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The recent post about "do you do any wingshooting in Africa" has got me thinking about "how do you do it without a dog". I have hunted doves and sand grouse at a waterhole while in Namibia and Zimbabwe using an Rem 870 pump. It was great fun! I am going back to Namibia this July. My PH reports that he has many guinea fowl and francolin but does not know how to hunt them. I am just looking for suggestions from other members here. I would like to know how to hunt guinea fowl and francolin when no dog is available? I have read about "beaters" pushing the guinea or francolin over shooters. That sounds complicated but I guess it is doable. Has anyone tried using people to push birds into flying over the shooters? The other scenario is seeing flocks of guinea fowl or francolin when out driving around. Do you just charge straight at the birds or do you attempt to sneak around them and cut them off? Do you try to trap them between 2 or 3 shooters moving in on them from different directions? Thanks Ron L | ||
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Hi Ron, There are books on the subject but herewith a quick "thumbail sketch" from my experience -Francolin are hunted pretty much like upland birds in the US - they prefer relatively open areas of mixed bushveld where they can scratch in the dirt like most fowl. They will hold cover and flush at the very last moment which make for good shooting. Best option (without a good Pointer)is to walk slowly through areas where Francolin have been spotted - on seeing a threat they typically run off a few yards and then sit tight and rely on their great camo for being undetected - walk close and they will flush. Guinea fowl are a different proposition - porbaly the most wily cunning and disrespectfull birds out here - they are runners of note and employ a number of tactics to survive - best bet for guineas is on spotting a flock is to try and approach undetected and "bump" them up, the follow after the flock and flush the one or two that may have panicked and decided to hold tight. Our local wingshooters association has a usefull book that your PH or yourself may benefit from - see http://www.wingshooters.co.za/HomePage.html Order option is at bottom of page. Hope this helps some and enjoy the trip!! | |||
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A guy who I know has a bunch of guineas on his farm here in CA. Man those things are the most hilarious birds I think I have ever seen. Once in a while he asks me to come out and "thin out the herd." Man, those things will let you walk right by them but come out with a shotgun and they will run. And I mean RUN. I've turned my golden retriever on them a couple of times and they can easily outrun him. Maybe it's because these ones are "farm" birds, but it's tough to get them to fly at all. Great to eat though. | |||
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I only hunted birds as we came upon them and not as an intentional part of the hunt. As far a francolin are concerned where I was they pretty much moved about in small groups in the open. If we came upon such a group they would run into cover and then I'd hunt them up just like any upland game bird. As far as guinea fowl are concerned they seem to run and then fly only when out of range. After much frustration I took two with one shot from my 30-06 (both through the neck). | |||
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When I was in Zim we pretty much hunted then while hunting big game, we'd see a covey or a flock and get the shotguns out and go for them. "America's Meat - - - SPAM" As always, Good Hunting!!! Widowmaker416 | |||
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a line of beater with flags can quite easily "herd" a flock of guines towards a waiting gun behind a bush, thicket or rock. Francolin are best hunted as described by Peter V. I know in SA there are outfits that use dogs and very professionally set-up as well so if one wants the option is there. If anyone is interested, I can give them the contact of Soren Lindstrom (Old well known E.A. and Botswana Ph) who offers such hunts. "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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How to hunt Guinea's? Well the most fun way is from the back of a landrover in fairly open terain. As noted by other Guinea;'s run until out of range and then fly, so you chace them in the landie until they take off. You are bouncing, they are flying and sucess rate is low but man-o-man is it fun. Lest any snobs out there question the ethics, I was introduced to this method as a schoolboy by Sir Humphry Gibbs - Govener of Sountern Rhodesia,who took a bunch of visiting "upper class twits" on a bird shoot. Will Snyman and myself were co-opted as shooter boys to fetch and carry. What better excuse to get out of Hostel for a weekend of pure mischief. We were mostly hunting though old fields left fallow, but much of namibia is open enough to treat the same. | |||
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Lest you think hunting from the back of a landcruiser is not "sporting" you should try it. Trying to hit a flying Guinea from the back of a moving vehicle is about equal to hitting an Me109 from a B17 top turret. Without the twin 50's SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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Ron, I've hunted guinea fowl from the cruiser, by stalking and with beaters. If you can get a couple of guns in a line and have the trackers circle around and get the birds to flush to you, it's a lot of fun. With a big flock, you'll have birds flushing, running and holding at the same time - they're pretty wily. The tactic with beaters works best where you're hunting in trees or thick bush. Francolin behave a lot like blue quail - they like to run first, then flush if pushed too hard. Just get out and chase them until they fly. | |||
