The discussion of Mugabe got me thinking.

Has anyone got any information on the results of humans/poachers/Mugabes, or other lower 2 legged life forms getting hit by 375 H&H's?

One esteemed gentleman has insisted that even with a center body hit, catching the pelvis, the perpetrator might be able to fire back at you, provided he had ingested enough drugs.

Another has suggested that a 375 would just
"pass through" without doing any real damage.

I was wondering if anyone had real results, like police, or some such stats, on the real effects of big bore rifles on human beings?

Do they perform 'one shot' stops?
gs

Soc - First, I would cut your barrel down to a manageable, but legal 18". At this length, a flash hider is very important to protect your night vision. Then, I would adjust a synthetic stock length of pull to just over 12 inches to ensure quick shouldering of the weapon. Forget any recoil pad which could catch on your clothing and use standard trijicon open night sights. Then, I would select a load which produces sub-sonic velocities from a 350 grain soft. I would carefully score the softs so that they open reliably at 700fps. Forget BC concerns since you will be facing CQC conditions. Then, with duct tape, I would tape a laser-pointer and a mini mag light about three quarters down the barrel. You can install a Picatinny style accessory rail, however this is expensive.

In case you should get into an extended fire fight, you should use a stock cartridge keeper in order to carry up to 10 extra rounds. You might want to consider mixing softs and solids in case you find yourself shooting through car doors and such. This would give you firepower that is just not available from most any other weapon - certainly not from any weeny pistol.

Once your gun is complete, I would have the whole gun Teflon coated in a mat finish. This would keep any glint from giving away your position or alerting the bad guys that you are packing heat. Teflon is also very beneficial if you find yourself outside on an extended still watch in bad weather.

If you have the luxury of time, proper clothing can be extremely important. SOG boots, dark clothing and a bandito/ninja styled face wear keeps you well hidden. Other home defense items you should be carrying with you would be a combat knife, a piano wire garrote, and non-lethal gear like a stun gun and teargas. The large teargas/pepper spray canisters used for bear protection are especially good.

On the upper end of the scale, many homeowners are incorporating safe room technology in their homes. This include the addition of hardened hinges for all doors and simple kevlar coatings on bedroom doors. There is no point going to all this effort to protect yourself with the proper firepower only to get shot through your door without being able to return fire. In extreme cases, some folks are resorting to level three body protection. The new line of body protection from HomeDefense is both light and affordable. However, the sky is the limit on types of defensive protection.

Above anything else, practice is vital. You can erect a small shoot house out of old tires and practice clearing rooms. This will sharpen your stalking skills and will kelp coordinate your movements. I know too many people that invest huge sums of money to protect their family, yet don't invest the proper amount of time training - what is the point in this???

Hope this helps....

ROFL:
ZD, that was awesome.!!!!

My real point was simple: What happens when a human gets hit with a high powered, large caliber rifle, at near point blank range?

Now, we here all this stuff, and, my friend, local swat, bombs, detective, etc. suggests the 375 is, if you will excuse the pun, OVERKILL, and says 308 is plenty, or 30-06.

I'm just curious how guys move with a 2.5 inch 375 hole in them, and what such a bullet does to the body, at high velocity???

I know this sounds weird, but a bunch of people have a show me kind of attitude...not me though...

gs

Plenty of people have been hit with .50BMG rounds. Of course they are FMJ and a bigger / faster /heavier projectile, but they removed appendages from torsos or even removed portions of torso and I think one could safely say that Death is just about instantaneous. I Could not imagine the .375 being too much less effective and have no doubt it would be more effective than a .30-06.
However dead is dead, and just like golf, there is no room on the scorecard for explainations.

