Got an E Mail today from an TZ Hunting Operator with huge changes on Licenses, Fees, Elephant Hunting Regulation etc.


Gov. Changes effective for 2008 Hunting Season

- NO more 7 days Hunting Licenses Minimum are 10 day Licenses with aditional Plainsgame like Reedbuck, Baboon etc..

- Elephant on 21 days License the Ivory MINIMUM is 30IBS or 150cm !!!
Trophy Fees 30-60IBS $ 7500.- , 61-80IBS $12000.- , over 80IBS $ 12000.-

Hunting License: 21 days $ 1250.- 10days License $ 950.-

There also Changes with the Conservation Fees 21days $ 3150.- 10days $ 1500.-




TANZANIA TROPHY FEES 2008

baboon 110,00
1st buffalo 1.900,00
2nd buffalo 1.900,00
3rd buffalo 1.900,00
bushbuck 600,00
bushpig 420,00
caracal 150,00
crocodile 1.800,00
civet cat 250,00
dik dik 250,00
duiker 250,00
eland 1.700,00
elephant 30lbs - 60 lbs 7.500,00
elephant 61lbs - 80 lbs 12.000,00
elephant over 80 lbs 20.000,00
gazelle grant's 450,00
gazelle thompson 500,00
genet 250,00
gerenuk 2.500,00
hartebeest 650,00
hippo 1.500,00
honeybadger 300,00
hyaena 300,00
tree hyrax 200,00
impala 400,00
jackal 250,00
klippspringer 950,00
kudu greater 2.200,00
kudu lesser 2.500,00
leopard 3.500,00
lion 4.900,00


fox 250,00
oribi 250,00
oryx 2.800,00
ostrich 1.200,00
otter 170,00
puku 400,00
porcupine 150,00
reedbuck 450,00
roan 2.550,00
sable 2.550,00
serval cat 300,00
sitatunga 2.000,00
steinbuck 250,00
sharpe's grysbok 180,00
suni antelope 250,00
topi 800,00
warthog 450,00
waterbuck 800,00
wildebeest 500,00
wild cat 250,00
zebra 1.200,00
zorilla 250,00
grysbok 350,00
GAME BIRDS
ducks 30
geese 30
guineafowl 30
francolin 20
sandgrouse 20
doves & pigeon 30

IMO this are unexpected huge Changes the Number of Hunter will Drop



Seloushunter

Is this fixed in writing or is this talk to be happening ?
It however looks better before the first talk of the price increase. Still not great though.

TZ Goverment CONFIRMED !!!

Seloushunter

I'm assuming the Concession fee changes will have the biggest effect as that is what affects the day fees?

I'm not familiar wth the previous trophy fees, so perhaps I'm wrong but does someone have the old costs, or perhaps a percentage increase on the trophy costs?

So what does a full bag 21day jaunt come to now then?

Rgds,
FB

That information as posted is incomplete and contains at least one typo error ....... but more to the point, it is NOT Government confirmed until the relevant Government Notice is issued, and when it is, all the info will be on it. Until that happens, it's not much than chinese whispers.

Although the info is incomplete, it is mostly correct as far as it goes, but let's wait until the notice is published in it's entirety.....

Also bear in mind that even then, the prices will be Government prices and don't allow for other factors such as profit margins and running costs etc etc.

As to whether number of hunters will drop, time will tell, but I know of at least 4 or 5 large companies that are either fully booked already for 2008 or almost so.

Chill out guys...... Things are never as bad as they first might seem

Gentlemen,
The Government HAS NOT issued a written notice showing the NEW fees. Until then, the above cannot be taken as fact.

Let us stay calm while we wait for the final Gov statement. It should be out tomorrow as promised.

One of the few upsides is maybe outfitters will now allow more game on a 10 day safari. Meaning purchase a longer license for a shorter booked hunt. It's one thing I was never happy about when comparing TZ to the south. The south was more "pay as you go" with the hunt negotiable between the client and safari co.

I've heard directly from PHs mouths that the TZ way is the way it SHOULD be, if you want the nicer antelope for example you have take out a license for (nominal $$) AND book a 21 day ($$) hunt at DG day rate. I was also unhappy about the mystery surrounding the old 16 day license. No one, and I talked to quite a few, was allowing the option of say a 10 day safari on a 16 day license in order to get say a hippo.

