http://www.reedercustomguns.com/information/africa_images/munyan_lion1.JPG

Taken with a 378 GNR Encore handgun

DAMN, That is great. And with a handgun, amazing.

Was that lion taken with Madubula Safaris?

Regards,

Terry

Taken where? South Africa?

I'm not sure of the particulars about where the lion was taken. I'll try to find out.

Here's another photo of the same lion

Lion Photo

Reeder usually hunts with Madubula Safaris in South Africa. John does have some beautiful lions (at a price).

Regards,

Terry

Anytime I see a big lion that isn't scarred up I'm thinking "canned" hunt....just too pretty to be a wild lion.

MGM called, told South africa to quit shooting its lion.

Great cat regardless of where or how it was a grand cat.

Huge lion!! Which I was the guy in the photo.

Wow, that is a real beauty an that guy looks like the cat that got the canary. And with a handcannon!
Outstanding.
Frank

That's a beautiful lion!

The sand looks like the stuff found in the Kalahari. Bad stuff to walk on.
Very nice Lion I hope to get one like that for myself one day.

Wimpie

Thanks a lot, Tembo! Shot with a pistol, you say? Do you realize how many day dreams you have destroyed of guys (me included) thinking of stopping a charging lion because we were such coolheaded riflemen? Heck! I don't believe it!. He was shot in a Nairobi zoo!

Great lion.

I agree with wimpie, the sand and vegetation looks like Kalahari in a cattle ranching area.

Would sure like to know for sure: Canned or wild?

In good hunting,

Andrew McLaren

I think I see a can opener under one of the bushes.

I would bet it is a South African special. As long as you dont try to portray it as anything else nothing wrong with that. My only problem with that sort of thing is when it gets misrepresented. You have to admit that is a magnificent animal.

Really a magnificant lion in any ones book! If it was truly taken wild with a hand cannon, it would be an outstanding trophy and achievement otherwise it was a nice ranch shoot on a pen lion. Would like to know the story??

Dak

Received an email response from the hunter. The lion was hunted in the Kalahari region of South Africa near the Botswana border. The outfitter was Swanepoel & Scandrol. He said the area hunted was 70 square miles and it was conducted by tracking the lion (not baiting).

Regards,

Terry

If that's a free roaming lion and he was hunted by tracking, that is a fantastic trophy and the lion hunt of a lifetime. Never ever have seen a lion like that come out of the bush!

Dak

Are there any free-roaming breeding lion populations in RSA or are they all captive bred and released?

Regards,

Terry

quote:

Originally posted by T.Carr:
Are there any free roaming lions in RSA or are they all captive bred and released?

Regards,

Terry

Good question.

I suppose that a lion might wander now and then over from the Kgalagadi Transfrontier Park/Mabuasehube National Park and into RSA, but I think the chances of this happening when a hunter happens to be hunting in that area would be pretty slim.

And that sure is an immaculate lion. Not a single scar as far as I can see.

TCarr, You beat me to it! I was away this weekend and had an email waiting from the gentleman who killed this lion. That is a magnificent lion!!

The only free roaming lions I know of are in Kruger Park...I was told by a land owner that is the only place in RSA to find breeding free roaming lions...
Is that a good looking lion?? Yes, absolutely...Free roaming not for me to answer..

Mike

I would almost guarantee this lion was a captive lion taken on a high fence ranch. Granted some of these ranches could easily be 70 sq. miles. As most know, there are many BIG high fence ranches in RSA. But I believe this lion would be captive that was released before the hunt.

I am not juding either way. Just stating what I would guess the circumstances to be.

Gentlemen,

Not related to this particular hunt, but some information on lion hunting in Southern Africa. As related to me by someone who does it for a living!

A ranch might be very large, but, the lions are NOT free roaming in it. The owners will not allow that, as the lions will kill prospective trophies.

What they do is have a small area fenced in side the ranch, and on that they bread and keep the lions.

Once a lion becomes big enough to shoot, and a prospective client is found, it is transported to a "hunting" area and released. And the client is brought along to kill it.

When I asked him if this was not cheating, he said "No it is not cheating! All the hunters know exactly what they are getting, they just like to turn a blind eye to it! Either that, or they are VERY stupid"

.

Alf,

Those are really neat pics. I wish I lived somewhere where I had lions in my back yard!

Do you know the annual hunting quota in RSA for such wild lions? Is the license process different than for the pen-raised variety? Would a visiting hunter be able to look at his license or export permit and determine if he was to be hunting captive rather than wild lions?

Thanks for the info.

Apart from all the publicity on the canned hunts do you guys really think SA is going to close ALL lion hunting?

By the way...thats a nice lion.

I thought that in RSA therre was no hunting of wild Lions??? Every lion shot in RSA has to have been bred for the purpose?

I'm not 100% on this but seem to remember it being the case.

Rgds

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
What say ye on these lion?

Ar they high fence lion, tame and just released or are they wild?

Clue they are "our lion" on our ranch adjoining the Kruger. Do they move in an out, well no they dont not because of a fence but because of their pride territory. Do other males cross over fence boundries and fight our males for pride rights, absolutely.

So are these guys tame, high fence or what?

Alf,

Nice lions, and I think they are ethically huntable. I volunteer!

As mentioned before, the properties adjoining Kreuger are probably the only exceptions to canned lion hunting in RSA.

