Top Predator,

As 500 grains alluded too, the diameter of an elephants leg is impressive and will soak up most of even a large bores penetration when using a SP.

The diameter of the rear leg on my average size tuskless cow was 21 inches, including a 6 inch diameter thick femur!

I did not measure the front leg.

Stunt Pilots 460 weatherby shooting factory 450 grain Barnes X as I recall was a head shot and had as much penetration as my 465 grain TCCI RN at similar velocity from my 450 Dakota which went through the zygomatic arch.

If I was going to shoot an elephant w a soft point or monolithic HP, it would oddly enough be in the side of the head not the chest.

Only problem is the elephant may not agree to present him or herself to you sideways!

Safe hunting.

Andy

quote:

The diameter of the rear leg on my average size tuskless cow was 21 inches, including a 6 inch diameter thick femur!

Maybe circumference?! Otherwise that is a big ass elephant.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

The diameter of the rear leg on my average size tuskless cow was 21 inches, including a 6 inch diameter thick femur!

Maybe circumference?! Otherwise that is a big ass elephant.

My leg is bigger than 21" circumference, that's less than 7" in diameter.

Will,

Thank you for the education.

That was the radius (shot path) of the bullet through the left rear leg as she faced away from me after I bungled my brain shot.

So I guess I shot a large tuskless cow!

She was 18 years old, but not as tall as the herd matriarch, which by her behavior, appeared to be her mother who had long slender tusks. That is why I assumed she was just average size.

I guess mama was a giant!

Andy

From my very limited experience with elephants (1), I would highly recomend that you stick with something solid. If you like breathing that is.

This is a very good thread.........Tho I may be out in left field , most of the time ... If I am ever able to hunt elephant , I will do my best to use solids... However as Stunt pilot 2 said .. His solids went missing.......And because he had enough gun and enough bullet he was able to sucesfully hunt ,{ the Big Five ] with expanding bullets... But Gerard and 500 grains brings up a point that I tried to get accross in the Brown bears arn,t elephants thread. And people with their heavy for caliber bullets....... Now it seems I should have said Rhinos.. As elephants seem to be taken quite cleanly with a good brown bear bullet... I hope I,m not stirring the pot too much.. It,s not my intention.....Any of the Super Premium modern expending bullets are really an impressive bullets and they penetrate amazeingly deep... I have never recovered an X bullet from an animal .. And I relly wanted to......Even 300 gr 458 bullets at 2650 fps impact velocity....

I once once delivered a coup de gras to a downed and out but not dead tuskless with a .458" 500gr Woodleigh soft to the head/neck junction at the top of the elephant's neck. (if it had been standing)

I was running low on solids and Buzz Charlton suggested it and told me that it would work for sure. I was doubtful but it was instantly fatal, as evidenced by the swishing rear leg.

About 2050fps, 2' range , no exit.

I'm fairly certain a .458" 500gr Woodleigh soft would peneterate sufficiently for a side brain shot on a cow. No way I'd try it as a first shot though.

JPK

This sort of discussion really brings into perspective the old .45/70 Hard Cast bullet arguments, doesn't it?

gumboot458,
The fact that copper mono solids and expanding bullets are seldom recovered, is a huge marketing problem. All that the successful hunter has to show is the animal. No bullet to discuss and no speculation about how it failed or did not fail.

To go towards fixing this problem (as I see it), on the handrail in the photo below are the following: 40gr .224 HVs used on springbuck and blesbuck, 75gr .243 HVs used to harvest impala, kudu and bushbuck, an assortment of 110gr .270 cal and .30 cal HVs, used to take plains game from springbuck to eland. As soon as I can get the photos done, I will post the pictures of the larger calibers used on the big ones up to rhino, cape buff and ele.

quote:

I understand a soft point maybe not penetrate the skull on a brain shot.

But why not use soft points for chest shots?? is Elephant hide too thick for soft points??

Hallo Top Predator,

soft point Bullets tend to open up on Impact. Sectional Density linearyly determines Penetration. Accepting the two given Facts, let's understand, what they mean. If Your Bullet opens up to 1,414 original Caliber (the Square root of 2), the Area doubles, the sectional Density halves and so does Penetration.

That means with soft points You need 1,414 time longer bullest to get the same Penetration as with an non expanding (flat nosed solid non-super cavitator) in the same Caliber.

Whether the particular Rifle stabilizes such Bullet, must be researched and positively be proven.

There are definitely Cases, when deforming Bullets are a Choice, manly when You want an big Hole in the Target but do not have a big Bore. Say You have .416†Rigby, bus every one in the Camp says, You MUST use .458†or even better .505†to perform.

Then the Deformator Guy comes and says. I have this short twisted .416†Rigby with my 10,5 mm Bullet designed to open up 1,4 Times in Meat, after it easily penetrated this thick Skin. My Bullet is then 14,7 mm wide (equals a .585†Biggy) and makes nice big Hole, as You wanted.

My “small deformer†Bullet is sturdy, but not sturdy enough, to keep the Mushroom in Bone. Hence in Bone the Mushroom brakes off (ok, ok, looses some Weight, but not that much, say 10%) and the Bone penetration can be calculated with original Caliber @ 90% Weight



With such a “Soft point†I would love to go on Elephant, under any Situation (except drunk) and have an adequate Bullet, no Matter, whether I may shoot quietly from the Side into the Chamber, making a big Hole in Lung or Heart, or defeat the Charging grey Monster from the Front, or. As also mentioned, after I missed those two shots and the Elephant runs away (Wonder if he would) I could get his Hip or real Leg, to keep him close.

LutzM

NitroX,

Yes, but then I would never use a hard cast bullet on an elephant for the first shot either.

Might try a hard cast from a DG rifle, i.e. not a 45/70, for a coup de gras if I was running low on solids though.

JPK