We hear lots of stories about mishaps by clients, but of course the PH is untouchable, shoots like John Wayne. Fortunately he seldom has to shoot during a safari, so the client is the one that is under pressure to perform, who risks missing animals – statistical logic. When the PH has to do a running shot or 500 yard shot on some wounded animal every now and then, there are plenty of excuses why he missed.
Past weekend this PH was client. We hunted at give-away prices on 6000 ha of thorn bush on a sheep and cattle “open farmâ€. This means low fences (non-existent to kudu), thus everybody’s kudu, not “put and take†stuff. These animals are plenty, but they start running just before dawn and stop running just after dark – survival mode. I had excellent dead rest, was not out of breath, did not have buck fever (no time for that!), 190 yards. The 338 WM 250 gr, core-bonded shot was high, probably between vitals and spine of a huge black bull. Hours later we ran out of permission from friendly neighbours. That kudu ran to Australia.
My buddy Wimpie downed his bull with one shot – but he was just lucky, cause he is a real bad shot. First time I see him hit any target.

So much for the hot-shot PH when he becomes the client.
Lochi.

Thanks for sharing. Too bad about your Kudu- will turn some heads from dedicated .338 WM users- I would have thought a 250gr. bonded bullet between vitals and spine would have killed that monster pretty quick- Heck, I have shot Deer in that area with a .243 Win and they didn't go 50 yards.

Important lesson here:

No matter who you are (PH, Client, John Wayne wannabe), how good a shot you were last year, how much shooting practice you've had in your life, how much hunting experience...PRACTICE regularly, PRACTICE from field positions, PRACTICE with your hunting rifle and ammo!

There! My first post in about 4 weeks! Working hard and shot a great Turkey thanks in part to some of the tips from this forum

It would be interesting to know what make of core-bonded bullet you used on the kudu you lost.

Also, what make and type of bullet was used by your buddy?

I had the same thing happen on my first trip to SA. Turned out my bullets were not opening - Nosler had just come out with the Protected Point and they were too damned hard.

If the shot wasn't dead through the heart or a major artery they just ran off.

Drilled a monster warthog end-for-end with pencil-sized holes in and out - that's when I figured it out. (Actually on the second warthog I got - both were through-and-through with no expansion.)

Made for a miserable trip!

Thats why they call it hunting, not shooting game me thinks. Its happened to everyone,dont fret . A plain old core-locked or power point would have opened up better at that range. We choose these new bullets because the do this or that when the old timers in the right cal. does just fine on light skinned and boned game. Charlie

PHs, are like anybody else can shoot and some cannot...fact of life..

PHs, like all of us, have a bad day of shooting from time to time for a number of reasons...

None of us are infallable.

Don G when was it that those protected points first came out? I have several boxes from a few years back that I had planned on taking on an upcomming hunt

Atkinson
one of us
posted 12 May 2005 08:42
PHs, are like anybody else can shoot and some cannot...fact of life..

PHs, like all of us, have a bad day of shooting from time to time for a number of reasons...

None of us are infallable.

The question here is: Who is which type?

Some PH’s who can shoot have “off†days - and they then tend to miss more than hit, and possibly wound.

Some PH’s who cannot shoot have “off†days - and they then actually hit things they shoot at, and possibly actually kill.

Wimpie & Lochi, who fits where?

Andrew

Jagter,
The 250gr core-bonded was by Claw in East London (Andre vd Merwe), but I am not blaming the bullet when shot placement was bad. I have killed gemsbok, kudu, red hartebeest, blue wildebeest, black wildebeest, eland, etc successfully with this bullet past few years.
Wimpie used 250gr core-bonded from Rhino, much the same thing I’d say, except he used a 338 Lapua. I’d guess muzzle velocity is about 3000 vs. my 2500. Distance was 80 yards vs. my 190 yards, so expansion might have come into it.
The landowner theorised that the bullet could have gone above the spine through the hump - I doubt that though.

Resilience of animals and shot placement can combine into some weird outcomes sometimes. In Dec 04 I killed a buffalo cow with one arrow from a stalk. In Jan 05 I shot 6 arrows into a blesbuck from the comfort of a hide. Hours later I killed a black wildebeest with one arrow and a zebra with one arrow.

I am putting this kudu behind me now.
Lochi.

quote:

Originally posted by D Hunter:
Don G when was it that those protected points first came out? I have several boxes from a few years back that I had planned on taking on an upcomming hunt

I believe it was early 2000 - for sure after Thanksgiving 1999 when I got those bullets. I hear they opened well at 3100 fps, but they were miserable at 2700 fps from my 308 Win. I wouldn't shoot them even from a 300 WinMag after my experience with them. I might try them if I had an ultraMag or equivalent velocity 30 cal.

