The South african Rand has gone from 7.5/U$D or so for most of the last year to 10.5 now. A fall of some 50%.

South Africa works in Rand, the land is priced in Rand, the feed, the animals, the staff, the buildings, the vehicles. The whole lot.

So if your hunt is $ priced the PH/Outfitter is making a nice windfall.

I'd expect to see some of that reflected in lower $ pricing, I guess not all of it, that would be expecting too much, but a decent chunk of it.

I'm not seeing that...are you?

In 2002 it was 10 Rand to the USD also. I didn't see any change then-except up. I did get some bargins incountry though.

Kudus, elands and daily rates will likely remain the same. However, on the bright side, dinner for 4 at Joes Beer House will likely only be about $50 and you will be able to get 4 double scotches beside the fire for about $9.50 total including tip.

Of course they wont change their prices accordingly they are greedy just like everyone else. But I guess as long as they can get the price

In 2000/2001 the rand was 13-14 at it's highest. When it went dropped to 6 guys did not double their prices, yes there was a marginal increase, but not a 100% increase.

If an operator is charging a fair price in US$ what is the issue? If he lowers his prices to tie directly with the rand, can he also raise them with no notice right before you leave on your hunt?

Of course not! We would not stand for it!

We want him to promise us a price for a hunt a year from now, but we will not allow him the ability to adjust it with the rand.

So he is stuck in the middle. Not knowing what the rand will do 6 months to a year from now. He does not want to committ to prices that are below cost for a hunt so far out. Maybe this is a temporary change in the Rand? Nobody knows.

Everyone wants a discount if the rand favors the operator but we refuse to reciprocate if the rand reverses course. Not quite fair is it?

As far as marketing, very few people will buy a hunt without price certainty, so he is essentially prevented from advertising his rates in Rand to US hunters. We want to know what it is going to cost and no amount of change is acceptable to the average plainsgame hunter.

There are a few guys who are taking advantage of the low rand and asking you to pay 100% upfront. For that you get a discount. Not a bad deal, and I have stated in another thread that it is a pretty fair way to do business.

If you want a discount based on the rate of the rand, pay upfront so everyone knows what they are getting.

These things are never as easy as they first appear and the exchange rate is currently up and down like a whore's drawers. We're having the devils own job to sort out 09 prices and will probably have to warn some clients that prices may rise or fall dependent on the rate closer to the date of their hunt, which strikes me as the most sensible and fairest solution.

Also bear in mind that although the price of oil has halved in recent weeks, the fall in the Rand has meant we're still paying the previous higher price for fuel......... rumour has it that this might drop a bit in a week or two, but it's gonna depend on the exchange rates and od course, whether the price of oil goes up again as is rumoured. - also bear in mind that the falling exchange rate also increases the price of all imported goods.

I guess every company is gonna have to find their own solution.

A discont for prepayment is a fair deal and if many of the operators agree to that deal it would be appreciated.

I do remember that as the rand grew in strength against the dollar many RSA operators used that as an excuse to raise prices.

The only thing that help to feel better about the global economy is to go hunting my doctor says it takes my mind of everything

What mind?



Sorry buddy, I just couldn't resist it!

If inflation was the leading cause of prices of a hunt then Zimbabwe would be a free hunt.....and of course it's not.

If the Rand is devalued then more folks will want to go.....and the (relative) price will increase to offset the devaluation.

But for those that want to stay and see sights before and after a safari this does indeed pose an attractive bonus and bringing home gifts is also a major plus.

quote:

Of course they wont change their prices accordingly they are greedy just like everyone else. But I guess as long as they can get the price

This is a sure sign of a Democrat.....JHC Jarrod....get a brain!!!

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
What mind?



Sorry buddy, I just couldn't resist it!

No problem can i speak Susan please

Hi Susan please take steve to dr Botha his Altzheimers are surfacing again

quote:

Originally posted by 375 fanatic:

No problem can i speak Susan please

Hi Susan please take steve to dr Botha his Altzheimers are surfacing again

Who's Susan!

Then there are the Namibian outfitters who quote their prices in Euros.

Southern African outfitters/guides can't vary their prices with the local currency because tourist/hunter money is an important source of "hard" currencies. Their vehicles, much of their equipment, and a great deal of their supplies are imported, therefore those prices go up as their local currency goes down. Among the few things they buy with local currency is labor and some locally-produced supplies and foodstuffs. Their "local currency" overhead likley represents perhaps only a quarter to a third of their overhead (depending on country and location).

A guide may very well price his services in Euros or British Pounds. If that is the case, then right now it might pay to convert some U$D to Euros or Pounds and pay in that currency. Since currency values are "moving around", it is a good time to negotiate with your guide so that both of you get the best "deal" in currencies.

Since most hunts are scheduled months or even a year or more in advance I don't see where is is valid at all in regard to hunt pricing. Nobody knows what the rate will be when you finally step on the ground and will be costing him to host you. As someone else pointed out, Zim would be paying us to hunt if this exchange rate stratigy were used!

