quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
Interesting. How long is a hunt like that? Is it better to break them down financially or do it all at once?

quote:

Originally posted by Thor Kirchner:
One more bit of advice is to pay the extra to hunt in an areas where your success rate is high.
Going cheap will often mean you have to go several times and this would end up costing far more than paying a high price for a high quality area.

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
For the big 5 does it matter which one?

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I'll never complete the "big five" because I have no desire to hunt rhino under current conditions.

quote:

Originally posted by M.Shy:
I think #1 for me is jumbo and then buff and then kudu
Thing is, instead of mark animal off your list is that you cheat yourself of gaining experience of hunting species numerous times and thus figuring out different experience on different hunts in different settings and that to me is the ultimate experience and that is elephant hunting

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I'll never complete the "big five" because I have no desire to hunt rhino under current conditions.

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
Can’t disagree. I don’t think I’ll be cheating myself of anything though. I got about 20 real nice plains animals and multiple buffalo and the traditional African slam seems like a logical if not popular goal these days

quote:

Originally posted by M.Shy:
I think #1 for me is jumbo and then buff and then kudu
Thing is, instead of mark animal off your list is that you cheat yourself of gaining experience of hunting species numerous times and thus figuring out different experience on different hunts in different settings and that to me is the ultimate experience and that is elephant hunting

quote:

Originally posted by Kpoynter:

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I'll never complete the "big five" because I have no desire to hunt rhino under current conditions.

What I did, which turned out to be a great experience, was an archery stalk with arrows I rigged for tranqualizers
I didn’t have interest in killing a Rhino so I found arrows (wide target shafts) that perfectly held Pneudarts..
I ordered some and practiced out to 40 yards.
They then loaded them with tranquilizer in the field and we had a great hunt stalking on foot.
Darted the rhino frankly too close (5-7 yards) because it turned down the trail I was kneeling on behind a small bush (which felt very small)

I tell the story because I don’t think that’s something folks would even think of as an option and it was great…..and no dead rhino.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Technically, you can also hunt Rhino in Namibia. The only black rhino that have been imported into the US have been from there.

If you are ok with a farm raised rhino, the white rhino hunt on a big enough farm is like a wild hunt, except they pretty much know where to find it… read some old rhino hunting literature and you will see that finding “the right one” was what you hunted over- they are pretty territorial and once you find them, the hunt proceeds the same way. It is a huge price difference.

As far as the rest of the big 5, it kind of depends if you want a one and done hunt or if you are ok with doing it over time.

Quotas are fairly strict especially with cats.

My favorite hunts were the full bag hunts I did in Tanzania.

You can do full bag type hunts in other countries, but that’s not really how they sell them.

When I started, the cats were very hit or miss, and while elephant were on license in Tanzania, success rates were very low. Now, lion are more numerous, and the PH’s are better at aging them, so success rates for lion are better. Lion success is good in all the range states on the better managed concessions. (Good in my mind being better than 50% success rates)

Elephant your big issue will be size. They are overpopulated in their range, but finding a really large ivory old bull is both time and money intensive… but if you are just after a old male, odds are pretty good if you can walk.

Leopard are very concession dependent. I have my lowest success rate with them… but some places they are high success hunts. Generally speaking the higher cost places are higher success rates.

If you are trying to have the best success rates and least expensive options, you are best off hunting each separately.

If I was going to do it again, I’d do a full bag hunt in one of the better northern Tanzanian concessions, or someplace in Zim like the Bubye or Save conservatory. I think you could also do it in Zambia, but that’s a bit shaky at the moment.

Then schedule an extra week or two and stop in Namibia or South Africa and add the Rhino. If you go to the Save, you will get to (most likely) interact with wild rhino, even if they are not huntable. I hunted there in 07, 09, and 23. I saw black and white rhino each time, and last year we got chased by a black rhino cow while on foot… you don’t get a more “wild rhino hunting” experience, even if you don’t shoot one!

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
If the proceeds from a rhino hunt go directly to rhino conservation why would there be a problem?

quote:

Originally posted by Kpoynter:

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I'll never complete the "big five" because I have no desire to hunt rhino under current conditions.

What I did, which turned out to be a great experience, was an archery stalk with arrows I rigged for tranqualizers
I didn’t have interest in killing a Rhino so I found arrows (wide target shafts) that perfectly held Pneudarts..
I ordered some and practiced out to 40 yards.
They then loaded them with tranquilizer in the field and we had a great hunt stalking on foot.
Darted the rhino frankly too close (5-7 yards) because it turned down the trail I was kneeling on behind a small bush (which felt very small)

I tell the story because I don’t think that’s something folks would even think of as an option and it was great…..and no dead rhino.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Technically, you can also hunt Rhino in Namibia. The only black rhino that have been imported into the US have been from there.

If you are ok with a farm raised rhino, the white rhino hunt on a big enough farm is like a wild hunt, except they pretty much know where to find it… read some old rhino hunting literature and you will see that finding “the right one” was what you hunted over- they are pretty territorial and once you find them, the hunt proceeds the same way. It is a huge price difference.

As far as the rest of the big 5, it kind of depends if you want a one and done hunt or if you are ok with doing it over time.

Quotas are fairly strict especially with cats.

My favorite hunts were the full bag hunts I did in Tanzania.