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Ganyana, Ah, the tradition of a "driven" bird shoot in Southern Africa. Picture Mad Max with a Browning Superposed. After chasing guinea fowl around the plains on foot for a few hours and building a genuine hatred of the little feathered bast@^&#, I would happily shoot them from light aircraft, at night, use claymore mines, automatic weapons, naplam and/or cluster bombs without a twinge of regret. Chasing them in a Land Rover seems entirely sporting to me and a hunt I have enjoyed a few times. Sand Grouse and Frankolin are gentlemanly by comparison. Perry | |||
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Francolin, agree. Useful to spot them before trying to walk up and get a flush. Very good to have a non-shooter along to mark the fall (if you can hit one!) and avoid losing birds. Now, guinea fowl. I've done the classic sporting and the less sporting. In the latter category, in Sudan the drill is to drive a vehicle in smaller and smaller circles around a flock. Eventually they will fly, but the hunters generally ground sluice to collect birds for the pot. You can then follow up in the vehicle as described. If you are on foot you can get close enough to take a few for the pot by ground sluicing and then get a wingshot with the second barrel. Now, the sporting way is either a drive and that works with as few as two or three drivers putting the birds over a shooter. Or, for the fit of limb, sneak as close to a flock as possible, shotgun in one hand and rock in the other, burst out of cover, run towards the flock, fling the rock, take a few more strides, stop, shoulder the gun and try to get off two killing shots with the birds in the air. Makes us 60-year-olds feel young again... Regards | |||
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I just shot them as targets of opportunity during my DG/plainsgame hunt. Keep the shotgun in the cab of the Landrover and a box of shells on the dashboard. When we spot them (guineas or francolin) I grab the shotgun, a handfull of shells and run after them until they fly. The trackers & game scout in the back of the Landrover laughed at me for making it so unnecessarily difficult. They could not understand why I would not shoot the birds on the ground. Tim | |||
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Our PH said "do you want some francoln pie for lunch?'' We said "yes". he handed his shotgun to my son and said "There are some under that bush sneak up and get a few." Jon ran into the middle and fired as they rose. The PH yelled "WHAT ARE YOU DOING? WE'RE LOOKING FOR FOOD! POT SHOOT EM". In response to my son's confused look, he said"get dowm on you knees, hold the gun at head level and fire. You don't worry about being sporting when you're looking for food". The pie was excellent. | |||
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I think anyway you can get this is ok. I saw some guys using a snare and piece of bread that caught a few. I have hunted a lot of quail and pheasants. They are fun to shoot on the fly, but I think in Africa - anyway you can take them would fun. Our ph on an upcoming trip said to bring a .22 mag with a scope to hunt them. When in Rome........ | |||
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Hey all, You will find below a short home video clip on the subject that answers the original question. The originator of the video will remain nameless unless he wants to take credit for it.  I at least hope he doesn't mind me posting it here, as I have done so without permission. I'm actually not even sure he knows I rendered it to .mpg a few years ago.  I hope everyone enjoys it! Make sure to crank the volume so you can hear the commentary.  To see the clip, click on the link. PLEASE NOTE, AFTER CLICKING ON THE LINK YOU MUST ENTER USER NAME:forums PASSWORD: accurate Hunting birds in Namibia, redneck style... Cheers, Canuck | |||
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[Deleted] Oh, never mind... | |||
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Bob, you are one sick bastard!  Frank Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Canuk, what a hoot! Bob F.  I haven't hunted birds in Africa but we jumped a nice flock when the beaters were trying to scare up a bushbuck for my wife. Since I was videoing the hunt, I have some great film of them flying overhead with me and Claude, our PH going "Bang, Bang" on the audio. My wife was not too happy as she was serious about her bushbuck hunting, but Claude and I were sure wishing we had our shottie guns. Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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Easy you book with a PH who has a kennel of German Short Hairs Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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One other essential though for African Bird shooting is, if you don't have a dog, at least have a velcro crested retriever - loose fewer birds than any dog I've used | |||