Damn, they should be, oupa!

to expect future prices to fluctuate based on current exchange rates is just not realistic unless you are paying the full amount right now, up front (which most hunters can't/won't do). when i exchanged dollars to rand in Atlanta on Sept 30, i got 7:1. when i exchanged rand back to dollars 2 weeks later, i got 10:1. no business in the world can adjust prices that quickly and stay in business( except maybe the oil sheiks). as an aside, my PH made out like a bandit on his tip( given in dollars)- GOOD FOR HIM, HE DESERVED IT!!!

At least the Cuban cigars will be cheaper at the Joberg duty free!

Hey Guys

Dont worry tooooo much about the ZAR (rand)

At least when you USA chaps get your new President you will see what it is like to live with an African at the helm (tongue in cheek) (-:

It is not that easy to keep the rand exchange rate GOOD when the President decides to spread the wealth, we understand it only to well in Africa, it hurts a lot.

Cheers, Peter

I agree with Wendell.

However, you will see better prices on those items you buy in Africa priced in Rand ie; food, ber, souvenirs etc, etc. Also we may see some cheaper charter prices etc in countries pegged to the Rand.

Also, I would advise paying for things with a credit card because most credit card companies charge you the exchange rate of that particular day.

For instance I hired a charter plane in Australia last week which was originally quoted in USD however I payed in AUD and got a better exchange rate from when it was originally quoted to me months ago. Note: This only works if you are able to pay in the local currency.

Todd

quote:

Originally posted by Balla Balla:
Hey Guys

Dont worry tooooo much about the ZAR (rand)

At least when you USA chaps get your new President you will see what it is like to live with an African at the helm (tongue in cheek) (-:

It is not that easy to keep the rand exchange rate GOOD when the President decides to spread the wealth, we understand it only to well in Africa, it hurts a lot.

Cheers, Peter

watch out by next year its R3 to 1 USD

Currency changes should make and could make some changes in the price until it's paid in full.
I well recall that pamplets from the safari companies back in the antiquity of the '60's & '70's (before a lot of you were born!!!!) always carried a statement on "subject to currency changes".
I for one am not seeing any changing in prices based on the improved dollar and I think that is wrong. When the dollar went down they cried and wanted more, now it's the other way. They should now eat a little smaller sandwich.
That's how I see it and ask no one to agree with me. Like most things it's a personal opinion and everybody has one.
I understand people want to know the exact price. In that case then pay it in full with a credit for interest and let it ride.
While I dealt with those currency statements back then, I don't recall ever have to pay more or less. The only time I ever lost money on an agreement was when Tanzania shut down in '73 and to this day they have never coughed up the money that had been paid to the Gov't owned safari company. I quess in that case the exchange rate on the schilling went to zero for us foreigners!

quote:

Originally posted by Balla Balla:
Hey Guys

Dont worry tooooo much about the ZAR (rand)

At least when you USA chaps get your new President you will see what it is like to live with an African at the helm (tongue in cheek) (-:

It is not that easy to keep the rand exchange rate GOOD when the President decides to spread the wealth, we understand it only to well in Africa, it hurts a lot.

Cheers, Peter

I only hope that with a Kenyan as president of the U.S. we'll be able to get prefered travel rates to OTHER African countries!

I recall being told on more than one safari that the overall prices would be subject to change (upward) if the dollar became weaker against the rand. However, I have NEVER been told that the prices would be subject to change (lower) if the dollar became stronger against the rand. It has always been just one way, and one way only, and that one way has been up and has not favored the client. I believe that the prices, including daily rates, trophy fees and all other items, not just the things that you can buy while you're there, should be subject to the current rates, UNLESS you pay in full before the hunt. I have seen the same thing happen with taxidermy. You get a price list, but if the dollar became weaker against the rand before your taxidermy was finished, the price went up. Well, if the dollar becomes stronger against the rand then prices in Africa ought to drop too. If the dollar is 50% stronger then prices ought to adjust accordingly. Now we hear the excuse that PH's and Outfitters can't do so because most of what they buy and rely upon is bought with foreign currency. That's nothing more than double talk. Gas has dropped due to the drop in the price of oil, why shouldn't hunting be the same? I agree with the windfall argument made in the very first post. Once you start making a certain amount of money, it's awfully hard to give it up and take less. That's the undisputed fact.

The price of gas might have dropped for you but it hasn't dropped for us. The rate is falling faster than the price of oil, so the Govt here keeps the fuel price high - the same principle means all imported goods cost us more than ever before. Even domestically produced goods prices are very dependent on fuel prices because distances are so great and facilities so limited here.

With all due respect, I don't know why so many hunters seem to think everyone in the safari industry is out to rook 'em. It's simply not true (at least, it's not true of the good operators) and I'd bet the profit margins in the safari business are some of the lowest in any industry anywhere in the world.

