Fellas:
When in the Lower 48 last month I ran into a friend I’ve not seen in 40+ years. Turns out he’s an avid hunter and has hunted the US including Alaska, Canada and Mexico extensively. Amazing trophies and adventures he has had. He’s never hunted overseas as he does not fly. I mean not at all since Vietnam. After seeing photos of my trips to Africa he wants to go. The flying issue remains and he may take a cruise to South Africa to begin his adventure. Once in Africa he absolutely will not fly between hunt destinations or countries—everything must be by road.

That said, he wants one trip to take “everything.” The big five and plains game from impala and up size wise. So, I need your suggestions to tell him where to go. He wants a rhino and that is South Africa only (he didn’t specify black or white—possibility both). Elephant in Zim is out due to the non importation issues. Where to go for elephant that is importable? Leopard and buffalo— Zim I imagine is as good as any place. Lion—Zim and Mozambique? SA if not too enclosed.

Plains game? The exotics such as giant eland, mountain nyala and bongo are not considered due to the logistics of going to where they are hunted. For plains game, SA or Zim, maybe Namibia?

Any suggestions are appreciated and will relay the information (he’s not much on computers).
Cheers, gents, and thank you.
Cal

Wow, that’s a tall order without flying.
Sounds like he may have the resources for beaming technology.

quote:

Originally posted by Marty:
Wow, that’s a tall order without flying.
Sounds like he may have the resources for beaming technology.

He can do it, if he has an open cheque book.

And can walk a lot.

Otherwise he should stay home!

Cal, the import for elephant is like the rest now- case by case.

I don't think that SA and Namibia have the only importables now- everyone is in the case by case thing.

If he is going to take his time and spend a better part of a year there... and obviously has a open checkbook...

Land in the Eastern cape, hunt white rhino and the SA unique antelope- blesbok/bontebok/black wildebeest. Drive north to Namibia and shoot the southern desert species. If he really has the bucks, shoot black Rhino there.

Then detour east to Zimbabwe lowvelt for Kudu.

Head to Mozambique for Nyala and whatever pygmy antelope suit his fancy.

Then north to Tanzania for the East African/Masailand stuff.

Then he gets a choice- north to Ethiopia for more specialized plains game and Mt Nyala- (this is a bit of an iffy drive/train ride thru some bad spots between Kenya and Ethiopia) or if he's not interested in the rarer spiral horns, then head to Zambia and shoot his cats there, along with Sable and Roan and some local rarities like the Kafue Flats and Black Lechwe along with the Crawshay's Defassa Waterbuck.

He should take buffalo at each stop.

He also should be able to get a good elephant in SA, Zim, Namibia, Zambia, and maybe Tanzania (if he is willing to pay thru the nose up north...) He should also try to take the cats in Tanzania as well - since money is not an issue

Then from Zambia, south thru Zimbabwe again and shoot whatever he wants as quota cleanup or if he didn't connect on something the first time through then end up in SA for the same.

On his way back, take ship up the African coast and stop in Cameroon for Lord Derby and Bongo, then either north through Chad (western Kudu) through North Africa to Morrocco for boar and then take ship through the med and back on a liner to the US from Europe somewhere.

Or he could shoot everything he wants in SA on the various game farms- the Lion would be one of the wild ones they sell by Kruger ($$$$$) Leopard... can be done in SA if they opened it up again.

Personally, I would get some really good meds and just put up with the plane rides.

Hi Cal. If I was your friend I’d start in SA with Mike Murray, Garry Kelly or one of the many guys that post here on AR and hunt white Rhino + all other species which can’t be found in Zim or Zam. Blesbok, Bontebok, Cape kudu, Cape Bushbuck, Black Wildebeest, Vaal Rhebok, Mountain Reedbuck, Nyala etc, then I’d drive to Zimbabwe, Sango, Save Valley Conservancy and hunt with Thierry Labat the Big 4 + kudu, Livingston’s eland, Waterbuck, Limpopo bushbuck, Giraffe, blue wildebeest, zebra, klipspringer, bushpig etc. The area is full of good quality game and the camp is second to none in Zimbabwe. I’d then drive to Zambia and hunt the Kafue and Luangwa with one of the many good operators there for Sable, Roan, Lechwes, Sitatunga, hippo, croc, puku, Reedbuck, tsessebe, Hartebeest, Oribi, Chobe Bushbuck etc If I wanted more than 1 buff, leopard, lion then I’d hunt one in Zambia too. I would then make my way back to SA via Victoria Falls.

