rifle for the smaller stuff.


Either way enjoy the trip and put up a hunt report when you get back.

I presume this is your first hunt in Africa and you are relatively young and fit to carry all that weight up the hills? You will have great fun banging away with your super weapons and you will certainly be using enough gun! Who can criticise your choice when you have gone to so much trouble developing loads and buying expensive guns?
Everyone loves shooting big bores but with time, most people conclude that they don't actually NEED anything more than a .375 for Buffalo and perhaps Eland and a .270 for everything else on your list. Assuming you can point the spout in the right general direction, that is!
The light-hearted debate between the Elmer Keith's of this world and the Saeeds who just shoot straight keeps forums like this alive!

quote:

Originally posted by outdooradVIDture:
I'm planning a 2025 Safari in South Africa with Baobab Hunting Safaris for (in order of preference):

Buffalo
Eland
Warthog X 2
Sable
Bushbuck
Red Hartebeest
Porcupine
Waterbuck
Common Springbok
Blesbuck
Common Reedbuck
Impala

I plan to use a 50 B&M with 2 410gr CEB Safari Raptors loaded on top of 2 450gr CEB Safari solids for Buffalo, Eland, Sable, and Waterbuck. The Buffalo because of it's tenacity and the others simply because of their size. The Raptors should devastate and put the animals down, but if they run off the CEB solids have exited on full length going away shots on Buffalo as well as side-on head shots on Elephant. These 2 bullets shoot same POI MOA @ 2305fps with 18" barrel

I plan to use my 376 Steyr with 230gr Peregrine VRG-4 Plains Masters for the lesser critters. This rifle and bullet combination shoots MOA @ 2770fps with 20" barrel

Any thoughts or input please?

Get some 220gr CEB solids or 230gr CEB ESP Raptors and load them as solids for the .376 and see if you can get one of them to shoot to the same POA as the Peregrines. They will leave the porcupine in better condition for taxidermy. Otherwise, you are fine.

For buffalo and plains game I just use my 375 H&H with 300 grain Barnes TSX.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
For buffalo and plains game I just use my 375 H&H with 300 grain Barnes TSX.

You must be a cantankerous old man.

One rifle, one bullet, for everything!

Sound like my twin brother!

quote:

Originally posted by the Pom:
I presume this is your first hunt in Africa and you are relatively young and fit to carry all that weight up the hills? You will have great fun banging away with your super weapons and you will certainly be using enough gun! Who can criticise your choice when you have gone to so much trouble developing loads and buying expensive guns?
Everyone loves shooting big bores but with time, most people conclude that they don't actually NEED anything more than a .375 for Buffalo and perhaps Eland and a .270 for everything else on your list. Assuming you can point the spout in the right general direction, that is!
The light-hearted debate between the Elmer Keith's of this world and the Saeeds who just shoot straight keeps forums like this alive!

Seems someone isn't familiar with the 50 B&M. It's based on a M-70, shortened barrel and stock, down to extremely light weight. The ammo is based on a shortened RUM case, opened to take a .510 bullet.

Developed by Michael458 for the very reason of carrying a small, lightweight, but powerful alternative to traditional rifles and calibers.

Here is a link: https://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/50-bandm

I have just returned from my fifth hunt in Africa ( Zim ). On my first two hunts I took both my .375 H&H and 30.06
Sometime during the first hunt I was discussing best calibre choices for different game with Richard Tabor, then hunting with CMS. His advice was to hunt / shoot everything with only the .375 H&H. Made much sense to me and that is what I have since done and it has served me well. With airline ammo weight restrictions it's reassuring to know the one calibre of ammo you take is certainly adequate. Also, far less hassle getting around airports, vehicles etc. with a slim one rifle case IMO.
And, depending on how a hunt progresses, it's not always a given as to what rifle is best that particular day. Whenever I was unsure I always took the .375 H&H to cover any contingency.

Wishing you a great hunt. Africa is something special.

The beauty of an African safari to the RSA for the above-named critters, ask for advice, consider it, then do what you want. You can't go wrong with the choices you made and those calibers are more than well-suited for what you want to do. Good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by 30.06king:
I have just returned from my fifth hunt in Africa ( Zim ). On my first two hunts I took both my .375 H&H and 30.06
Sometime during the first hunt I was discussing best calibre choices for different game with Richard Tabor, then hunting with CMS. His advice was to hunt / shoot everything with only the .375 H&H. Made much sense to me and that is what I have since done and it has served me well. With airline ammo weight restrictions it's reassuring to know the one calibre of ammo you take is certainly adequate. Also, far less hassle getting around airports, vehicles etc. with a slim one rifle case IMO.
And, depending on how a hunt progresses, it's not always a given as to what rifle is best that particular day. Whenever I was unsure I always took the .375 H&H to cover any contingency.