As an example, most PHs are very lucky indeed if they get paid US$200 per day and only that when they're actually working. When they're not working, they don't get paid at all......... how many people can run family finances on that kind of income?

Shakari: With all due respect back, I am not saying the outfitters or PH's are out to "rook" the client. I am saying, be fair and pass the decrease on in daily rates and trophy fees. I have seen daily rates more than double since 2002 and trophy fees increase significantly as well. That was based on the weak dollar was it not? That's what I have been told in almost every instance. We just saw a poll on AR a couple of weeks ago where nearly 1/3 indicated that they had cancelled or changed their upcoming safari plans because of the economy. I think that you are going to see it at the conventions as well. People are strapped for money for their play toys and wants, and are using what money they have for their needs.

UEG,

Thanks for taking my comments in the way they were intended - that is in a friendly manner!

I don't know about anyone else, but would guess most are in the same quandry as we are and will probably end up with similar solutions. - Maybe not exact, but similar.

We're now trying to formulate 2009 prices but because the rates and prices are so up and down, we simply can't come to a price that we can be sure will be fair and equitable to all parties concerned. Although we haven't made final decisions, we'll probably set a ballpark figure and tell clients exact prices will be calculated at the actual time of the safari. Whatever we do, we won't try to take anyone for a cent more than is fair.

As I said though, prices of basic goods and fuel here haven't dropped since oil was US$140 a barrel and my guess is they won't. - Some items esp luxury items are rocketing in price.

Shakari: We've been AR friends too long to ruin a good thing!

Very true!

There is no real point in worrying unduly about the exchange rates share prices or any other fandangled criteria to determine a price, that has been proved by the current economic crises, NO SOB actully knows what is right or wrong or best to fix the problem, if they did we would not be in the present situation we all find ourselves, and dont say change the government and all will be rosy, as the next lot of shiesters could be worse than the present lot.

At the end of the day (like any commercial business) the Outfitter or supplier will set his own price so that he can stay above water and make a profit, or successfull business. How much profit he wants to make is essently his choice, that was what I though happined in a capitalised world.

At the end of the day the buyer will decide if he can afford the price, or more correctly if he is prepared to pay the price on offer. That is what is loosly termed the free market.

If we dont like a capitalist free market type system, then lets go for (vote for) a commie system where prices tend to flatten out more and (the majority) gets watered down to be more similar.

Chers, Peter

Why not get the goverment to give Hunting subsidies like on maize and wheat

I understand the outfitters position as posted.


Let me ask a different question, should the exchange rate influence tips?

I get the point that it is complicated.

However if you book a hotel in a foreign country then you usually pay in the currency of that country, and are open the the ups and downs of F.

Why is hunting different in that it is all charged in $ ?

Isn't this whole issue much ado about nothing.

You can see the Rand/Dollar rate sliding as our stock market goes up, as expected.

My outfitter contacts in RSA speculated weeks ago that the rate would get back to it's "normal" 7.5/8 to 1 range before the hunting season. Looks likely if our market continues up.

I hate it, as those real estate prices were looking pretty tempting! But...as with the Cubbies and the Rays, maybe next year.

Les

If you book a hotel you get the room and maybe breakfast. If you book a hunt, you get a hunting area, animals to hunt, a PH, staff, vehicles, fuel, food and drink etc etc etc. To compare the two products is to compare apples to oranges.

A closer analogy might be buying a cruise or a package holiday where you'll pay for it in a hard currency before you leave your country of residence.

dla69

Tips are optional but I'd suggest a marginally higher tip to local staff might be appropriate because their cost of living will have increased slightly...... probably not as much as a white guy's cost of living because most of their expenditures are usually different.

As for the PH tip, just tip him whatever USD amount you might feel appropriate for the service and product he delivered.

Hope that helps.

The cost of living has gone up by a lot some examples

jan 08 vs september 08

cooking oil 2 lt was 19.99 now 37.99
maize meal 12.5kg last year 27.99 now 49.99 and that is the most basic foods in africa it will take me days to fill in the rest my calculataion was that for the lower end market they only get sixty percent of what they got 6months ago for R500.

a lot is driven by wheat and oil prices

quote:

Originally posted by Balla Balla:

If we dont like a capitalist free market type system, then lets go for (vote for) a commie system where prices tend to flatten out more and (the majority) gets watered down to be more similar.

Chers, Peter

Unfortunately, I'm afraid that's what the thugs, the poorly educated poor, and the "have nots" are fixin' to do here in the U.S. The polls are close, so there's still hope.

"from my cold, dead hands."

I wish that we could have one, just one, major currency that was gold based. Then we would all have a currency that fluctuated very little that we could tag all pricing too and avoid this craziness. Allas it is not to be in this life time.

Let your stockbroker invest the money that you set aside for the hunt, then you could reap enough rewards to stave off any increase of cost the PH/Outfitter would levy! OR you could ask your banker to leverage your home for the extra dough. There are lots of ways to bridge the unknown!!!