A couple of questions:

1. Are they permitting ammo in TuffPaks?

2. Are they gathering up the ammo from all the suitcases and weighing it together?

Those may be airline regs but not TSA regs. I've had a supervisor overrule some TSA workers as to what is legal or not. TSA SHOULD not care where the ammo is or what it weighs, just that the guns are unloaded (with the orange tag in the case) and the ammo is packed safely.

As an aside, when I was checking in at the SAA desk at Dulles recently, the ticket agent told me the bolts had to be removed. I told him there was no such regulation, even though at the next counter a booking agent from Sporting Int'l (who shall remain nameless) was trying to tell me that it has ALWAYS been required to have bolts removed.

After I told him he was full of sh*t, I "Held the agents hand" and told him what the rules were. It is amazing that airline agents have no clue as to what they are suppose to do (from the orange tags to getting the guns directly to TSA).

I've found that the best approach is to politely tell the airline and TSA agents what they are suppose to be doing if I see any hesitation or consternation on their part.

Good luck on your hunt.

Bill is correct, TSA does not make the law/regs. The airline is the one who has the say on whether ammo may be carried in the firearms case.

Rules re: Traveling with Firearms

Bill,

So you find Tommy a little hard to deal with? You think he has an attitude? My thoughts exactly.

Regards,

Terry

I just got back Monday from SA/Zim. I left through Dulles and was told to put ammo in separate case. This is how I have always done it so no problem. Leaving South Africa the ticket agent counted my ammo and put it on a scale. She then said it had to go in my TuffPack. No problem....I did what she asked. I then took my Tuff Pack to the SA Police to check my guns out of the country and once they saw ammo in the gun case they freaked. To make matters worse my gun permitt that these same people filled out on my arrival had no permit number filled in. I kept my cool, told the man it was my fault and I would never make such mistakes again....he shook my hand, never opened the gun case, and told me he would see that the guns made the flight back home. Like people have said before, Keep calm...Smile a lot....call them Sir...and if all fails slip them $5 and you will get through.

The Delta baggage people both heading out in Dallas and returning in Atlanta told me that the ammunition could not be in the Tuffpak. I saw no advantage to arguing and already had it locked in a plastic box in my other checked bag. No one at any point ever wanted to look in the box or weigh it, or even asked how much it weighed. Maybe I was just lucky. I guess this is non-responsive since the issue never got to the TSA people, but it was the one thing the Delta folks were concerned about, well that and filling out the red tag swearing the guns were unloaded.

Edited to add: I used soft cases with side pockets specifically so that I could put the bolts in the pockets. Although this may not be a requirement it did speed up the inspection at times.

I agree that there would be no advantage to arguing with the Delta reps even though their website infers that the ammo may be packed in the same case. The TSA website specifically allows it, but does say that the airlines may set their own rules as well. I also emailed SAA and their rely was "You may pack the ammunition with the firearm in the same container." Obviously the left hand doesn't talk to the right! There's also no mention of the bolt having to be removed, but since it's no big deal for a bolt gun why argue. Sometimes you just have to bite your tongue, play stupid and carry on.

quote:

Originally posted by akpls:
There's also no mention of the bolt having to be removed, but since it's no big deal for a bolt gun why argue.

When your guncase shows up in the baggage claim area with a 1" gap from being smashed on the edge ......you might understand why it's a big deal to have the bolt out of the rifle! The rifles were not damaged, but a loose bolt could easily have been lost.

I have never heard of anyone losing the bolt while it was in the rifle.......can't say the same about bolts that were taken out of the rifle!!

Know what you call a rifle missing the bolt???

A stick!

Will I love how your call a spade a spade...

My philosophy is KISS keep it simple stupid..

I had to argue with a SAA clerk who wanted all ammo in with guns and I did and off to cop office and they made me take ammo out of gun cases...But baggae was gone and Saa handed me my ammmo in Atlanta in a plastic bag...


Mike

TSA different airport.

