I posted a poll about this last week. The Big Game Hunting Forum is mostly against it and the African forum is mostly for it. Let's devise some rules that seem acceptable.

Remember, this is for North America

I'll start with this.

No Native North American Animals Allowed
The reason being I feel that native species are held in common and are not for sale. 'Exotic' or introduced animals are like cows or chickens, private property and can be sold just as readily.

Thus, no Elk Ranches in Colorado or Maine and no Whitetail Deer Farms in Michigan or Texas. If you have a High Fence Operation you must get rid of or not hunt native species.

[ 04-23-2003, 07:31: Message edited by: Mickey1 ]

I see a pretty clear distinction between "deer farms" and some high-fenced ranches where deer are hunted. Seeing migratory game animals like elk behind a high fence really bothers me.

Mickey1, there is only one rule for high fence hunting,and that is: If you don't like the operation, don't hunt it!

Some places are like shooting at an ainmal in a 12 foot pit, but there are many ranches in Texas that are almost the size of Roade Island. On a ranch like this, the fence is not to keep animals in, but to keep them out! The habitat is so improved by proper management, that if the fence were taken down, the population on the property would increace to the rate found outside the fence. The population outside the fence is the reason the habitat outside the fence is depleated.
The population is regulated inside so that habitat isn't damaged beyond its carrying capacity. This fact alone promotes better quality game. I agree with most though, the species makes a difference, and my only bitch with these places is with migratory species, like Elk! My grandfather's ranch, where I was born, had an outside border fence of 35 miles, though not high fence. In that land, there were deer that avoided us for years, and one that I'd seen for at least ten years as I grew up on the place, was found dead in the pasture, though many family members, hunted him every year, he died of old age, and never left our property. A fence, high or low had nothing to do with his ability to avoid being shot. He simply knew every bush, rock, hill, creek, and thicket on his range, better than I did, and I was in the woods with a rifle, everyday that I wasn't in school.

Mac,

Very well put amigo!!

Bob

Mac

All well and good. But, WA, ID, MT, CA, NV, and AZ in the West have banned any type of High Fenc Hunting. OR has banned HF hunting of Native species and is attempteing to close the only operation left that still hunts exotics. CO, IN and NC will have bills voted on this year to ban ALL HF hunting ,regardless of species or size of operation. The log is rolling and picking up speed.

For years HF operations have ignored the objections by AR and Hunters and the Hunting Organizations have been more concerned with the Revenue from HF advertisements and record book entries to take a position.

The Montana coalition of HSUS and RMEF that brought hunters and non hunters together to ban HF hunting in that State and the current SCI Presidents ownership of a HF operation has finally started a serious effort to come up with some guidelines that can be defended by SCI and also supported by the membership.

It is not enough to make general statements about size, each animal has different requirements, opportunity to escape, an animal can only go to the fence, etc etc. Hard and fast rules that cover all captive animals are all that will sell to the vast majority of the non-hunting public. Whether or not people are against hunting it is too easy of a sell to call it canned hunting and impossible to defend without standards that are defensible.

I spent last weekend on a HF Ranch in Oregon. My first experience in NA. 1500 acres on the side of a Mountain with lots of draws and steps, 3/4 timbered. The Goats and Sheep, Buffalo, Yaks, Watusi were for shooters only. The Russian Boar, Fallow Deer and Eland would be fun and challenging. It is what it is and I had a good time with some very nice people and saw a few animals taken. But a tough sell to the non-hunting public.

Just some thoughts and looking for input. Is it possible to set some universal standards that can be supported by most hunters? I don't know, I don't know if most hunters even support the concept of HF Hunting.

HSUS? Why would anyone deal with them?

Mickey1,
Could you clarify for me again what the purpose of the fence is? Are we keeping good genes in, bad genes out?
Keeping hunters not paying out?
Trigger