Gents,
I recently concluded a career as a USMC infantry officer. Not to waste time with borish and sordid details of terminal ballistics, I would just remind you that the human body is as resilient as any creature walking. We all know that game animals don't always fall, others survive catastrophic hits at least for a while, and humans are not really that much different. The comment about being able to "still get a shot off" is absolutely true. If an animal can kick a human can pull a trigger. Yes, there are a lot of variables involved with effectiveness, but talk to any of your war vet buddies and ask them about resilience in battle. A .375 is a great round but it's still small in relation to a 185 pound man pumping adrenaline. Fatal is not the key. Down and out is the key. Ask your swat pals about the 2" band in a hostage situation and angles of deflection, etc.... Caliber can help but placement to turn out the lights immediately is paramount. Enough from me.
By the way, I'm a new guy. Great forum. Just ordered a .376 steyr. I'm now a pro dog trainer (police and hunting dogs) and hunting guide in Florida. I appreciate the education and hope I can add something.
J

Welcome to the forum. You just added lots that I appreciated.

/

Those of you that have personal knowledge of such large caliber rifle hits:

What sort of damage would occur on a torso, or pelvis hit? Conjecture?

My question is the effect of a centerline hit, pelvis, or higher?

Seems to me if a 375 will take a guys arm off, a hit around the spine, or hitting bones, is going to put the person out, through shock, slap, etc. and most likely, dead.

I'm also wondering what the effect of fairly heavy hollow point bullets at 2700 fps would have?

Will they open up, etc.?

Thanks to all who replied, and to Dogwatcher as well. I'd love to be training dogs. Sounds like GREAT fun.

gs

Socrates, you have a morbid sense of discussion. However having killed a half dozen deer with the round with soft bullets of one flavor or another, the hits you are describing will definitely kill in short order. I have had several deer run 15-20 yards. Some have laid down but flopped a bit. That means that if you have a guy who is up on some substance that keeps pain out of the equation he could easily get off a round or two. As above stated even with a big gun you will have to hit the control tower to instantly turn out the lights. Remember, hunt only what is legal. "D"

I thought this was an "African big game hunting" forum... And to answer your question: I don't think that a hit from a .375 (or any other calibre as well) will improve ones health!

The posts about Mugabe made me stretch the definition of the forum.

Thanks for the replies. I gather the bullet has to hit sufficently close to the brain, or spinal column, to turn off the lights??

gs

It's like DogWorker says "if an animal can kick a human can pull the trigger" You have to kill the brain NOW OR impact the target so hard that it is thrown off its feet and
mentally stunned until death. During Veitnam we learned much by using the .458x1&1/2" with 350 grain bullets at low velocity (silenced)to great effect. No target reaction other that being slammed as if hit by a frieght train.
Welcome to the forum DogWorker.

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Doug Humbarger
NRA Life member

[This message has been edited by Bear Claw (edited 04-18-2002).]

Socrates,
The factual information you are looking for is available in a myriad of publications-some good, some not so good. All I was trying to say is that regardless of caliber or even quarry, The Reverand Sir Murphy usually will have his hand somewhere in the equation. Couple Murphy with the will or instinct to live (or win) and you have a formidable situation not so easily brushed aside by the "bigger is better mentality"- a theory to which I subscribe- when taken in cautious moderation.
Your screen names' philosophy is profound, but his assumptions of what was "true" earned him a death sentence.That's why there are such great discussions on this site about "the best ___ for___". One man's rationale is another's foolishness. Hence, great debates.
Enough, I must be punch drunk from writing all night.
J

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Never do something once you're not willing to do the rest of your life!
www.jeffsdogworks.com

I had a PH tell me about a tracker that was accidently shot with a .375H&H. The rifle was thrown over the back(good, safe firearm handle A+) and it was loaded. The tracker did not catch it, and when it landed, butt first a round went off. It caught the man in the chin, and proced to "take the top of his head off"

Pick up a copy of "Hatchers Notebook" That should answer your question.

Having seen several deaths caused my high power rifles. The wounds look a lot like you get from hitting a deer in the same areas. I have know people to get gut shot with 30 06 30 30 and live if they are close enough to medical help. Just as with animals if you do not take out something vital humans can go a long ways. being shot with some big rounds.
<> One of the most impressive I heard about was a guy testing a 50 cal bolt action the bolt let lose and took him threw the pelvis he lived and walk to the ride to the hospital that was over two lbs of metal.