I don't recall exactly if this license was 14 or 16 day and it didn't have that many more species on it but there were a few, specifically like one I wanted like the hippo. It didn't include kudu though, as I recall, so it wasn't perfect (for me) but it was better than 7-10 with buff, zebra and a couple lesser antelope.

What I am most curious/concerned about is after all this shakes out - with concession fee increases and operator mark-up on the gov't trophy fees - what will the all-in cost be for the good-old 10-day 2-buffalo 1x1 hunt in someplace like the Selous.

I suspect the guys that are able to pay $50K to $100K are going to continue paying $70K-$120K to hunt Tanzania, at least in the top areas (the lesser concessions are probably in trouble). Maybe not the SAME guys, but enough.

Showbart,

Regarding your point of hunting fewer days on a longer licence. I'm suprised to hear you had problems finding anyone to offer this. We do and so do most of the other companies I know. I hunted with 3 or 4 clients who chose this option this year and we already have a number of similar bookings for 2008 & 2009.

Bill C,

I don't know all the exact details yet, but do know most of them and assuming the Government Notice says what it's expected to say, I'd bet that bookings won't drop much.... except perhaps at the very bottom end, which may not be an entirely bad thing for all parties concerned. - Although that said, the falling dollar might possibly mean fewer Americans and more Brits, Euros, Aussies and Kiwis etc.

Boy am I glad they have no trophy fees on snakes...


Mike

YET!!!

Can someone provide a link or let me know what additional species would be available on a 10 day license instead of the old 7 day? Original post indicates Reedbuck and baboon I think. Any others?

Sure glad that Saeed makes his journey ever year. At least we can live a hunt in Tanzania through him and Walter. . .

A Moz. OR Zim. buff hunt is looking better and better all the time, especially when you consider that croc, hippo, and sable can be added on for the costs of trophy fees and perhaps 3 more hunting days tacked on.

Well, guess I won't be going to Tanzania in the near future. Any outfit that wants to charge me $30 for shooting a dove, ain't getting any of my money. Somehow, I think I'm getting screwed, and I don't like it.

TJ,
There are 2 ways to look at this;
1- Every Big Game license has a 5 of each species of birds listed on it. You shoot any of those and you pay the "trophy fee" stated above
2- You buy a "Bird License" for $200 plus $100 p.d. additional Conservation fee, for each day you want to shoot and you can shoot 50 birds per day with no Trophy fees. So if you take this license out for 3 days, it costs you $500 in Gov fees, you can shoot 150 doves and they come to $4 per bird

AND HERE IT IS. (Some slight changes from the first post)

Dear Executive Committee Members, all TAHOA Members and other Hunting Companies,

This is to inform all the members that in recognition of government efforts for Conservation of Wildlife and poverty alleviation, Public & Private Sector partnership, it is recognised that the industry has to contribute significant revenue to the government. After long consultations between the public sector on one hand represented by the Minister of Natural Resources and Tourism and the Wildlife Division officials on one side and the private sector represented by The Chairman of Tahoa Mr. Gerald Pasanisi, Vice Chairman Mr. Mohsin Abdallah (SHENI), The Secreatry General Mr. Mohamed and other Executive committee members the final 2008 government fees have now been confirmed. TAHOA has been given a go ahead by the Honourable Minister of Natural Resources and Tourism Hon. Professor Jumanne Maghembe to advise its members and other hunting companies to use the attached fees for marketing for the year 2008.

On behalf of the Chairman and the Executive committee, I wish you all MERRY CHRISTMAS & a HAPPY & PROSPEROUS 2008 Season.