Wishing you a great hunt. Africa is something special.

Agreed. .375 H&H with Barnes X bullets and some solids if your PH says so and from what I’ve been told by those who know, that’s all you need. In a real pinch there is probably a good camp gun available if need be. Plus, it’s only one rifle to worry about getting lost, one rifle’s worth of ammo to carry through the process, etc.

outdooradVIDture,

As stated…your rifles and ammo are sound as is. Just to keep porky-pig mountable…find a solid that will shoot same POI as your softs for your.376.

I had never heard of a .50 B&M until this thread.

Its ballistics seem anemic for caliber to me.

The .376 Steyr is an ersatz .375 H&H Magnum.

Fine, I suppose.

But why?

As in - why? - as applied to any other ersatz .375 H&H Magnum.

There are more reasons than can be bloody well counted for the status of the .375 H&H Magnum as the best bloody all-around caliber ever taken afield on bloody planet earth.

Hey, but it's every man for himself - in this as in every other sphere of human existence.

But why does everyone want to try to re-invent the already invented and eminently workable mousetrap?

Ah, well.

The .50 B&M was developed by one the best big game hunting caliber ballistiticians of the 21st century…Michael McCourry. He was Michael458 on AR before he quit posting here. It is a quite capable buffalo cartridge. Michael shot and wrote quite a bit about it. It has been around well over a decade. I even see used .50 B&Ms occasionally on Gunbroker.

Thanks, Lane. I had no idea.

But why does this .510 caliber rifle cartridge only use 400-450 grain, low SD bullets?

My .500 A2, the best big fifty on earth, uses 570-600 grain bullets at higher SDs and muzzle velocities.

As I say, the .50 B&M seems anemic for caliber.

But perhaps I have higher expectations of a .510 caliber dangerous game rifle than most.

It shoots like a .375 in recoil but at close range (50 yards or less) it hits much harder. And, with the CEB solid designed for it…penetrates well above enough for elephant.

The B&M cartridge line is what gave us the safari line of Cutting Edge Bullets. Michael developed them for the B&M line up…along with the current design of North Fork solids.

I hear you, but I'm gonna pass.

The 50 B&M is actually .500" not .510" utilizing 18" barrels. It's based on 300 RUM case shortened to 2.240".The CEB Safari Solid has a MV of 2305 with 59" dead straight penetration in wet print media.

Quite right, Todd, I am not familiar with the calibre. Big bore, light rifle, recoil? Cartridge availability in Africa?
I'm with Michael, apart from that shoulder-basher, the 378 Weatherby, all the improvements to the 375 H&H are fine cartridges but the animal is unlikely to know the difference when the 300 grains whack it on the shoulder.
If every cartridge designed in the last hundred years was banned it would not make the slightest difference to the number of animals shot in the world. It might slightly reduce the number of people killed, but perhaps not.

Besides the point what cartridge it is.

It is his choice, and one can hunt with whatever he feels like using.

Ultimately, that is the point of hunting, to enjoy every aspects of it.

I make everything myself, and it gives me, at least, the satisfaction of using my creations.

As Saeed said, his choice. I'd never heard of the .50 B&M either. I'd be comfortable for all those animals with the .376 Steyr, although it's a little light for buffalo. My last two safaris I only carried a .416. Must say I've never shot a porcupine, nor is that likely, but any solid would seem up to the task.

I shoot everything with my 375/404.

Elephant, buffalo lion, geese and spotted chickens.

Works like a charm!

Why waste time gutting guineas when you can use a 375/404?

After 15 trips, a .375 HH and a .270 to .300 WM are all you should use.

Shoot what you handle the best.

Odd calibers or non-traditional guns are not well received in Africa....

quote:

Originally posted by the Pom:
Why waste time gutting guineas when you can use a 375/404?

In Masailand a few years ago, Walter wanted to shoot an ostrich.

Trouble was these things never stop, and generally at a distance.

So we had a discussion where to shoot this bird.

We found some, with a male, but as usual they were on the move and putting more distance between us.

With us trying to keep up with them and maintain visual contact, the bird was miles away.

Alan put the shooting sticks up and started laughing.

Only chance is to shoot it up the rear end.