Interesting situation. I did not realize you could hunt these "border crossing" lions in RSA---Is this hunting on boundary property to the Kruger legal for lion? If so, how much more or less challenging is it to hunting them elsewhere?

Would a visiting hunter be able to look at his license or export permit and determine if he was to be hunting captive rather than wild lions?

Forrest

A number of the landowners on the KNP border have exemtion on their lion populations, allowing them to hunt them without having to phyically have a permit from the game department.

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Apart from all the publicity on the canned hunts do you guys really think SA is going to close ALL lion hunting?

bulldog563

According to the latest government press releases - definitely.

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I thought that in RSA therre was no hunting of wild Lions??? Every lion shot in RSA has to have been bred for the purpose?


Fallow Buck

There are a number of private reserves in the KNP area where wild lions can be hunted. The areas are however, significantly smaller than those in other African countries.

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Interesting situation. I did not realize you could hunt these "border crossing" lions in RSA---Is this hunting on boundary property to the Kruger legal for lion? If so, how much more or less challenging is it to hunting them elsewhere?


CanadianLefty

As explained to Forrest, there are landowners who have exemtion on their lion populations, allowing them to hunt them. Should a lion come accross from Kruger, hit the bait, and get shot, it is legal.
A hunt like this is much the same as a baiing or tracking type hunt anywhere else, except for the very large difference in the size of real estate that you are hunting on.


Brad

I'm not sure if it is still done but South Africa used to sell hunting rights for a few lions in Pilansberg Park. You were hunting a very specific lion with a park ranger granting his blessing when found. Believe me these were wild real deal lions. Vermaak Safaris used to conduct these hunts. They were big ticket hunts with a waiting list of regular clients getting first shot. I saw several of the Park lions and they were beauties. They were scuffed up as you would expect a wild lion to be. I would bet the lion in the photo was taken at the Sandhurst Safaris facility. A friend shot a lion there and told me he felt like he was buying a mail order bride!

quote:

Originally posted by Brad_Rolston:
Would a visiting hunter be able to look at his license or export permit and determine if he was to be hunting captive rather than wild lions?

Forrest

A number of the landowners on the KNP border have exemtion on their lion populations, allowing them to hunt them without having to phyically have a permit from the game department.

Brad

But there must be some quota or license; or is every lion that leaves the park fair game for a landowner with the exemption?

Does the export permit identify a lion as wild or pen raised? When does the CITES quota come into play if there is no distinction between wild and pen raised lions?

Sorry about all the questions, but I've now gotten even more curious about the logistics and paperwork of lion hunting in an area where both wild and captive lions are hunted. Thanks in advance for any explaination you can offer.

But there must be some quota or license; or is every lion that leaves the park fair game for a landowner with the exemption?

Does the export permit identify a lion as wild or pen raised? When does the CITES quota come into play if there is no distinction between wild and pen raised lions?

Sorry about all the questions, but I've now gotten even more curious about the logistics and paperwork of lion hunting in an area where both wild and captive lions are hunted. Thanks in advance for any explaination you can offer.[/QUOTE]

Forrest

He is basically fair chases if the landowner has all the necessary paperwork. If the landowner does not have exemption on lions, and the animal becomes a problem, he then has to apply to the game department for a permit to hunt it. This will be a wild lion permit, as you previously referred to.

There is no quota allocated to an exempted area. The land owners are expected to mannage their animals appropriately.( Animals included on an exemption certificate can include anything from a Duiker to an White Rhino, but will never include an Elephant, Leopard, Black Rhino or Cheetah - these are all CITES 1 animals ) Lion is listed under Schedule 11 of CITES.

The breeding of these animals is not monitered by the game department, so they have no idea of how many lions are on the reserve. An exempted area includes both areas where pen raised lions are bred, as well as reserves with wild populations. As Alf mentioned, on areas bordering Kruger, wild lion come in an out as they please. Factors like hunger, problems in a pride, and available females, are all reasons why they leave Kruger and head on to private land. He will iether dig under the fence, or climb right over it. If there is enough to eat on the land, along with a few females to keep him happy, there is a good chance that he wont be going back.

A FENCE WITH RESCPECT TO LION, LEOPARD, AND ELEPHANT, IS MERELY A FIXTURE BY WHICH A LANDOWNER DETERMINES WHERE HIS PROPERTY STARTS AND ENDS. IT IS IN NO WAY A FACTOR OR CONSIDERATION TO THESE ANIMALS.

The legal paperwork neccessary to export a lion hunted in this area is as follows :

Wriiten permission by the landowner to hunt on his land.
Transfer of hunting rights document to the hunting outfitter.
Copy of the landowners exemption certificate.
Veterinary Services trophy removal certificate.
Completed official register of the professional hunter.

At the end of the hunt, the only paperwork the huntet has, is the original from the professional hunters register. The taxidermist or shipping agent will take care of the CITES 11 export permit.

Forrest, if I have left anything out, let me know, and I will fill in the blanks.

Best wishes.

Brad

That pretty much covers it. Thanks.

Hi Forrest

Spoke with Steve and Russell this evening - where will you be hunting next year?

Brad

I've been working on a charity project in Botswana that I would like to see in operation. I might try to do a little hunting there in conjunction with a visit this summer. Other than that, I don't have anything in mind for this coming season.