As I was coming back from TZ I got back to Dulles and I had to re-check my guns thru customs, to make a long story short TSA told me they would X-ray (????) my aluminium hard case to "inspect" my rifles. I tried to inquire as to how a X-ray would see thru aluminum, I was told very forcefully by the TSA person that gun cases were not to be opened under any circumstances inside an airport and that the X-ray would tell them all they needed to know.
I smiled said thank you and went on...........JJ

I have not traveled that extensive maybe 15 to 20 flights, but I have never had a clerk know what to do with "firearms". When checking in I always tell the I have firearms not guns. The usual response is I don"t know how to handle this and they look for a supervisor who usually dosen't know a lot about what to do. Usually the first thing said is you have to fill this out - the unloaded statement. I say yes and the ammo is in my checked luggage and God is in his kingdom and all is right with the world. Done and done.

GonHuntin,
I agree having the bolt loose in a gun case seems like a good way to loose it if the case is damaged.
Make sure you have some heavy plastic tie-wraps with you and secure the bolt to the rifle sling if they make you remove it (or just do it before hand).
Even though TSA doesn't check something at the counter they may check in the back. Have found "Inspected by Homeland Security" tape sealing an ammo container in a checked bag which contained snap caps (the little springs inside must have looked suspicous on an x-ray).

quote:

Originally posted by GonHuntin:

quote:

Originally posted by akpls:
There's also no mention of the bolt having to be removed, but since it's no big deal for a bolt gun why argue.

When your guncase shows up in the baggage claim area with a 1" gap from being smashed on the edge ......you might understand why it's a big deal to have the bolt out of the rifle! The rifles were not damaged, but a loose bolt could easily have been lost.

I have never heard of anyone losing the bolt while it was in the rifle.......can't say the same about bolts that were taken out of the rifle!!

I can't dispute this, but ya shoulda bought the Tuffpak.

quote:

Originally posted by akpls:
I can't dispute this, but ya shoulda bought the Tuffpak.

Thanks to Delta, I now have a Starlite case and I'm quite happy with it.....I know the TuffPak is "the thing to have" around here, but personally, I think the TuffPak is WAY overpriced for what it is! The first time some wingnut cuts it open because they can't get the cylinder lock open to inspect the contents..... the case is junk! I know they aren't "suppose" to do it......but I'm also a realist.......

quote:

Originally posted by 86thecat:
GonHuntin,
I agree having the bolt loose in a gun case seems like a good way to loose it if the case is damaged.
Make sure you have some heavy plastic tie-wraps with you and secure the bolt to the rifle sling if they make you remove it (or just do it before hand).

As Will stated, there is no regulation requiring that the bolt be removed......so why would I wire tie it to the sling???...Not only do I not want to lose the bolt, I don't want it beating against my rifle either!.....I don't "play nice" with idiots......it doesn't bother me one bit to tell someone that they are clueless and to bring me a supervisor......it helps to have a printout of the airline policy in hand before check-in......

quote:

Originally posted by GonHuntin:
.....I don't "play nice" with idiots......it doesn't bother me one bit to tell someone that they are clueless and to bring me a supervisor......it helps to have a printout of the airline policy in hand before check-in......

This may work in the States, but it may not get you very far in some of the Third World. There are places where they don't give a rats butt what you have. You hassle them, they hassle you. Kinda like the indignant Frenchman I was behind once in the Tananarive airport. The counter agent just summoned up a few of the local gendarmes and they carted his huffy butt right back out the door.

I always carry the TSA and the airline regulations. I have never had to show them.
Having a smile, and being friendly goes a long way. My bags have been overweight many times, I have never been charged a fee. I have had "more" guns than the "rules" say, never a problem.
Pre 911 I once flew with 180 lbs of ammo, no problems. I have seldom flown with only 11 lbs.
Recently I flew with 65 lbs of ammo. Not a question, not a problem. TSA did open a sealed case of 45 ACP, they did not open sealed 223 cases.
I have found the TSA folks to be very friendly.
I will also add this, the Tuf-Pak is well worth the money as It allows me to carry what I need.
Sometimes TSA wants to look inside, sometimes the X-Ray is enough.

quote:

Originally posted by akpls:

This may work in the States, but it may not get you very far in some of the Third World.

Point Taken.....but then this thread is about TSA in ATLANTA.....ummm.....that is in the states, right??? Other countries, other rules......only a fool would intentionally cause problems in another country!

The only problem I've ever had trying to fly with guns was returning to Atlanta from J'Berg......after clearing customs, when I went to recheck my guns the Delta clerk insisted that the "firearms" tag went on the outside of the case......I was just about to ask for a supervisor when one walked up and told the clerk that the tag goes inside the case.......