You can do full bag type hunts in other countries, but that’s not really how they sell them.

When I started, the cats were very hit or miss, and while elephant were on license in Tanzania, success rates were very low. Now, lion are more numerous, and the PH’s are better at aging them, so success rates for lion are better. Lion success is good in all the range states on the better managed concessions. (Good in my mind being better than 50% success rates)

Elephant your big issue will be size. They are overpopulated in their range, but finding a really large ivory old bull is both time and money intensive… but if you are just after a old male, odds are pretty good if you can walk.

Leopard are very concession dependent. I have my lowest success rate with them… but some places they are high success hunts. Generally speaking the higher cost places are higher success rates.

If you are trying to have the best success rates and least expensive options, you are best off hunting each separately.

If I was going to do it again, I’d do a full bag hunt in one of the better northern Tanzanian concessions, or someplace in Zim like the Bubye or Save conservatory. I think you could also do it in Zambia, but that’s a bit shaky at the moment.

Then schedule an extra week or two and stop in Namibia or South Africa and add the Rhino. If you go to the Save, you will get to (most likely) interact with wild rhino, even if they are not huntable. I hunted there in 07, 09, and 23. I saw black and white rhino each time, and last year we got chased by a black rhino cow while on foot… you don’t get a more “wild rhino hunting” experience, even if you don’t shoot one!

I darted my Rhino to complete my Big 5. I don't regret it at all. Going in, I thought it was gonna be a sketchy, fish in a barrel deal. IIRC it was 6K.

It turned out to be a very exciting day. The dart can't go far and can not be shot through any bush. I had a ball.

I did My Elephant in Botswana in NG41 in 2006.

I did a 37 or 38 day stint in Zambia in 2005 to hunt, Sitatunga, Blue Duiker, Puku in Tondwa, then chartered from Kasama to Luangwa and did a 21 day Lion, Leopard, Buffalo and heavy PG hunt.

The beginning of that hunt was a two day, 1000 kilometer drive with Terry Von Rooyen to Tondwa from Lusaka. Those African roads wear your ass down for that long. Back then, there was a Loooooong rough dirt road called Mporokosa road IIRC. It was 200-250 miles of 20-25 MPH.

Probably my richest, most memorable African hunt. A very close second would be my 21 day full bag hunt with Mike Fell in CAR.

Great topic, thanks for posting it. (Gunslinger)

quote:

Originally posted by Kpoynter:

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
If the proceeds from a rhino hunt go directly to rhino conservation why would there be a problem?

quote:

Originally posted by Kpoynter:

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I'll never complete the "big five" because I have no desire to hunt rhino under current conditions.

What I did, which turned out to be a great experience, was an archery stalk with arrows I rigged for tranqualizers
I didn’t have interest in killing a Rhino so I found arrows (wide target shafts) that perfectly held Pneudarts..
I ordered some and practiced out to 40 yards.
They then loaded them with tranquilizer in the field and we had a great hunt stalking on foot.
Darted the rhino frankly too close (5-7 yards) because it turned down the trail I was kneeling on behind a small bush (which felt very small)

I tell the story because I don’t think that’s something folks would even think of as an option and it was great…..and no dead rhino.

I don’t think there’s problem at all
I made a choice to not kill one personally
I think some feel there is no “sport” in the taking of a Rhino. They are one of a very few species from a bygone era
I was pointing out for those that lean that way I had a very good and perhaps unique hunt for one.
He had made the point of “under the current conditions” he had chosen not to…
Honestly 14 years ago there was not a “non trophy” hunt to my knowledge and trophy hunts were still all like $40k+ depending on size generally
I think I would have shot an old male that was dehorned

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
I’m sure the rhino will be last and will evaluate available options. Old dehorned bull fine with me as long as money goes into rhino conservation

quote:

Originally posted by Kpoynter:

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
If the proceeds from a rhino hunt go directly to rhino conservation why would there be a problem?

quote:

Originally posted by Kpoynter:

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I'll never complete the "big five" because I have no desire to hunt rhino under current conditions.

What I did, which turned out to be a great experience, was an archery stalk with arrows I rigged for tranqualizers
I didn’t have interest in killing a Rhino so I found arrows (wide target shafts) that perfectly held Pneudarts..
I ordered some and practiced out to 40 yards.
They then loaded them with tranquilizer in the field and we had a great hunt stalking on foot.
Darted the rhino frankly too close (5-7 yards) because it turned down the trail I was kneeling on behind a small bush (which felt very small)

I tell the story because I don’t think that’s something folks would even think of as an option and it was great…..and no dead rhino.

I don’t think there’s problem at all
I made a choice to not kill one personally
I think some feel there is no “sport” in the taking of a Rhino. They are one of a very few species from a bygone era
I was pointing out for those that lean that way I had a very good and perhaps unique hunt for one.
He had made the point of “under the current conditions” he had chosen not to…
Honestly 14 years ago there was not a “non trophy” hunt to my knowledge and trophy hunts were still all like $40k+ depending on size generally
I think I would have shot an old male that was dehorned

quote:

Most all of the white rhino are privately owned and most of the money generated goes into private pockets.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
I hope you took on Mark's offer in Makuti

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I'll never complete the "big five" because I have no desire to hunt rhino under current conditions.