Thanking you,
Yours sincerely

Mohsin M. Abdallah (SHENI)
VICE CHAIRMAN

FEES PAYABLE IN TOURIST HUNTING FOR THE YEAR 2008

A. GAME FEES FOR THE YEAR 2008
S/N Species Fees USD
1 Elephant - 15kg (33Lbs)/1.5m 7,500
Elephant - 27kg (60 Lbs) 12,000
Elephant - 32kg (80 Lbs) 20,000
2 Baboon 110
3 Buffalo 1,900
4 Bushbuck 600
5 Bushpig 420
6 Caracal 150
7 Civet Cat 200
8 Crocodile 1,700
9 Dik Dik 250
10 Duiker Abbot's 280
11 Duiker Common 280
12 Eland 1,700
13 Fox 250
14 Genet 250
15 Gerenuk 2,500
16 Grant's Gazelle 450
17 Greater Kudu 2,200
18 Grysbok 350
19 Hartebeest 650
20 Hippopotamus 1,500
21 Hyena 550
22 Impala 390
23 Jackal 250
24 Klipspringer 1,200
25 Leopard 3,500
26 Lesser Kudu 2,600
27 Lion 4,900
28 Oribi 250
29 Oryx 2,800
30 Ostrich 1,200
31 Porcupine 150
32 Puku 800
33 Ratel ( Honey Badger) 300
34 Reedbuck Southern 450
35 Reedbuck Bohor 450
36 Roan 2,550
37 Sable 2,550
38 Serval Cat 300
39 Sitatunga 2,000
40 Steinbuck 250
41 Thompson's Gazelle 500
42 Topi 800
43 Warthog 450
44 Waterbuck 800
45 Wild Cat 250
46 Wildebeest 650
47 Zebra 1,200
48 Zorilla 150

B : BIRDS
1 Doves & Pigeons 30
2 Ducks 30
3 Francolin 20
4 G. Fowls 30
5 Geese 30
6 Sand grouse 20
B. OTHER FEES PAYABLE IN TOURIST HUNTING FOR THE YEAR 2008
TYPE OF FEES RATE IN USE (USD)
1 Block fees $ 27,000 per hunting season
2 Permit fee $ 950 for 10 days safaris packages
$ 1,250 for more than 10 days safari packages
3 Conservation fee $ 150 for hunting client per day
$ 100 for observer per day
4 PH examination fee $ 100 for Tanzanians
$ 500 for Non - Tanzanians
5 PH licence fee $ 1,000 for Tanzanians
$ 3,000 for Non - Tanzanians
6 Trophy handling fee $ 400 for 10 days safaris packages
$ 500 for more than 10 days safari packages

Minimum safari package is now 10 days from previous 7 days.
14 Days safari is now extended to 16 days.

Thanks buddy.........

Who determines "package"? Isn't it the outfitters? As far as the gov't is concerned, this release, doesn't package mean license? there is no more 7 or 14 day license? Don't the outfitter and client negotiate and determine the duration (# days) of the "package"?

The Game Department decide what licences will be offered and each duration licence (now 10, 16 & 21 day licences) will have a different list and number of species that can be hunted on each licence.

For example, the old and now defunct 7 day licence allowed the hunter to take 2 Buff, 2 Wildebeest, 1 Impala, 1 Zebra, 1 Warthog & 1 Hartebeest.

This sometimes varied slightly dependant on area & quota etc...........

And is there a similar final for 2007?

Does anyone have any insight into what might happen in 2009?

The prices seem reasonable but what animals will be available on each license. And how do these prices equate to the hunter since there are always a premium added by the safari company on each animals cost.

quote:

Originally posted by driftwood:
The prices seem reasonable but what animals will be available on each license. And how do these prices equate to the hunter since there are always a premium added by the safari company on each animals cost.

The additional premium, if any, is frequently dependant on whether or not the safari company has to operate year-round anti-poaching patrols. Premiums are usually less of a factor in areas like the Selous where anti-poaching efforts aren't as necessary. You usually see about a $2,000 difference on lion fees there, for example, as compared to other areas.

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:
Does anyone have any insight into what might happen in 2009?

God only knows, Lee, and as usual, he ain't talkin'.

These fee increases are not welcome by any of us, but let's face it, can we name anything besides the dollar that is getting less expensive these days?

Price increases are inevitable. TAHOA did a great job in knocking these back to somewhere near reasonable, IMHO.

Let's not forget that the crazy bastards in Tanzania banned hunting altogether back in the '70s. Without prior notice, in mid-season, while hunters were in country and on the ground!

More evidence if any were needed that the time to go is NOW!

Perhaps the opeators will reduce the daily rate on the 10 day to at least make it slightly comparable to the 7 day overall cost and make the money on the TF's. All in all, I would suspect that the Gov TF of $1900 will be retailed out at $2500, same as Zim. This of course is pure speculation. Just means if you wish to hunt TZ you save a little longer or plan on taking a few less animals and just enjoy the experience as you should anyways.

quote:

More evidence if any were needed that the time to go is NOW!

