I was in Zim last month hunting and both the PHs in camp made it clear that they thought female leopards should be added to the quota. In an area where there are six leopards on license, they thought two should be females in order to take pressure off the males which according to them are getting harder and harder to take. They thought the leopard population in Zim was getting unbalanced and this would not only help their industry, but help improve the overall number of leopards?

Does this make sense or are we just hunting too many leopards?

Actually, it does make sense.

I am not sure about now, but in the past one could shoot female of many species, including lion, zebra, impala, kudu, buffalo etc.

Absolutly NOT!

One male will mate with numerous females.

Shooting females will only cut our own throats.

Not seeing enough males so let's shoot females too...dosen't make much sense does it?

That's hunting fellas, hopefully we make a kill, but sometimes we don't.

The well being of a Leopard population should ALWAYS come before a successful hunt.

LEOPARD TRACK
≠1

I know it's a controversial subject here in Zim, but I don't think it's a good idea at all. No doubt there are old, barren females walking around out there that would be more use to the system in leopard heaven, but there would also be too much room for more of the bullshit we having been reading about lately to take place. Soon certain 'PH's would be allowing cubs to be shot and whining 'but females are on quota'...

I don't think we are shooting too many leopards in Zim, that is unless quotas have been increased dramatically since I have been out of the game. Nothing would surprise me.... Their nature does not make them easy to hunt and the failure rate is pretty high. Consider this: Between 1918 and 1990 cattle ranchers in the lowveld used any method they could think of to kill leopards - shooting, trapping, poisoning....And across the board - males, females, juveniles...I would say the leopard population in the Save was pretty stable in 1990, as it is now. Leopards are survivors and can withstand the most determined persecution.

quote:

Originally posted by martin pieters:
LEOPARD TRACK
≠1

Hi Martin,

Wayne Grant would give out a good ass-kicking for shooting a female!

I am curious what is the average age of a male Leapord who is hunted and taken by a hunter?

At what age does a female Leapord no longer give birth?

Any idea of how many lepords of both sexes are in a concession. I am sure it would be aproximate or an educated guess?

The guy who really needs to comment here is Dusty Joubert, he has done a heap of research on leopards in the Save.

quote:

Originally posted by BigBoreCore:
I was in Zim last month hunting and both the PHs in camp made it clear that they thought female leopards should be added to the quota. In an area where there are six leopards on license, they thought two should be females in order to take pressure off the males which according to them are getting harder and harder to take. They thought the leopard population in Zim was getting unbalanced and this would not only help their industry, but help improve the overall number of leopards?

Does this make sense or are we just hunting too many leopards?

Perhaps they need to shoot less males in those areas??? Just an idea.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:
The guy who really needs to comment here is Dusty Joubert, he has done a heap of research on leopards in the Save.

I think you'd hear Dusty concede that an annual off take of a few females could be done in an ecologically sound manner on the Save. Particularly when the male and female populations are growing at a significant pace.

quote:

Originally posted by safari-lawyer:

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:
The guy who really needs to comment here is Dusty Joubert, he has done a heap of research on leopards in the Save.

I think you'd hear Dusty concede that an annual off take of a few females could be done in an ecologically sound manner on the Save. Particularly when the male and female populations are growing at a significant pace.

Fair enough in the Save where hunters still do things properly. But it could not only apply to the Save and no doubt certain individuals in other areas would consider females on quota a license to A)Increase the overall leopard quota B) Pump anything with spots.

I am of the opinion that all hunting concessions where wild cats are hunted should be paying a resident ecologist to track the populations and manage the quota.
If an old female is no longer producing then she should be hunted, but not under any other circumstances.
The easy way out is to simply hunt males based on quotas. If the outfitters are struggling to hunt then they should be responsible and reduce their offtake regardless of quota until their numbers rise, not try and shoot the goose that laid the egg.

quote:

Originally posted by African Hunters Quest:
I am of the opinion that all hunting concessions where wild cats are hunted should be paying a resident ecologist to track the populations and manage the quota.
If an old female is no longer producing then she should be hunted, but not under any other circumstances.
The easy way out is to simply hunt males based on quotas. If the outfitters are struggling to hunt then they should be responsible and reduce their offtake regardless of quota until their numbers rise, not try and shoot the goose that laid the egg.

100% but unfortunately there are a lot of 'operators' these days who are more concerned about making fast money than preserving hunting areas for future generations. That sort will run circles around any change to the existing law. It may not be perfect, but at least it keeps a semblance of order at this time, when we need it to. Particularly since most of those money grabbing parasites could never outwit a mature male leopard anyway, given that they spend a great deal more time counting their ill gotten gain than sitting in a blind....

For that sort, ANY concession to shooting females will result in mayhem. Every female in the areas they 'hunt' will become barren overnight. That sort would also never spend one cent on an ecologist or even a gamescout. There are a number of them running around these days. Trailer trash of the hunting world. A 4x4, 375 and a library full of bullshit are the only requirements they feel they need to be an operator.

David

No. All I smell is money.

Not unless the wildlife management folks think that it will help increase the total Leopard population. To take females just to take pressure off the males is worse than counter-productive.