I thought this worked with buffalo, and should work with over grown chickens.

BANG!

One dead ostrich.

We were lasso much all the way to him.

.

My 2 cents - take what you shoot well with but I would ditch the 'animals in order of pref shopping list' and just live it day by day! We all know the story of someone that passed up on a super XYZ animal because he wanted his eland in the salt first and regretted it on the last day. See what comes, play it by ear and enjoy every minute of it!


.

quote:

Originally posted by outdooradVIDture:
The 50 B&M . . . CEB Safari Solid has a MV of 2305 with 59" dead straight penetration in wet print media.

That should be sufficient!

Even though I have an order of preference, I won't pass up an opportunity for an exceptional animal anywhere on my list. Porcupine is sixth on my list of 12, but I realize someone could hunt Africa a dozen times and not see one.

I will not forsake all others and look for a specific animal in order of my list.

I will insist (I'm sure the PH will as well) we go for Buffalo first and it be my top priority not a "target of opportunity", but again, I would not pass up a trophy while looking for a Buff.

The PH says his favorite client caliber for Buffalo is 416 Rem. He carries a 500 MDM for it's DRT ability. (Also created by B&M). A .500" based on a 375 RUM case and action. It propels a 550gr CEB solid at 2265fps with a 21" barrel.

I'm going to stick with my original choices-50 B&M and 376 Steyr. I've wanted a 50 B&M for nearly 10 years. since long before there was a thought of a Safari. Now it's a perfect choice for Buffalo. The 376 is one of my favorite guns. Short, handles well, shoots great, ballistics are great, another perfect choice.

I appreciate all the responses and input from the forum.

Reminds me of a German hunter years ago in Africa.

He took the order of prefence a bit too far.

He told the PH.

"On Monday vee shoot impala. On Tuesday vee shoot sable. On Wednesday vee shoot kudu. On Thursday vee shoot leopard, on Friday vee shoot buffalo"

Given that I’ve killed everything on your list except the buffalo with a .30-06 and a 7x57, I’m not sure why you feel the need to use the big rifle on the larger plains game… want is different.

Both your choices are adequate for buffalo.

If the idea is having a back up buffalo rifle as the light gun, it will work.

You are hunting in SA, so if your ammo doesn’t show, your outfitter should have plenty of backup guns you can use- but both your choices I predict will not have ammo available there for blood or money.

If your desire is to use your particular gun and load if possible, your choices are fine.

If it’s I will only shoot using my personal gun, then you might be better off getting something commonly available. .375 H&H being the most common.

I don’t think there is a problem with the .50 B&M, but it is an answer to a question I’ve never thought of asking. I’m with Michael in the boat of if I’m shooting over .45, I want north of 500 grains of bullet.

That is a purty light list.

Are you sure that they do not have any thing else to offer.

quote:

Originally posted by outdooradVIDture:
I'm planning a 2025 Safari in South Africa with Baobab Hunting Safaris for (in order of preference):

Buffalo
Eland
Warthog X 2
Sable
Bushbuck
Red Hartebeest
Porcupine
Waterbuck
Common Springbok
Blesbuck
Common Reedbuck
Impala

I plan to use a 50 B&M with 2 410gr CEB Safari Raptors loaded on top of 2 450gr CEB Safari solids for Buffalo, Eland, Sable, and Waterbuck. The Buffalo because of it's tenacity and the others simply because of their size. The Raptors should devastate and put the animals down, but if they run off the CEB solids have exited on full length going away shots on Buffalo as well as side-on head shots on Elephant. These 2 bullets shoot same POI MOA @ 2305fps with 18" barrel

I plan to use my 376 Steyr with 230gr Peregrine VRG-4 Plains Masters for the lesser critters. This rifle and bullet combination shoots MOA @ 2770fps with 20" barrel

Any thoughts or input please?

With the quality of today's "softs" I wouldn't use solids on anything other than elephant or the tiny ten. Just my two cents.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:


I don’t think there is a problem with the .50 B&M, but it is an answer to a question I’ve never thought of asking.

The "question" leading to the development of the B&M rifles is the age old one of having a powerful big bore rifle in a very short, very light and handy rifle. The argument of carrying it more than shooting it. I don't own any of them but unless I'm mistaken, the 50 B&M weighs 6.5 pounds and is 38" in overall length.