I agree!

Looking back over the last ~7 years, all of the hunts that I have been on have increased significantly in price, in some cases doubling (lion in Zambia). Not just Africa, Dall sheep in the NWT is up $3500 from two years ago ($21,000 w/flight to camp!). This year I am going after two of what may be the last of my "must-have" trophies to mount. Bongo and bighorn were on that list but they are out of reach now.

IMHO, The same applies to those who want to hunt DG w/their favorite double...do it now while flying w/guns is still relatively simple as who knows what it will be like in a few years.

Spring wrote

quote:

Premiums are usually less of a factor in areas like the Selous where anti-poaching efforts aren't as necessary.

Top Selous Outfitter actually do there Anti Poaching.
You see whats happend when Outfitters do nothing like Block MK1/Gonabisi

Seloushunter

Mike and Bill,

I agree with you. I'm booked for 21 days in Masailand with Luke Samaras through Wendell Reich in 2009. This will be a once in a lifetime hunt for me, so I definately plan on going unless the prices take a huge jump again; in which case I wouldn't be able to afford it.

On the good side there's only 18 more months to go until I hit Masailand!!!

That's great, Lee.

Luke Samaras runs a terrific operation by all accounts.

Anyone else notice that they also lowered the min elephant requirments (Length and weight).

Yeah, Canuck32, I noticed that too. It's just another way to raise revenue. But this one's not a good idea, to my way of thinking.

Reducing the minimum tusk size/weight has got nothing to do with increasing revenue. If it were, they would remove minimums for all the key species & permit hunting of females etc. The reason they've done it, is part of a long term, ongoing plan to increase the numbers of big tuskers in Tanzania. - When hunting was banned in Tanzania, poachers moved in and shot a lot of the Elephants, particularly the big tuskers. Later, when hunting was reintroduced, firstly run by Government and later re-privatised, they wanted to increase the numbers of big Elephants and over the last few years (especially) they have been steadily lowering the minimum size because, as part ofthat plan, they now want to reduce the number of 'middle aged' Elephant bulls, of which there are now a large number...... Hope that helps.

shakari, are you hitting the egg nog at all hours this holiday season?

You are making no sense whatsoever these days.

I should be so lucky! (although I'd prefer whisky!) ...... I didn't say I particularly agree with the idea. Frankly, I only see a few areas every year and that isn't a broad enough overview for me to comment on whether the overall/long term plan is working or not - but that's what the GD tell me is the theory behind it and they tell me it is working. - 2006 saw a 100 pounder taken (albeit by a game ranger) and in 2007 they re-opened Elephant hunting on normal licence in Masailand. - Although I have to say, it had a bloody silly bury or burn request to go with it!

They dropped 2 kgs or .2 metre for 2008, in 2006 they dropped 2 kgs or .2 metre, and if I remember correctly, it dropped by 2 kgs or .2 metre in about 2004. Certainly, (at least from what I see) they're right in that over the last few years, I seem to see an ever increasing number of elephants that are 'almost, but not quite shooters'. During that same period, (04-07) I have personally been seeing a small increase in numbers of bigger Elephants. As an example, at the end of the 2006 season, we had two stunners ( one about 70 odd pounds and the other about 80 odd pounds)running around the block. Unfortunately all the hunters we had coming through were on 7 day licences! Whether that is just chance or not, I don't know. As I said, I don't have a broad enough overview to comment.

On the one hand, the reduction in size/weight does make it easier for the PH because if the client shoots an undersize Elephant, there's a big fine etc involved. So smaller minimum means less risk of a stuff up...... BUT it might be counterbalanced if the client expects the PH to call the weight on a mid range tusk that is just under the price rise limit.

Tanzania has some of the strictest game laws and most well known advisory Zoologists in Africa and sometimes the game laws are a pain in the ass for the PH to comply with - BUT their policies work for their areas....... and they seem to ensure trophy standards are maintained and often improved. So I don't resent them at all. If they say it'll work, I'll believe 'em.

Normally the guy that drinks struggles to understand and nobody makes sense to them LMAO

its holidays so we can drink all day just pulling your leg

From the Hunting Report

Tanzania Trophy Fees

The schedule of 2008 trophy fees for Tanzania is now available. You'll recall that the hunting industry there recently struck a compromise with the Tanzanian government over the huge trophy and concession fee increases announced earlier this year. For sure, not everyone will be happy with the new fee schedule, but the finalized agreement is certainly good news for safari operators and would-be clients in a quandary these past months over the 2008 season.