If there is too much hunting pressure on the males, the quota should be reduced. It looks like the only answer.

quote:

Originally posted by Leopardtrack:

quote:

Originally posted by martin pieters:
LEOPARD TRACK
≠1

Hi Martin,

Wayne Grant would give out a good ass-kicking for shooting a female!

In the recent African Hunting Gazette (winter 2011) there is an article by Tanith Grant, Wayne's daughter, on establishing better quotas for off take.

May be worth a read for those interested.

No

quote:

For that sort, ANY concession to shooting females will result in mayhem.

David, you are 100% correct about that and the sort of people who would bring the mayhem about.

Money can buy many things, but class is not one of them...

Tanith Grant (daughter of PH Wayne Grant)just finished her graduate theisis on Leopard satus in the Marula area of Zimbabwe.
She wrote an artical about it which is
in the current issue of African Sporting Gazette.

If you go to their website you can read it for free.

If anyone thinks that females should be killed they should read this artical first!

I see no conservation and smell $$$$

NO with a Capital NO.

The females make it a renewable resource.

Mike

absolutely not and there other game species that the females should be taken off the list as well

I'm confused. You can hunt female lions, at least in Dande North. Why don't the same arguments apply to lions as to leopards?

Indy,

One reason I can think of is lions reproduce in large family groups and have the ability to raise lots of cubs. Adults and sub adults care for the cubs and have the ability to provide food much more effectively.

Leopards, on the other hand, are solitary and raise fewer cubs. I see this as a big difference and that is why I said 'no'.

I didn't read everyone's post, but last week at the Namibian Profesional Hunter Org...voted to "yes" shooting Female leopards. So that's something they will try and get the gov't to change with is just EFFING NUTS!

They paired it up with a few other initiatives that were highly necessary dealing with Leopard tag allotments, and wouldn't allow line by line voting...

Very sneaky tactics~

quote:

Originally posted by Oryxhunter1983:
I didn't read everyone's post, but last week at the Namibian Profesional Hunter Org...voted to "yes" shooting Female leopards. So that's something they will try and get the gov't to change with is just EFFING NUTS!

They paired it up with a few other initiatives that were highly necessary dealing with Leopard tag allotments, and wouldn't allow line by line voting...

Very sneaky tactics~

Did the Namibian group give any research results to support their position? Or are they trying to get more leopard tags?

i'm all for the idea of farm raising leopards and lions, then we could relocate them into areas where the populations are way down. such areas as minnesota then maybe i could go crat hunting in my backyard for something bigger than calicoes

leopards breed year round in most places , cubs remain dependant for quite some time and are heavily predated by hyaena and lion , thus the competition and pressure to bring all cubs to adulthood is significant on a female cat -

as the cubs wean she then comes into oestrus again , thus most female leopards in their prime are either pregnant or have dependant cubs -

a study in the okavango showed a perticularly low survival rate of cubs due to the hyaen and lion pressure on them -

as someone said , one male can mate with several females - killing the females kills the next generation -

where leopards are getting harder and harder either quotas are too high or PHing is careless , a big male that is disturbed while on bait by a mistake by the hunters will learn from that and this "educated" cat will become very hard to kill.

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
absolutely not and there other game species that the females should be taken off the list as well

Yeah like Hyena.

quote:

Originally posted by ivan carter:
leopards breed year round in most places , cubs remain dependant for quite some time and are heavily predated by hyaena and lion , thus the competition and pressure to bring all cubs to adulthood is significant on a female cat -

as the cubs wean she then comes into oestrus again , thus most female leopards in their prime are either pregnant or have dependant cubs -

a study in the okavango showed a perticularly low survival rate of cubs due to the hyaen and lion pressure on them -

as someone said , one male can mate with several females - killing the females kills the next generation -

where leopards are getting harder and harder either quotas are too high or PHing is careless , a big male that is disturbed while on bait by a mistake by the hunters will learn from that and this "educated" cat will become very hard to kill.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
absolutely not and there other game species that the females should be taken off the list as well

Yeah like Hyena.

How do you decide whats a male and a female with a hyena ?

Initially track size, but before the shot you have to see his nuts

My understanding with hyena is that the alpha female of a group becomes hermaphroditic and its clitoris hypertrophies into a pseudo-penis...sounds like a neat & unusual trophy! Am I correct in thinking that female hyenas are legal to shot wherever hyenas are legal?

On a 2nd note, getting back to female leopard hunting...It'd be nice to have a game biologist weigh in on this...The old thinking among the whitetail deer (totally different species, I know) was "never shoot does"- - now its known that for a healthy herd/ecosysyem. some female deer should be shot...

Uh Oh.....

quote:

Originally posted by A.Dahlgren:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
absolutely not and there other game species that the females should be taken off the list as well

Yeah like Hyena.

How do you decide whats a male and a female with a hyena ?

You skin it.

quote:

Originally posted by Leopardtrack:
Initially track size, but before the shot you have to see his nuts

I would find that very hard on a hyena if not impossible.



Which one is the male ?

quote:

Originally posted by A.Dahlgren:

quote:

Originally posted by Leopardtrack:
Initially track size, but before the shot you have to see his nuts

I would find that very hard on a hyena if not impossible.



Which one is the male ?

If there is a male among the two it would likely be the one on your left.

Another NO vote.

Odds are that the larger hyena is a female and the smaller hyena is the male.

+1