I'm a bit surprised more of the posters on this thread haven't read the Terminal Bullet Performance thread here on AR. It's 304 pages long of some very detailed development and testing material. It's pinned as a sticky on top of the Big Bore forum here. Many who have read it consider it the most influential and informative thread ever posted on AR. In this thread, Michael458 and Sam Rose started with development of better performing bullets, leading to design of the B&M line of rifles / calibers, and finally field testing of same on numerous elephant, buffalo, and other critters. It's really worth the read should you be so inclined.

I read the thread you mentioned, and its helped me make some choices on bullet types. I still use traditional DG cartridges but with the best bullets I can get, at least in my opinion.

I would also point out that while a .50 B&M is certainly sufficient, in my mind, its not in the same class (power/penetration wise given similar bullet choices) as a .500 NE or a .505. I don't think it would perform better than a .416 or .404 either.

Again, I don't see the need for it, its a question I haven't thought to ask. If someone else does, great, and I am not casting aspersions on their choice of rifle in that its something that will kill a buffalo and they want to use it.

All of these wildcat cartridges have the issue of they use a relatively unique ammo supply. Some of the more mainstream ones are also hard to find at times- so its not a unique issue.

My comment on the OP is that he is using rare/unusual choices and that he is stating a "need" to use the bigger rifle for game that really doesn't need a large bore. He needs to clarify to himself (not me) why he is choosing to take two large bore wildcat guns. The usual reasons for doing so would not indicate a reason to ask for thoughts/input like he asked.

He doesn't need to justify it to us, but its not a logical choice... more a desire, it appears.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:


I don’t think there is a problem with the .50 B&M, but it is an answer to a question I’ve never thought of asking.

The "question" leading to the development of the B&M rifles is the age old one of having a powerful big bore rifle in a very short, very light and handy rifle. The argument of carrying it more than shooting it. I don't own any of them but unless I'm mistaken, the 50 B&M weighs 6.5 pounds and is 38" in overall length.

I'm a bit surprised more of the posters on this thread haven't read the Terminal Bullet Performance thread here on AR. It's 304 pages long of some very detailed development and testing material. It's pinned as a sticky on top of the Big Bore forum here. Many who have read it consider it the most influential and informative thread ever posted on AR. In this thread, Michael458 and Sam Rose started with development of better performing bullets, leading to design of the B&M line of rifles / calibers, and finally field testing of same on numerous elephant, buffalo, and other critters. It's really worth the read should you be so inclined.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Given that I’ve killed everything on your list except the buffalo with a .30-06 and a 7x57, I’m not sure why you feel the need to use the big rifle on the larger plains game… want is different.

Both your choices are adequate for buffalo.

If the idea is having a back up buffalo rifle as the light gun, it will work.

You are hunting in SA, so if your ammo doesn’t show, your outfitter should have plenty of backup guns you can use- but both your choices I predict will not have ammo available there for blood or money.

If your desire is to use your particular gun and load if possible, your choices are fine.

If it’s I will only shoot using my personal gun, then you might be better off getting something commonly available. .375 H&H being the most common.

I don’t think there is a problem with the .50 B&M, but it is an answer to a question I’ve never thought of asking. I’m with Michael in the boat of if I’m shooting over .45, I want north of 500 grains of bullet.

You mentioned 3 classics and all my rifles are considered classics the 375 H&H is pretty much all you need in Africa.

I downgraded from a 500 to a 404 having spent 30 years realising it it is not so much the weight of the bullet but where you hit them.

I shoot everything from grysbok to elephants with a 416.

If your ammo gets lost, good luck finding replacement ammo. It can and does happen.

Are you only taking weird wildcats? I'm taking a 416 Ruger in '24.

outdoorVIDture,

I don't think anyone has mentioned the issue of the 50B&M having an Ultra Mag headstamp. This could be a dead in the water issue if your ammo is inspected. I was specifically told by the meet/greet folks at ORT not to do it.

I would have your PH check with the ORT police to see if it is a current issue.

Mark

Good Catch Mark,

I have had my ammo checked about 60% of the time.

On my last trip i was asked to have my ammo inspected and every thing matched. The fellow that was traveling along was sweating bullets when he saw that i was having to show my ammo and open up the boxed ammunition to verify that the ammunition in the box was a match with my rifle. Later he said that his ammo did not match his rifle stamping as he was using hand loads and reformed brass.

What ever blows yer skirt up, there is hundreds of correct answers and a million opinions!

I liked a one gun safari for travel thru airports and long stays in Africa and always shot a buff or two..416 Rem or 404 Jefferys worked great on PG and buff, elephant or Hippo, used a lot of solids and cup points..