Below are both the new fees and the previous schedule of fees for comparison:


2008 Tanzania Trophy Fees



GAME FEES



Species
Fees USD

Elephant - 15kg (33Lbs) / 1.5m
7,500

Elephant - 27kg (60 Lbs)
12,000

Elephant - 32kg (80 Lbs)
20,000




Baboon
110

Buffalo
1,900

Bushbuck
600

Bushpig
420

Caracal
150

Civet Cat
200

Crocodile
1,700

Dik Dik
250

Duiker Abbot's
280

Duiker Common
280

Eland
1,700

Fox
250

Genet
250

Gerenuk
2,500

Grant's Gazelle
450

Greater Kudu
2,200

Grysbok
350

Hartebeest
650

Hippopotamus
1,500

Hyena
550

Impala
390

Jackal
250

Klipspringer
1,200

Leopard
3,500

Lesser Kudu
2,600

Lion
4,900

Oribi
250

Oryx
2,800

Ostrich
1,200

Porcupine
150

Puku
800

Ratel ( Honey Badger)
300

Reedbuck Southern
450

Reedbuck Bohor
450

Roan
2,550

Sable
2,550

Serval Cat
300

Sitatunga
2,000

Steinbuck
250

Thompson's Gazelle
500

Topi
800

Warthog
450

Waterbuck
800

Wild Cat
250

Wildebeest
650

Zebra
1,200

Zorilla
150






BIRDS



Doves & Pigeons
30

Ducks
30

Francolin
20

G. Fowls
30

Geese
30

Sand grouse
20






OTHER FEES

TYPE OF FEES
RATE IN USE (USD)

Block fees
$ 27,000 per hunting season




Permit fee
$ 950 for 10-day safari packages


$ 1,250 for more than 10-day safari packages




Conservation fee
$ 150 for hunting client per day


$ 100 for observer per day




PH examination fee
$ 100 for Tanzanians


$ 500 for Non-Tanzanians




PH license fee
$ 1,000 for Tanzanians


$ 3,000 for Non-Tanzanians




Trophy handling fee
$ 400 for 10-day safari packages


$ 500 for more than 10-day safari packages



Minimum safari package is now 10 days from previous 7 days.

14-Day safari is now extended to 16 days.










Previous Tanzania Trophy Fees



GAME FEES



Species
Fees USD

Elephant
$5,000




Baboon
110

Buffalo
750

*2nd Buffalo
900

*3rd Buffalo
1,050

Bushbuck
425

Bushpig
240

Caracal
85

Civet Cat
340

Crocodile
1,050

Dik Dik
205

Duiker Common
220

Eland
1,050

Genet
220

Gerenuk
1,625

Grant's Gazelle
275

Greater Kudu
1,465

Grysbok
180

Hartebeest
465

Hippopotamus
1,050

Hyena
230

Impala
300

Jackal
145

Klipspringer
900

Leopard
2,500

Lesser Kudu
1,625

Lion
2,500

Oribi
150

Oryx
870

Ostrich
890

Porcupine
85

Puku
275

Ratel ( Honey Badger)
85

Reedbuck Southern
350

Reedbuck Bohor
365

Roan
1,090

Sable
1,500

Serval Cat
225

Sitatunga
1,125

Steinbuck
180

Thompson's Gazelle
240

Topi
440

Warthog
400

Waterbuck
550

Wild Cat
180

Wildebeest
400

Zebra
740




OTHER FEES



TYPE OF FEES
RATE IN USE (USD)

Block fees
$10,000 per hunting season




Permit fees
$450 for 7- to 10-day hunts


$600 for 14-day or longer safari




Conservation fee
$100 per day, per hunting client


$50 per day, per observer




Trophy handling fee
$300 per client shipment

Seloushunter

Seems the price for birds is a bit outrageous.

Remember that these Increased game fees are the government fees NOT the fees that a client will be charged. Last year the fees my safari company charged were 150+% of the government fees for the game I shot. I may be out of the game forever.

Dogcat,

There's also another way to shoot birds where you buy a bird licence and pay an additional cons fee. BwanaMich posted the details higher up this thread.