There is no one stop shopping so there will be lots and lots of driving on some very dangerous roads. So not sure that's much of an improvement over flying, but whatever.

As mentioned, he will be on a multi-nation hunt that will most likely span months assuming the animals comply. I would say SA, Namibia and Zim to fill his bag desires.

Hope he has bags full of bucks.

.

My 2 cents- I would contact one top Africa PH to make it happen for me. Hire him and his staff and vehicle for a season and tour SSA Africa with him. He would do all the bookings and logistics and I just deal with 1 top
person.

.

Once on the african continent there is millions of ph and operators to choose from. The challenge here is the logistics. 40 years ago one could hire on boat but international rules turned this over. As I see it if your friend truly doesn't wanna fly but going with boat only, hunt a full bag free ranging game there are only a few choices left....sail to Dar Es Salam, Tanzania or Maputo ,Mozambique. All other ports are either unsafe or contries where a full bag simply isn't there.

The bulk of the big 5 could be done in Namibia and a huge dent put in the plainsgame there also. As said above this will not be cheap but start in the Caprivi work across the country. Talk with Jamy Traut. Would have to be 30 days there but a full bag(relatively speaking) could be done.

I would start in Namibia and hunt elephant and plains game there including Buff and Red Lechwe on the Caprivi. Take a break at the Falls and move across Zambia for Lion, Leopard, Sable, Roan and the Kafue and Black Lechwe and Sitatunga. Hunt some choice animals in Mozambique such as Nyala and exit the East coast. Use the more noted PHs to conduct the in country safaris.

Cal, does your friend believe in the Tooth Fairy, Santa Clause, etc.

He's got a pretty good fairy tale going with this inquiry.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Cal, does your friend believe in the Tooth Fairy, Santa Clause, etc.

He's got a pretty good fairy tale going with this inquiry.

All you need to know is he is Cal’s friend!

That alone tells you he is living in a village not far from Bedrock!

I know of someone with a similar syndrome; she was one of the surviving passengers of a deadly crash on takeoff from Nairobi in 1974 and from that day cannot fly as any normal passenger.

If she wants to move around the continents by air, she has to be accompanied by a paramedic who sedates her before leaving home then once boarded, knocks her out until they reach their destination.

Might be an option for Cal's friend.

Gentlemen:
Your information is much appreciated and passed along this am. I look forward to additional replies as your suggestions certianlly added to my knowledge and opinions as to what to do and where to go.

Todd: No fairy tale. Just a gent who wants to hunt but hates flying.

Saeed: As always your contributions are welcomed.
Cheers, gents.
Cal

I hate to stomp on a guys dreams...but!

A first timer to Africa is going to spend 30 (or more like 50-60) days traveling around Africa to at least 3 different Countries and attempt to take a Full Bag, +PG? The logistics of that gives me a headache and your friend better have the patience of a Saint. Not to mention that he won't be flying to get there or back....

If he pulls it off I'll come here and beg for forgiveness. I wish him all the best, but if you care about your friend I think he needs some "truth time"

I don't know if this is as difficult as some say. OK, the trip over via cruise ship I'm sure is done on a regular basis for tourists and those who like to take cruises. I've thought about a crusie over just for the experience.

If the hunting was done in SA, Namibia, and Zim and/or Zam., it is no more than 2-3 days driving between destinations. When I arrive in Africa i prefer to drive to the hunt camp rather than fly as I enjoy seeing the people and the geography.

For this type of hunt the central and northern Africa destinations would be off limits without flying. That's why I said bongo, etc., would not be a consideration. Kept to southern Africa, it seems very doable to me.

As a side bar, traveling with guns on a cruise ship should be fine as some cruises offer clays shooting and instruction.

Cal

I'll put on my "optimist hat" and give it some thought...but even giving the benefit of the doubt on every aspect of the adventure I simply can't see it.

This is Africa...optimists need not apply.

Cal, here is your friends passage to Africa from the US:

http://traveltips.usatoday.com...el-africa-22743.html

From here, if he provides Thierry with a base budget of say $500,000, I am sure Thierry could organize and accompany him on a fantastic 4-6 month multi-country hunt. Might I suggest a new kitted Cruiser as a partial tip.