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The people who say corvids (crows)are the most intelligent birds have simply never tried hunting guinea fowl without a dog. Hunting these clever birds by any method that will be generally considered as "ethical" without a dog is very difficult and frustrating. Easy enough to shoot one for the pot, particularly if you use a .22LR (an illegal method in most areas), but to follow up and have a few sporting shots? Big job, requiring a lot of planning and a disposition to be able to admit being outsmarted by a bunch of birds. And again and yet again! Yes the surround method by a large group of guns, maybe interspersed with Ganyana's style retrievers. There is a story of a large group of guns that surrounded a big flock in a maize field. They had 2-way radios and at the signal all started walking slowly to the center of the field. Until they actually met, without one shot being fired. It later transpired when their very frustrated PH started tracking the flock that the whole flock escaped by running into a covered drainpipe and then through a road culvert! Frustratingly clever birds! PH’s who offer bird hunting all have their own secrets of how to get their clients some sporting and ethical shooting! IMHO and from personal experience all of these wonder methods fail, if not mostly, then at least regularly! The basic is to confuse the flock, get them split up and get them to sit tight in the long grass. Then a pointer is used to find the individual sitting birds. Or the hunter can walk through the area and flush a few himself. Someone advised to book with an outfitter with a kennel of good German Shorthair Pointers. That’s me! In good hunting. Andrew McLaren. Andrew McLaren Professional Hunter and Hunting Outfitter since 1974. http://www.mclarensafaris.com The home page to go to for custom planning of ethical and affordable hunting of plains game in South Africa! Enquire about any South African hunting directly from andrew@mclarensafaris.com After a few years of participation on forums, I have learned that: One can cure: Lack of knowledge – by instruction. Lack of skills – by practice. Lack of experience – by time doing it. One cannot cure: Stupidity – nothing helps! Anti hunting sentiments – nothing helps! Put-‘n-Take Outfitters – money rules! My very long ago ancestors needed and loved to eat meat. Today I still hunt! | |||
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Thanks. It does look like a lot of fun, doesn't it! Cheers, Canuck | |||
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We shoot their heads off with a big bore rifle and iron sights, Froncolin and Guis....sporting eh what? Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I have always used a gun or bow, the last time I tried a dog I could not throw the dog far enough. Wimpie | |||
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Bob, that was awesome, thanx! That took me back to the time when we found a naked mole rat in the Kalahari, and in our drunken stupor we made a Croc-hunter style video about Kalahari ground lions. I'll say this about hunting guinea fowl though, the absolute best way to find them is to go into the bush after impala. I have never hunted impala with a client or myself that I have not jumped guinneas. It's my curse, I guess. Hair, not Air! Rob Martin | |||
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Last week I hunted birds in the neighbors tomato fields (2500 hectares) mostly from the back of the bakkie (great fun) but also using the trackers as beaters and by walking through high grass. Success rate was adequate. A good bird dog would have made it excellent! | |||
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with a 22 rim fire.. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Easy to do: you set an old time bed springs up on Sinder blocks, the old kind of bed sprins with the cone springs....put feed under the springs..when they come to eat the feed, you slam the kitchen door, they fly up and stick in the springs (cones) and the feathers lay in such a fashion that they are caught snug..you pull them out , kick the damn dog away from you, and pull their heads off..   Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Blasting them from the high seat of a zooming Land Cruiser is definitley the way to go! But don't start thinking that you'll be able to talk your trackers and scout out of adding them to their menu....You might shoot them, but they'll get to eat them! | |||
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Here is a photo of just a few of the guinea fowl that got in the way of my shotgun during my DG/Plainsgame safari  | |||
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 This is a follow-up to my original question about how to hunt guinea fowl without a dog. I want to thank everyone for their suggestions. We were in Namibia a few weeks ago bow hunting for plains game. On several mornings we went out and spotted the guineas in more open areas. We would walk towards the flocks pushing them back towards the brush. Eventually they flew into the brush which split up the flocks. Within a few minutes the guineas would start calling to each other. My son went with the bushman tracker Fritz and I went with the PH Antonie "stalking guinea fowl". Now I know that this is not as dangerous as hunting buffalo but it was really lots of fun stalking in close to the guineas while in the brush. When we got within 20 yards they would flush. It was just like flushing pheasants out of a cattail slough back in Iowa. We each shot 5 guinea in about an hour of stalking. They key to making this work was flushing the flock back into the thicker cover where they birds would then have trouble seeing and running. It was almost like stalking bugling elk or gobbling turkeys with the guineas calling to each other. | |||
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 Here is a picture of the PH's son and myself where I shot a few guineas and hunted a few doves over a waterhole one morning. He had never seen anyone wingshooting before. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting How do you hunt guinea fowl/francolin without a dog?
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