As far as the tuffpak goes.....read Russell's account of losing the keys to his TuffPak on the way to Africa......he had to cut the lock out to access his rifle.......he now has a $250-$300 case that can't be locked and can't be repaired! His fault, but he would be in exactly the same situation if TSA or another security group decided they need to inspect the contents of his case and couldn't get a key from him. I've heard all the stories about how great they are, I'm still not sold.

I have yet to have a problem with my guns, its my lovely face and cute smile, or maybe its the cute way I present myself to the ladies..OR maybe its because I carry a set of regulations in my carry on!!, Naw it wouldn't be that its got to be the former....but I know Will and none of the former would work for him, he is ugly, ugly!!

I have had a tuff pak since the day of introduction some years ago, its been to Africa more than 30 times best I recall and that does not include trips all over the world and the USA...I carry a key in my pocket, one in my shaving kit, one in my luggage...I have yet to lose any of them...

Traveling with guns both here and abroad you put the red tag in the gun case, lock it and check it all the way, and no one will ever open it...Not so luggage they will open it every time almost, and leave you a note and your cut lock...thus the airline combination keys I use as this solves that problem....

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I carry a key in my pocket, one in my shaving kit, one in my luggage...I have yet to lose any of them...

Traveling with guns both here and abroad you put the red tag in the gun case, lock it and check it all the way, and no one will ever open it...

Ray

Maybe one of these days you will figure out that just because it has never happened to you doesn't mean it has never happened...........

quote:

he now has a $250-$300 case that can't be locked and can't be repaired!

All he needs to do is buy another lid. So it is not a total loss.

Regards,

Terry

Terry Carr,

I cannot imagine a nicer person and a more professional agent than Tommy. For you to bad mouth him shows you are a complete horses ass. have you ever even met him? I doubt it.

Will,

Keep telling airport personnel they are full of s**t. That is a great example to set for hunters.

Who is Tommy?

quote:

Originally posted by DC300:
Terry Carr,

I cannot imagine a nicer person and a more professional agent than Tommy. For you to bad mouth him shows you are a complete horses ass. have you ever even met him? I doubt it.

Yes I have met him and that meeting is the basis for my opinion.

Regards,

Terry

Can you request to be there when TSA opens you gun case and checked bag to check it? I'd hate to see my bag show up with out my ammo or my gun case not be properly closed and locked. I'll be flying from Seattle WA to Atlanta. Will TSA recheck my guns and bags before they get on the plane to Joberg?

quote:

Originally posted by Donato:
Can you request to be there when TSA opens you gun case and checked bag to check it? I'd hate to see my bag show up with out my ammo or my gun case not be properly closed and locked. I'll be flying from Seattle WA to Atlanta. Will TSA recheck my guns and bags before they get on the plane to Joberg?

You should be there when TSA checks your bags, but they can still open them up again later if someone gets curious. (This is based on only my one trip, so I may be mistaken.) If you are checking your bags all the way through they should not need to be re-checked in Atlanta. If you are claiming them because you are spending the night in Atlanta or something like that you will have to re-check them.

You should be able to confirm this with your travel agent.

Not sure about Seattle, but in Portland (PDX) I have been able to watch as the TSA guys opened the case, as I had to give them the keys. I was a few feet away, but there.

If you check your bags all the way through to your final desitination, there should be no reason for the TSA to look inside again. But I always put an extra set of locks inside the case, with prominant note asking the security personel to relock the case with the locks, if they had to cut them.

-Steve

Gon Huntin...it seems to me you just have a big hard on for Tuffpak. If so...no problem.
Now Russell lost his key and cut his own lock out. As soon as he got word to me we sent him a new top and keys so his case is NOT a loss.
I have owned a Starlight and the top would not match up to the bottom. What will you do when your Starlight will not lock up?
Tuffpak is the thing around here but just because the folks that own them...use them... and find them to be worth what they paid for them. It is most difficult to beat a satisfied end user.
If you are happy with your Starlight then that makes us all happy. The fact that you can not get as many firearms in one or pack as much gear in one has nothing to do with the fact that you like yours and that is all that counts.