First stop......the bank.

Sounds like a big adventure but a tall order. My suggestion is to contract with a well connected free lance PH that is licensed in multiple countries. Have that PH with you for the entire journey. When I retired in 2011 I hooked up with my friend Andy Hunter and we headed to Chewore South. Hunted Buff, tuskless elephant, lion, plainsgame and could have easily added leopard After 2 full weeks of hunting my wife and I drove with him across Zim to Vic Falls for some relaxation and re supply. We then crossed into Botswana to hunt bull elephant in the Chobe area NG 42. We did a lot of driving and the entire trip was awesome. Thats a lot of traveling so its important to find a PH guide that is someone you enjoy spending time with. An expanded version of this hunt starting in South Africa would do the trick. Wish I could do it again!!

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
I don't know if this is as difficult as some say. OK, the trip over via cruise ship I'm sure is done on a regular basis for tourists and those who like to take cruises. I've thought about a crusie over just for the experience.

If the hunting was done in SA, Namibia, and Zim and/or Zam., it is no more than 2-3 days driving between destinations. When I arrive in Africa i prefer to drive to the hunt camp rather than fly as I enjoy seeing the people and the geography.

For this type of hunt the central and northern Africa destinations would be off limits without flying. That's why I said bongo, etc., would not be a consideration. Kept to southern Africa, it seems very doable to me.

As a side bar, traveling with guns on a cruise ship should be fine as some cruises offer clays shooting and instruction.

Cal

Cal,

in 2006 i tried to travel from Europe to North America on a passenger cruise ship with hunting firearms and it was a big no no.

the only way to get the firearms was for them to fly ... international maritimes rules.

Cal,

Given 8-9 weeks and some good planning I'm sure what your friend's wants could be accomplished. 35 days in Zambia on the Luangwa and Kafue combined would be as close to a slam dunk on lion, leopard, buffalo, hippo, croc, roan, sable, tsessbe, puku, Cookson's wildebeest and both lechwe plus sitatunga as there is in Africa. 14 days in Zim in the right area should produce a good elephant and with the bag to include kudu, eland, bushbuck and the more common species. RSA would be the place for the rhino and I bet it could be done in 3 day with the remainder of time spent in the Cape collecting another 10 or so species. I didn't add in Tanzania just because of the time. 8-9 weeks in Africa would be along time. I've stayed as long as 40 days on safari in two countries and with 3 operators. As wonderful as it was I was ready to go home at safari's end.

The driving would not be an issue between these three countries with all the proper documents etc. I do think sea travel is an issue if he wanted to bring his own guns as has been suggested. If having his own guns doesn't matter he can rent rifles.

Mark

So, it looks like a 10+ day trip by ocean freight to Africa...most likely to Cape Town. Now...how long of a drive from Cape Town to the Luangwa Valley?

If money is not a constraint, how about Ethiopia for Lesser Kudu, Grants gazelle, black leopard.

Let him not pass up the lesser critters like caracal, serval, honey badger etc.

Add a few days of sand grouse & guinea fowl shooting and some tiger fishing.

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
Now...how long of a drive from Cape Town to the Luangwa Valley?

40 hours.

First, send a blank check to Andrew Baldry for thirty days in Royal Kafue with quota for everything, might as well get trespass rights across the river too. The dates on this will be what the entire trip revolves around.

Forget taking guns, use camp rifles.

Arrive in SA a week or ten days before Andrew is ready. Buy or lease a Hilux or Land Rover, preferably with guide/driver, and head for Zambia. When done there head south to Zimbabwe to meet up with Thierry Labat for a month, then back to SA to see Infinito to fill out the bag. If he bought his ride go back to port and sell it and head home.

By “head home” he means back on a cargo ship for 10-12 days.

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
By “head home” he means back on a cargo ship for 10-12 days.

If you're going to Africa and back without flying you ain't pressed for time.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
By “head home” he means back on a cargo ship for 10-12 days.

If you're going to Africa and back without flying you ain't pressed for time.

I think it’s the sum total of cargo ships days and land cruiser days on African roads that amuses me to no end. It’s not that I don’t want the guy to give it a go. I’m just thinking there are better ways. Someone mentioned being sedated for the flights.

