I was looking at a picture (below) of a lion taken in the Selous that was deemed to be a great trophy, 10 or so years old, and a fine specimen. At a quick glance, however, you would think you were looking at a lioness.
On the other hand, a fully mature lion taken in other parts of TZ, particularly western Tanzania, have stunningly beautiful and full manes.
In your opinion, is there any less of an accomplishment or achievement to take a balded lion (wth all resect to our hairless friends here on AR!)than to bring in one of their hairy brothers found in some other spot?
Also, for those that have hunted the Selous, what is the chance of finding a heavily maned lion when there?

An SCI Gold Medal Selous lion taken in 2001:



A lion taken from outside the Selous (Kizigo, I think) in 2005:

Vic,

I'm not an expert but I don't think a truly mature lion is any less a trophy because of mane quality in my opinion. Having said that I'm still not clear on how relevant mane quality is to maturity. I have an opinion but only that. Joe Coogan and I had a long talk about it and at the end of that conversation I still felt the whole issue was nebulous at most. I do feel though if you saw a lion like the one in your second picture there would be no question as to his maturity or shootability. Also I may be all wet but if we are talking Tanzania and the potential for mane growth I don't think geography is all that important.

I've booked my fourth lion hunt for '07 and I have a picture in my head of what I'm looking for. My picture is closer to your second photo than the first but I'll be satisfied with little less hair. If he is old with broken teeth and many battle scares I'll be even happier. Of course we need to get him on bait first.

Mark

P.S. Now for a more sage opinion. Adam thinks the top lion is very old and at least 8 or more. He also said he had never taken a lion in the Selous that was in as poor condition as the one in the picture. Actually the lions he has taken in the Selous have been quite good. I quess he is well past his prime in mane and body.

Mark

quote:

In your opinion, is there any less of an accomplishment or achievement to take a balded lion (wth all resect to our hairless friends here on AR!)than to bring in one of their hairy brothers found in some other spot?

IMO no! So long as it is an old specimen it is just as exciting, ethical and accomplishing.

quote:

Also, for those that have hunted the Selous, what is the chance of finding a heavily maned lion when there?

Finding a full maned lion like the bottom picture is hard anywhere. In the Selous I would say even harder. I have yet to see a picture of a Selous lion showing a similar mane to that one. The mane hair does get as long but generally won't reach as far back along the body and rarely completes the crown.

An SCI Gold Medal Selous lion taken in 2001:



A lion taken from outside the Selous (Kizigo, I think) in 2005:
[/QUOTE]

quote:

IMO no! So long as it is an old specimen it is just as exciting, ethical and accomplishing.

I would agree with that.

Spring,

I have been on 4 blocks in the Selous in 99' but never saw anything like the second lion. Most were near maneless and some had small collars and short back mains. Mine was somewhat smaller in body size but did have a short mane. Good hunt never-the-less.
For the ultimate lion trophy, i would not look to the Selous.

Dak

I'm no expert on Lions. I do know that I want one bad. I'm told that the Selous Lions generally lack in the mane dept. It will likely take me several years before I can afford the hunt and by that time the cost will have gone up again.
I intened to go the the area that will offer the best chance at getting a lion. My thought is that the hunt will be something that I will likely have the opportunity to do once. I intend to spend the money to get the best opportunity to get a Lion, even if this takes longer to raise the money.
That said I would be most satisfied with the top picture, knowing that this was a free ranging lion. I would be ex-static with the second photo.
Alot of photos have been posted of lions that some here have judged as too young and they would never shoot. Many of those have more hair than the top picture. My bet is that if one of those cats presented itself and the PH said shoot, with 40-60 k on the line, there would be no question.
So with that said Where should I look to. Keep in mind that what is most important to me is a free ranging cat, Not RSA.
Sorry I wasen't trying to hijack the thread

ialmost shot a maneless lion in zambia that was an old timer, all scared up, but passed. a couple years latter i managed a beautiful black maned one from zim. Looking back I think I made a mistake passing up the old guy. He wasn't nearly a beautiful as the other one, but sure did have character. maybe the old saying is right - beauty is only skin deep. I guess that's the mane idea

Assuming lion hunting is still legal by the time I can afford it, I would consider both a trophy. If you worked hard, put in your time, and enjoyed yourself, you should be proud of the lion you take. From the looks of the two pictures, the guy with the bald lion appears to be happier than the guy with the MGM lion. I'd like the second picture lion over the first, but I wouldn't hesitate to shoot either.