I've flown out of JFK several times and never had a problem. Someone from the NYC police dept and TSA accompany me to a back room, ask me to open the case, inspect the gun and case, I close it up, lock it, and no problems.

Most people usually ask what I am hunting for and want to know details about hunting in Africa. As far as coming back into the US, I usually have been assigned to a line of one and clear customs in about 10 minutes. Sorry no nightmare stories from either end.

quote:

Originally posted by DC300:
Terry Carr,

I cannot imagine a nicer person and a more professional agent than Tommy. For you to bad mouth him shows you are a complete horses ass. have you ever even met him? I doubt it.

Hey, DC:
That should be "horse's" ass.
You're welcome.

quote:

Originally posted by Harry:
Gon Huntin...it seems to me you just have a big hard on for Tuffpak. If so...no problem.
Now Russell lost his key and cut his own lock out. As soon as he got word to me we sent him a new top and keys so his case is NOT a loss.
I have owned a Starlight and the top would not match up to the bottom. What will you do when your Starlight will not lock up?
Tuffpak is the thing around here but just because the folks that own them...use them... and find them to be worth what they paid for them. It is most difficult to beat a satisfied end user.
If you are happy with your Starlight then that makes us all happy. The fact that you can not get as many firearms in one or pack as much gear in one has nothing to do with the fact that you like yours and that is all that counts.

Harry

A "big hard on for TuffPaks"??? Hmmm, every time someone asks about a guncase.....you pimp your tuffpaks......I figure if I post the other side of the story once in awhile.....that's just providing a little balance.....a "big hard on".....I don't think so! Even when someone asks about a specific brand of case, you and a bunch of others usually jump into the discussion proclaiming how the TuffPak is the only way to go......hey, I guess if I paid $300+ for a plastic case that should sell for $75 I'd proclaim it's greatness too!


My Starlight will carry and protect 2 rifles......that's the maximum allowed by most airlines in one case, so the fact that you can get more rifles in a tuffpak is moot......The only job my guncase has is to keep my guns safe......not to hold a bunch of other stuff....I pack the rest of my gear in another bag where it belongs. If and when my starlight case fails, I'll send it back for a free replacement.....Starlight cases are lifetime guaranteed and are available for a little more than 1/3 the price of a TuffPak.

I get really tired of those who post to the board and insist that the TuffPak is the ONLY case that will safely deliver your guns.......even the cheap aluminum case that I mentioned earlier in the thread did it's job......true, it was damaged by the Delta baggage apes, but it protected the rifles from damage.....I've read accounts of rifles being severely damaged in TuffPaks too and it's always the same old story....."the owner didn't pack it correctly"......it's NEVER a TuffPak failure.....forget about the fact that you MUST pack stuff around your guns in a tuffpak because there is nothing to hold them in place if you don't!....it's an empty plastic tube for crying out loud.....maybe the Tuffpak *is* a great product, but there is NO reason it should sell for the price it does.......face it, rotational moulded plastic just isn't that expensive to make......so, if someone wants to spend 2 to 3 times what a product is worth just so they can say they are in the "TuffPak club".....that's fine with me.......but let's have a little truth in advertising here and say how things really are......a TuffPak may be a good piece of equipment, but it isn't the only good solution to the problem of transporting firearms safely.....

Harry, I also seem to remember you being a bit upset when I brought it to your attention that your price on TuffPaks was 10-15% higher than an online competitor.......guess what, according to your website price of $335 you are still $47 higher than Midsouth! Could it be that you are still just a bit sore over that conversation??? If I remember correctly, and I'm sure I do, I posted to the board asking if anyone had a used TuffPak for sale.......you left me a message to call you......when I did, you offered to sell me a well used case for around $20 less than you wanted for a new one.....but you tried your best to sell me a new case.....that's when I mentioned that I could buy a new one for less than your used case! You wanted to know where and said you were going to have a talk with NalPak over MidSouth's pricing.........

I also remember looking you up at the Tulsa gunshow and asking to see a TuffPak.....despite having a table full of guns for sale, you didn't have a single TuffPak with you.....if they are so convienient for carrying guns......why didn't you use them to bring guns to the Tulsa show??? Could it be because they are too bulky and impractical to use as a travel case unless you are flying??? Most of us don't fly with guns every year or multiple times per year......some of us may only need a case for airline travel every three or four years.....I'd prefer to spend $100-$125 on a Starlight case that I will also use when going to the range.....than $335 for a TuffPak that will sit in the corner because it's impractical to use it for a quick trip to the range...... because it's too big and you have to pack stuff around the guns to keep them secure.