Gents:
A continued thank you for all the ideas. It will take some time to put all this together but I imagine 2020 will be the year if health holds out. I may go along for the ride, too. I love driving Africa!
Again, your comments are appreciated.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
By “head home” he means back on a cargo ship for 10-12 days.

If you're going to Africa and back without flying you ain't pressed for time.

I think it’s the sum total of cargo ships days and land cruiser days on African roads that amuses me to no end. It’s not that I don’t want the guy to give it a go. I’m just thinking there are better ways. Someone mentioned being sedated for the flights.

If he needs an absolute rookie along for company and to split the driving I'll carve out three months.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Gents:
A continued thank you for all the ideas. It will take some time to put all this together but I imagine 2020 will be the year if health holds out. I may go along for the ride, too. I love driving Africa!
Again, your comments are appreciated.
Cal

I think someone seasoned going along is just what the Gent needs...a guiding hand can make all the difference when the going gets tough and an adventure like that there will be tough times.

Cal I had a similar request from a friend. Here is what I have done in the past. Japsie Blau can do Caprivi and Khaudom elelphant and also rhino in either Namibia or SA Greater Kruger. Or elephant. Also does lion and leopard. I would also recommend highly BVC as part of the trip . I ve used Brent Hein and I m doing my third trip with him next year. You can drive easily between Carivi and BVC and if need be from BVC to Greater KP. I m also doing Greater KP next year with John Luyt in Klaserie after BVC but flying. Hope that helps.

What needs to be understood by these folks is, not all animals anywhere. Two kind of Oryx in Kenya, I know you can't hunt there, and other game that's only found here or there. Needs to decide what he wants and then decide where to go, and have helpful folks like y'all direct him. I've tried to explain to folks who don't know, that theres like 190 different animals in Africa, only about 20 of them as big or bigger than a Mule deer. But a lot of folks think they all are, and I've seen comments by folks of "who'd want to shoot something like that" meaning a Steenbok or some other smaller animal. Also, don't necessarily know that everyone wants an elephant, or rhino etc. So they need to get a book on African wildlife and decide what they want. Then decide where to go.

Just noticed the remark about taking as ship. Todays ships go to places like S. Africa etc a whole lot quicker than they used to. Just like planes do. First time I went over took 2 days or so, and now can be there from Dulles in 16 hours. A ship ride might relax him a great deal.

One thing is for sure, if he has to travel through several countries, with firearms, he is going to have a nightmare.

I have a friend who hated flying, he had a house in England, and wanted to spend the summer there.

He bought himself a Mercedes limo, and used it to drive all the way to England for a number of years.

Eventually he gave up, as he said he was being hassled at border checkpoints to the extent that he decided flying is much easier.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
One thing is for sure, if he has to travel through several countries, with firearms, he is going to have a nightmare.

I have a friend who hated flying, he had a house in England, and wanted to spend the summer there.

He bought himself a Mercedes limo, and used it to drive all the way to England for a number of years.

Eventually he gave up, as he said he was being hassled at border checkpoints to the extent that he decided flying is much easier.

LOL Saeed.

Yep, one trip through the Beitbridge border checkpoint between RSA and Zim and he will develop a whole new appreciation for airplanes!!!

Sounds like fun. I wish I had the time and money to attempt a hunt like that. Kind of like old time safaris. I wish your friend well, I think he can do it if he hires the right PH.

Dear Cal pappas

I've seen your post on AR.

I'm the Owner of Mangwa Hunting Safaris and we are based in the Limpopo Province in South Africa.
We conduct cross border hunts to the following Countries, Namibia, Zimbabwe and Mozambique.

We at Mangwa Hunting Safaris have it all to accommodate this friend of yours and he will be so happy to be hunting with us at Mangwa Hunting Safaris.

Cal pappas, please email me at mangwahunting@gmail.com for more details if you have any questions please let me know and I will answer them ASAP.

Hope to hear from you soon

Regards
Jacques Brits
Mangwa Hunting Safaris
South Africa, Botswana, Namibia, Mozambique and Zimbabwe
Email: mangwahunting@gmail.com
Website: www.mangwahuntingsafaris.com
Phone: +27 767 680 412

Message sent to you Cal pappas

Regards
Jacques Brits
Mangwa Hunting Safaris