Factory Marking:
30 caliber/180 grain
(.308) P Pt.
Nosler Part number 25396.

Midway sticker (I think) says "30 cal 180 gr PPT-50" on the two boxes I have remaining.

I did not record the lot number from the box of the ones that failed to open. I have GX09F23 and BY01F211 remaining. (The latter may be a later batch?? The lot number sticker is printed differently. They were all bought at the same time.)

Interesting note: the PH had heard of a "hard batch" of Noslers from one of the African PH magazines before I got there. He just assumed I was missing at first. After I had a couple of heart shot recoveries that ran over 150 yards without a single drop of blood trail we began to question the bullets. The animals showed NO reaction to the shot.

I didn't even know the Protected Points existed, had thought I ordered regular Partitions.

Since I don't always make perfect heart shots it was a miserable trip.

Hope this helps,
Don

quote:

Originally posted by Lochi:
That kudu ran to Australia.

Haven't seen him yet. Pity because kudu steaks are quite nice.

Hmm.. Don I got mine(200 gr protected points) in late '98 or early '99. They worked well in my 300 win mag at a little under 2900 fps. I am loading them at about 2600 for my 30-06. Maybe I had better shoot some of these into water jugs or something. Were the ones you were using 180's or 200's? Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:

quote:

Originally posted by Lochi:
That kudu ran to Australia.

Haven't seen him yet. Pity because kudu steaks are quite nice.

Lochi forgot to tell you guys/girls about the kudu cow I shot for the land owner +/- 200 meter off hand, so I recken I was lucky two days in a row. The bull was also a off hand shot. The kudu wors is made and taste good and biltong(jerky) will be ready shortly.

Wimpie
The winter is here let the sport begin.
Next hunt 21/05/05

Wimpie,
Just exit my life.

quote:

Originally posted by D Hunter:
Hmm.. Don I got mine(200 gr protected points) in late '98 or early '99. They worked well in my 300 win mag at a little under 2900 fps. I am loading them at about 2600 for my 30-06. Maybe I had better shoot some of these into water jugs or something. Were the ones you were using 180's or 200's? Thanks

I was using 180 grain in a 308. I'd certainly check your 200 grains at the lower velocity of the 30-06. Milk jugs ("thin skin") are a pretty good test. My 180 grain P Pts from a 308 would pass through 5 milk jugs and disappear...as I found out later.

Don

I have had the misfortune of being the client who couldnt shoot. I was on a deer/pig hunt and the first few shots at pigs were good ,some decent offhand shots. Then my shots all started getting realy wild ,all over the place.(later found to be an expensive scope which let go) Things werent improved by the guide screaming "shoot now ,shoot now" as soon as he could see the deer through the bush in the distance and I couldnt. Luckily ,I bought along a back up rifle. It was my first hunt with the back up rifle and it had only just been sighted in. I lined up on an easy shot at a pig. I saw it was a good hit in the chest but the pig just ran. This caused the guide to throw a hissy fit about how I missed. Next time I lined up on a deer I went to load another round and it wouldnt feed from the magazine. The compressed powder charge had pushed the bullet out when I fired the previous shot. By this stage (after a few more "shoot it now" episodes at deer running away through the bush at 300-400yds) the guide was turning purple. Things finaly came to a head when we saw a decent sized pig running away at about 2-300 yds. As he was screeming at me to fire ,all I could see in the scope was his bloody dog between me and the pig. I held the shot and since he was sprinting after it about 50 yds ahead of me I ran as well. After about one mile sprint ,I couldnt breath let along shoot a running pig at 300yds. Meanwhile ,he was standing between me and the pig (and his dog) screeming to shoot. I was seriously considering taking the shot as the bullet would have hit the pig after passing through the guide and the dog. This was too much for him so he pretty much told me how bad I was and how can he make a living when I,m shooting like this.( Which was strange as I was paying him and there were no trophy fees on pigs).
Next time I went hunting by myself,all my shots were good ,off hand running shots etc.

quote:

Sympathy please ,I have champagne tastes and beer budget

cr500,

You are a soul brother: I too, have Champagne taste and beer budget! My sincere sympathy and understanding.

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

In the Sept of 2002 I was hunting in RSA with a friend who is a dead shot from any position,in any weather,with any rifle under any coditons of stress. I once saw him shoot a Buff at 80yds-first shot at rest,second shot on a dead run and both were in 2" of each other.
On this day however he missed 3 impala at ranges from 80 to 130 yds. Just missed! He said "My last miss was in 1993 at ---".
It happens even to the hunting gods.