Finally......maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen any information showing the military transporting sniper rifles or other sensitive equipment in TuffPaks.......have you??

I'm sure you are a "good old boy" and all that, but excuse me if I don't take as absolute gospel something I'm being told by someone who is looking to seperate me from some of my folding money!

You know, you've really got to keep in mind the mentality of those at the airport. Those ain't PhD's you're dealing with. Remember, they're the same folks who've kept U.S. Senators and Congressional Medal of Honor winners from making their flights. They perform segregation screening on 68 year-old white women while freely waving 17-50 year-old men with swarthy complexions through without so much as a second glance. They take infants (and their mothers) off of planes because the infant's name appears on the "no fly" list. Telling them they're "full of sh*t, being surly, displaying your intellectual superiority, and just generally throwing your testosterone around with them will get you about as far as it will with a Chicago cop on Saturday night. Try to keep in mind how you'd like to be treated, regardless of how they're acting, and save yourself a lot of potential greif.
Dave

[

GonHuntin
Evidenly you have read few, if any, of my comments about gun cases in previous post. More than once I have said there are many good cases on the market today and many of them I have used such as Americase, Cascade and Pelican. I have yet to have damage to any of my firearms in any of them to date.
Next...I failed to see / hear and would like too...any instance where there has been damage to a firearm in a Tuffpak. I have sold (excuse me...pimped) many of them and I am in the Tuffpak booth at Dallas, Houston and Reno and I have yet to have a person come by and tell me of one instance where damage was done to their firearms while using this case. Quite the opposite in fact. I have had many people tell various horrow stories of Tuffpaks being run over by trucks, dropped off the loading belts while being loaded into the belly of the plane, thrown out of the baggage train and laying in the rain on the runway etc. etc. Not ONE firearm was damaged.
As to PIMPING this case...one does not have to PIMP anything that is good and that works as advertised. At no time do I claim this case to be anything other than a empty hole in to which to fly your firearms AND GEAR. I don't tout it as a going to the range case...what the hell do you need a hard case to go to the range for anyway? I don't travel to gun shows in it as each gun is in its own soft case and on my cart for the 5 tables of guns I have in Tulsa.
I don't sell Tuffpaks at any gun show period.
I don't care what Mid South sells the case for as I can and do meet anyone's price on this case (not to mention that I ALWAYS have the case in stock and are you sure Mid South does?)
Now as to sniper gear being in Starlight...whoopee...that means that maybe Starlight got a military contract with some branch of the govt. Pardon me if I am not impressed with that. Pelican would work as well.
What I am impressed with is that the majority of the gunmakers today that travel to SHOT, Reno SCI, the IWA show in Germany etc., etc. send their firearms in Tuffpak. That includes makers such as Purdy, Holland, A&S, Brown, Kreighoff, Dakota, Browning, Swarovski, Leupold, Searcy, Westly Richard and many more. I don't guess some of those high dollar rifles, shotguns and optics count as "sensitive gear". I forgot to mention that I sold those empty holes on wheels to the majority of those manuf. and that is why I know what they use.
Tuffpak has all the lifetime warranties too.
Once again my wife and I are off to Africa. We will travel with one standard Tuffpak, my wife's large handbag and me with my daypack. We will hunt two countries for 24 days. It will be very nice not to have our hands full carrying gear about in the various airports.

Mims, have a great trip...Hope she, your better half out shoots you..


Mike

gonhuntin...Just call tuffpak and buy a new top.. very simple...


Mike

Harry & Gonhuntin:
Would you guys take it outside please?
Thank you.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by almostacowboy:
Hey, DC:
That should be "horse's" ass.
You're welcome.

After posting this you are telling us to take it outside???


Can't a guy have fun giging old "Harry the TuffPak Pimp" every once in awhile??

Retreever

Bet the replacement lid costs more than I paid for my Starlight case........but at least it can be replaced.......

I sure wish Tuffpak would redesign their case to take a padlock. That would make me feel A LOT BETTER. I own 2 Starlight cases and 1 Tuffpak.