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I received an email today from a friend in Zimbabwe who is an Outfitter/PH. He said he had a successful season and got his quota of Buff but did not shoot a single Sable. The area he hunts was once rich with Sable. He said he did not see a single Bull. He said that the plains game situation in Zimbabwe is dire, But his take is somewhat different from what I hear on this forum. He does not blame poachers or over hunting ,he says the lions are all over and their kills are enormous. He said the management of female lions is part of the problem. I have hunted 8 years with this man and trust his judgment to be accurate and honest. I have not been to Zimbabwe since 2004 so have no personal knowledge. Not trying to start any kind of rhubarb just making a report. I know the emphasis on this forum put on Lion protection and just thought that quite maybe there is also another side to the discussion. SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | ||
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What concessions? Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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I can't answer for "zimbabwe" but I can say that the Bubye has LOADS of lions. I hunted there 2 summers ago, calling hyena at night, and whether I used hyena pack howls or bushpig in distress sounds, what came in to the caller were mainly lions: males, females, cubs & mixes thereof. It was fun at first but became a frustration. I finally did find &shoot a lone hyena without calling. I also wanted to shoot a warthog but was told that the lions had them pretty much wiped out at our camp, saw only a few in a week, no shooters. | |||
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I think it depends on where one goes . I have been to areas recently with overpopulation of PG species. In other areas the PG have been hammered HARD. Sometimes it is poaching and other times it may be predators such as wild dogs and lions. The wild dogs and lions can eat a lot of PG in short order. | |||
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The concessions I refer to are in the Matetsi area south of Victoria Falls. SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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I hunted buffalo unsuccessfully in August 2012 in Zimbabwe in the south Omay, with Martin Pieters. Never got a shot at a buffalo and saw very little plains game. If I recall correctly, in seven dark to dark days, my PH and I saw, one bushbuck, a group half dozen Kudu cows, one group of maybe 10 impala and two small groups of warthogs. That was it. NRA Patron member | |||
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In 1989 I was hunting buffalo and tuskless in the Chete concession. I overheard the PH guys mentioning that there were so many lions in the Matetsi area killing game that they might have to cull them !!! I made a mental note of that and in 1994 I moseyed over there and shot a lioness. It was very tough hunting although a father and son shot 5 lions one night. That is another story but I was totally disgusted with them (I had seen the pride earlier that night ... my PH took these guys back to where we had been and they shot them out of the bakkie ... ) I guess that they wanted them culled but I thought that it was a cowardly way to whack and stack them !!! 19 years ago now ... | |||
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I heard the same thing from my PH this year regarding Sable. Too many lions. | |||
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Maybe the shooting of "only" large, old mature, not in the pride Lion is not the answer. If all these observations are true then maybe an additional or different course of action would be best?  Larry Sellers SCI (International) Life Member | |||
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Careful Larry, it would be a mistake to question the "one size fits all" mantra on this website. | |||
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When you look how lions breed, no different then pigs Numbers can jump up quick with plentiful buff and PG So much for " Poor predators" Just like here in Mt, enviros would make you believe the wolves are endangered ( my ass) They eat elk and deer like candy. No different in Africa. And SCI gives lots of money for Lion study. It's all political appeasement. Nothing to do with science. The Lion study money will end up in Swiss bank... " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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No, one size does not fit all on this site. It depends on the opinion of the poster, an opinion to which he is free to state. Zimbabwe had quota for lioness in the past - not sure about that now. Also, good game management does not depend on the age of an animal. Sometimes culling is required. Today the word culling brings out all the ignorant bunny huggers to the front. They actually think they are doing some good, while in fact they are doing the exact opposite. It is OK for them to sit at home and try to dictate what others should and should not do. Of course, the people involved in this are not allowed to have a say. Or, if you are really crooked enough, you set up an organization purported to be for "conservation". The ignorant flock to it, paying you money, and you put that as "running expenses". | |||
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I was in matetsi 4 and Deka in 2012 hunting sable. We also didn't see a single one and no tracks. Other plains game was abundant. Full time professional trapper | |||
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Not sure about that theory but might save it for my pending clients. I do know that territorial Sable are easy to poach and this maybe the endearing factor? ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Have to agree with fairgame.. I was in the Matesi areas 02 & 04.. the difference between the two time frames was incredible.. Between snares & OOA Sable & Eland were hammered incredibly hard.. Poached meat openly for sale in Vic falls open air markets MopaneMike | |||
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Same observations were made in Chifuti South fall of 2012 | |||
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I remember hearing the same things when I hunted Chewore South back in 2007. Both my PH and the company owner were commenting on the buffalo herd and the lack of calf recruitment due to Lion. I think that in Zimbabwe, they are doing a better job controlling the 2 legged predators than in most of the rest of Lion range. This is the problem with the USG's desired intervention here. Come on guys, while I have issues with Lane's behavior, the need for strict management in most of Lion range is obvious. Since we have to deal with the current state of ecological science, the LCTF's policy is probably the only way that Lion hunting will remain. The only reason Zim has Lion is that the people and the government learned that the Lion has value, and if the US kills Lion hunting, I fear those cats will be exterminated as they will no longer have value. Unfortunately, the scientists currently are unwilling to publicly admit that strict enforcement of a lower quota works (the old way) every bit as well as a 6 year age based system; nevertheless in a situation with uncontrolled poaching and limited enforcement of quotas, I think the science concludes that taking old males has no effect on the population...which is not what Zim's herbivorous game needs right now. | |||
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Andrew Dawson and Paul Smith were sitting across the table from me when the LCTF and DSC had its meeting. They did not disagree with the LCTF position. While Bubye does have plenty of lion and should be excluded (as well as other totally fenced conservancies)...the rest of Zim is not lousy with lion...at least according to the scientists who work there. The truly conservation minded PH's who hunt Zim whom I know...do NOT attribute the lack of PG to lion either. In reality...the LCTF recommendations were meant for government owned auctioned blocks rather than intensely managed privately held conservancies. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Sorry Chewore South | |||
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Was hunting lion in Chewore South in 2011. Very limited plainsgame and very few buffalo calves from the previous year. Saw wilddogs on five different occasions and seven different male lions. Had lions on the buffalo herds every day, day after day. Don't know if culling of the lion population is the answer but do know that Paul and Andrew would gladly assist if so requested. | |||
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Like I said...I spoke with Andrew, Paul, and Dave at DSC at in 2013. While they did say they thought Lion populations in Chewore were good...they were in full support of the LCTF definition of a huntable lion...which was later adopted by DSC. There are other factors that play a roles in lions killing buff calves which I would rather not go into as it will open a whole new can of worms. TZ however, currently has 60-70% of the world's wild lions...more than the rest of the countries put together. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Thought the thread was about Zimbabwe's diminishing Sable population? ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Which is probably NOT due to lion. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Matetsi unit 4 used to have a thriving Sable population and a healthy Lion population, and a lot of buffalo Bad management, no proper anti poaching and overzealous shooting of the "quota" are my guess as to what has lead to its demise. When the owner has no real interest in wildlife and sees an area as a foreign exchange generating cash cow that is what tends to happen Very sad | |||
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Never missing a chance to poke someone in the eye.  Brett PS. How about putting your money where your mouth is..... http://forums.accuratereloadin...1411043/m/6921008291 DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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