JPK reports this cow was running when his shot that passed just under the brain dropped her, as she was struggling to get up He ran up beside her and put one through the brain. In Ian's book "Months of the Sun" there's a pic with a pair of ele's like this side-by-side, they have tusk but much to short to keep the head elevated like it is. What's holding the ele's head up? John claims to have the ear in both hands curling it up but he don't appear to be straining hard enough for me to buy it.

The trunk.

Ray.
I have shot 5 elephants. Four were first shot into the brain. Only one fell as in JPK,s picture, a cow I shot side brain at 12 yards. I have shot one other cow side brain at <5yards and a bull and a cow at 6 yards.
The side brain shot in the cow that fell on her brisked hit the back of the brain and went through the "medula oblonggota" the shot every sniper strives for. It is supposed to kill instantly with no muscle motor function.
The head may have some support from the trunk, but basically the neck,spine is in its netrual relaxed possition.
That is my theory at least. I have seen many pictures in old elephant humnting books with elephants in this position.
It is kind of neat when you do it for real.

Of course it just may be because great elephant hunters like Ian, JPK and me use a .458 bore double rifle.

Great elephant hunter N E 450 No2 Do you believe if the trunk were completely removed the head would still be elevated? The Four Five Eight double may have just scared her stiff.

From what I remember when they cut the trunk off of my cow I do not remember it dropping much at all.
The ivory did not touch the gound.

Go to www.safarivideos.com
Click on clients, my initals are TB, you can see the cow I am speaking about.
These fotos are from my first Safari in June 2004

I really like that pose for cow elephants, looks very natural.

TB thanks and I certainly don't know one way or the other but it looks to me like the trunk is not supporting the head. In the pic's I've seen the head looks natural, like you said relaxed in the neutral position. If the trunk were holding it up you would think the head would be tilted to one side or the other depending on how the trunk deformed with the weight bearing on it. If you look at JPK's pic you can see the trunk is positioned all to one side, if the trunk was supporting the weight it should influence the head to turn toward the great elephant hunter instead it looks as if she placed it in that position herself to look strait ahead. I guess what's appealing to me about this pose is they don't have the form or appearance of being dead like ele's on their side with all the life zapped out of them. Johns cow looks alive and well even majestic like she hunched down and said hop-on John I'll take you for ride.

I wonder if it could simply be the skeletal structure of the elephant. Thinking about this the animals doesn't need to bend it's head downward to drink water or feed because of the trunk. Do they have enough flexibility in the neck to even bend their head downward? If they get down close to the ground, they kneel right?

I agree with you RayRay, it doesn't seems as though the head is tilted toward the hunter, which it should have been even slightly, if the trunk was supporting the weight of the head and neck.

450NE No2's comment about the medula oblongata is interesting. The shot that killed this elephant hit at the bottom of the actual earhole, with the top 1/4 of the bullet's entrance wound cutting the cicle of flesh that rings the earhole. The exit was an inch or so lower and forward of that spot on the opposite side.

When I made the killing shot I was just a bit higher than the elephant's head, and a step behind parrallel to the earhole. Range was 15yds or so as I recall.

When I made the shot she was still down at the rear but her front legs were extended and she was trying to rise. Notice how her front legs are under her and forward. Maybe this is what id holding her neck and head up.

JPK

With all the hotshot elephant hunters that frequent this site you'd think this would be nailed down by now. Surely there's someone here that understands the elephants "anatomy" well enough to close the door on this one.

I Haven't thought about it until now and I'm not sure anyone's suggested it to this point but I wonder if a shot to the "medulla oblongata" might be sufficient reason for ele's to end in this condition.

quote:

Surely there's someone here that understands the elephants "anatomy" well enough to close the door on this one.

Yep, Will. He wrote a book about it, "Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game."

I surely don't have a definative answer to the question but I can make a couple of points that may be of some help. If you have ever handled the trunk of a dead elephant you will see that it is completely relaxed in death and since it does not contain any bone it would be impossible for it to hold up the elphants head. I suspect that for an elephant to remain upright on death the death would have to be instantaneous and most importantly the elephant would have to come down with perfect balance to end up upright. Several of my elephants have come down from brain shots and almost stayed up but tipped over at the last second. I think balance has to do with that. Their weight was slightly off center which caused them to tip over on their sides. It may also be necessary for their feet to be extended to the front for this to happen butI'm guessing on this.

465H&H

Anti-gravitation caused by super-cavitation.

ElementaryElementary, mymy deardear RayRay.

465 H&H,

In this instance, I wonder if the soft sand didn't prevent the elephant from tipping over as well. Balance wouldn't have had to be perfect since the sand was so soft.

JPK

In Buzz's DVD "Hunting the African Elephant" Norbert is setting on the knee of an ele that he brained. The ele is on a hill side defiantly not level ground. Yet she lays upright just as pretty as you please.

Mrlexma go to your room and don't interrupt the grownups when there talking.

Anyone who has ever skinned a heavey-antlered animal like a bull moose or a bull elk can tell you of a very large, very elastic cord-like structure (tendons?) that acts to pull upward on the head and neck. It runs just under the hide, above the spine. I'll bet elephants have one too, so as to counteract the tremendous weight of the head.

quote:

Originally posted by RayRay:
In Buzz's DVD "Hunting the African Elephant" Norbert is setting on the knee of an ele that he brained. The ele is on a hill side defiantly not level ground. Yet she lays upright just as pretty as you please.

Mrlexma go to your room and don't interrupt the grownups when there talking.

Possibly it is the hillside that it is holding the elephant upright. I have seen pictures of elephants in an upright position leaning against a tree.

465H&H

I don't think so not in this case the ele is facing downhill I can't remember if there is a tree or not.

One thing is for sure, the front legs have to be under the chest. I just seen a picture of one that 500 grains clobbered and the legs went out spread eagle, her heads laid on the ground flat as a pancake.
Pic added