Gentlemen

I was reading about Hermann G�rings rifle made by Berlin Gunsmith Ludwig Schiwy whom made several rifles for G�ring.

One of the rifles was a 9,3X70 Magnum based on the .404 Jeffery.
This rifle has a most unusual feature where two ajustable spring loaded spikes can be extended and gently pushed into a tree trunk to assist in holding the rifle absolutely steady.

I have never needed such a feature to hunt in Europe or Afruca for that matter , but I find it rather interesting and would like to hear your wiew on the matter.

http://www.hataritimes.com/e/index_e.html
Go to 9,3X70 magnum to read the article.

Cheers,

Andr�

Georings shotgun, or one of them, was auctioned by Bonhams a couple of years ago. I went and had a play with it. All I can remember is that it had a very short length of pull.

Cheerio

Those side spikes could come in handy for timber hunting. I have made do with just bracing my hand, cushioned by my hat, against the tree trunk.

I have to wonder if anchoring the rifle with a spike would affect accuracy, change POI, for an unhurried, long range, deliberate shot, which is the only time you could deploy the spike?

That 9.3x70 is similar to Saeed's .375/404, but would need a 9.5mm bullet to be even closer.

The 9.5x73 Miller-Greiss Magnum of circa 1910-1920 is a 404 Jeffery necked down to .375.

This appears to be evidence that the Germans were trying to compete with the British .375 H&H.

Maybe the .404 Jeffery really did start off in England as early as 1905 (well advertised by 1910), and the 10.75x73 is just the metric copy of the British invention, the .404 Jeffery. Long live the Queen!

The truth of the matter is the Europeans (Germany for the most part) have a habit of over-engeneering rifles, have since the beginning of time, not to say that they have not made some of the greatest advancments in firearms history..I mean they invented the Mod 98 Mauser for goodness sakes...

I have seen some really atrocious stuff come out of Europe, remember the iron sighted stock with the adjustable comb that popped up for a scope, sometimes recoil popped that one up!! Then the neat little grip safety the flipped up the iron sights. cute but had not practical value but I near wore one out playing with it, great stuff but about as practical as tits on a boar hog...Then there is the scopes, they still havn't got that right, they are big, bulky, clumsy, and heavy..They have some terrible reticles, but a lot of that is supposedly for shooting at night from blinds I suppose and then they probably work pretty good, but not for me...

Some interresting stuff has come from Europe over the years, some of it is facinating, some comical, and some the best the world has to offer....the spikes fall under comical and I hope noone falls on them and bleeds to death. .

They might be useful for the "one-armed man" hunting in dense forests.
Otherwise, they might change the POI and blow your zero if you zeroed without your spike buried in a tree.
Comical? Yes!

Johan,
"The Queen" refers to the .404 Jeffery, not the Windsor.

I would like nothing better than for someone to prove that the Germans invented the 10.75x73 Mauser, identical to the .404 Jeffery except headstamp, and did not just adopt and rename the Jeffery creation, which was a non-proprietary release to the trade by Jeffery, supposedly.

In other words, I would like for someone to prove that the pommies stole the 10.75x73 Mauser cartridge design and renamed it ".404 Jeffery." That would warm my heart.

I have not seen this proof anywhere yet, but I am still looking.

.

Alf,

I don't have access to all the reference material and actual hardware observations and discussions that you have had.



I'll take your word for it, you being as good an authority as I know of. And the general consensus seems to be that Jeffery was the originator, by its most common designation as the ".404 Jeffery."



Maybe the only way the Germans were involved in the origins of the .404 Jeffery was by the borrowing of the .423 caliber, 10.75mm bullet from them?



Long live The Queen!

If ordering a .404 Jeff reamer, I have heard that one should actually specify "10.75x73" in order to assure chamber compliance with available factory ammo. Is this correct?

Arts,
That will work. Of course you will want to have your barrel engraved ".404 Jeffery" and use a reamer that is cut to CIP specs for the 10.75x73 Mauser.

Dave Manson is aware of this and if you order a .404 Jeffery reamer and headspace guage from him, you get one that is identical to the 10.75x73 Mauser.