Hi,
I am not sure if this is the right place to post this but I need some help...
A friend of mine has recently bought a ranch in SA. Now he is having some problems with the finer details and has asked me for help. My usual contact for assistance is out of touch at the moment - hunting...and the questions are quite urgent.
1)What is the average salary for a good ranch manager/PH in SA. It is 3900 acres and has only plainsgame - all fenced, good roads and a couple of small hunting camps as well as the main/managers house.
2) Is it normal for a manager/PH to take a bonus/daily rate for days hunted on the farm over and above his normal wage? Assuming that the manager is being paid a reasonable wage and has lodging etc included as part of his package? The guy in question is asking for R500 per day for days when he is hunting with clients/taking care of visitors on top of his monthly salary.
3) My friend would like to find out about owning a weapon in SA. He is a European National and as such each time he goes over - 4/5 times per year he has to go through the whole firearm import process - is there any way that as a foreign ranchowner he can get a special permit to keep a weapon at the farm? Where can I follow up on this or who should I contact to get the best advice?

Finally - my friend hunted with a PH in SA some years back...plus minus five years or so with a PH that came from Patterson in the E. Cape - they had a great hunt and now my friend would like to try and contact him again...but has lost his business card - he is in his mid 30's now and is blind in one eye....I know its a long shot, but I figured this place is the one place I might get lucky...

Many thanks to anybody that can help with any of the above and my apologies if I have posted this in the wrong spot.

Tigerfish

Nobody??? I sure would appreciate any help here...

A ranch manager and a PH are not often the same person. At least I do not know of that situation, but it could be the case I suppose.

A Ranch manager is simply a caretaker making sure the mechanical function of the ranch stays intact while the owner is off site.

A PH is ....Well a PH that is going to be a hunter first and foremost. I would not consider paying a PH a full salary for hunting while working as the caretaker. However he should have his income increased while he is hunting.

The bigger problem you would have is keeping a PH as a caretaker during Late April through August when he makes all his money for the year. How can he afford to work as a caretaker of the property when he could be making many times that amount if he were out hunting? Lets face it A guy becomes a PH becasue his passion is hunting not for the money or family life he gets.

You are looking at two different positions here in my opinion. Hire a caretaker and then arrange a few PHs to meet with and talk to so you can sort out which ones to use for the short time they are needed.

1)Is the manager going to bee one of the P.H.s?
2)Bonus would be from sale of game to local butcher haus.
3)Hire a manager with guns he can use less problems.
As far as locating the P.H.try Phasa.

http://www.phasa.co.za/

JJ & Baboon,
Thanks for your input - I appreciate that. You make some pretty interesting points...however - is it really so unusual that you would have a ranch manager that also takes responsibility for guiding clients when they are out?? We are not talking 150-200 days per year here...more likely to be 30-60 days per year?

Can anybody give me an idea of what sort of salary range he should be looking at for a ranch manager? Also - do you think it reasonable to pay R500 per day extra for days that he is guiding clients?

Thanks again.
Andy

quote:

Originally posted by Tigerfish:
JJ & Baboon,
Thanks for your input - I appreciate that. You make some pretty interesting points...however - is it really so unusual that you would have a ranch manager that also takes responsibility for guiding clients when they are out?? We are not talking 150-200 days per year here...more likely to be 30-60 days per year?

Can anybody give me an idea of what sort of salary range he should be looking at for a ranch manager? Also - do you think it reasonable to pay R500 per day extra for days that he is guiding clients?

Thanks again.
Andy

R.S.A.gameranch hunting season is April-Sept;thats 6 months.Having the manager as a P.H. is not unheard of.Its all in what they are payed,and what the rest of his help are like.The manager pay has so many factors you are not mentioning.Who is going to do the travel to find clients?Will the manager be buying and selling game for the ranch?Will he be selling bitong hunts?Whats his experiance,education?What did the ranch earn last year? Is it being hunted right now?Is there any game on the ranch or has it been sold off?What shape is the ranch in?The R500 per day is about what a contract P.H. makes a day.

quote:

We are not talking 150-200 days per year here...more likely to be 30-60 days per year?

This is the situation that makes this more complicated to have a caretaker who is a PH. Most PH's worth having will make a hella lot more money as a PH and you only want to give him 30-60 days of higher pay but keep him on site for the whole year.

It will be hard for you to do that with an experienced PH. Now there are plenty countless PH's that have little expereince with clients and working the business but have decent game skills and have passed the course. one like that may be affordable and get him the experience he needs(at your expense)

I have these kinds of guys work for me all the time as a "spare" or as a Helper in camp when we need some special attention. They get experience and I get some help. I would not use one of these PHs as my sole client interface though. There is a whole lot more then just finding and judging game in the PH job!

I still say you are looking at two different jobs here. There is a possibility you can find a Licensed PH with good caretaker skills that wants to settle into a single location and kick back taking a few hunters a year. Including a house for him to live in on site would add to the attractive salary options. But within your time frame It's not going to be an easy fit.

I know a few that might have an interest. Where is the location of the property?

A lot of PH's have jobs looking after properties out of the hunting season and a lot have other jobs.

I don't see the problem raised above with the same person possibly doing both ??? Seems common to me.

I visited an acquaintances property last time and in the off-season, the "manager" who was a PH and the "camp manager" (who was also the cook), spent the off season weaving bamboo fence barriers, tiling the bathrooms, fixing the roofs, keeping baboons out of the quarters etc etc.

Got to earn a buck somehow!

Two PH's I know in SA, do ranch type maint and etc during the off season on the ranch they hunt. They mainly supervise fench repair, repairs to the camp, feeding in dry yrs etc and one takes care of about 40 horses on the ranch also. Not different than many of the duties done here in the US on ranches. I'm sure some do not do that type work, but some do.

I'd say JJ has given you some very good advice - if you have one person to manage the place and do th PH ing it makes it just a little too cozy - esp with an absentee owner. Before you know it he'll be inviting his friends and family etc on weekend hunts....... or worse.

I'd recommend you employ a retired couple with bush experience to manage the property and then use contract PHs to do the hunting.

If you need to contact reliable people to find suitable staff let me know and I'll be happy to put you onto the right people.

Thanks guys,
NitroX & Gringo - you guys seem to see where I am coming from.
JJ I will send you a PM.
Baboon.

quote:

Its all in what they are payed,and what the rest of his help are like.

Hence my question on a ballpark figure for salary. I realise that some will get more and some less depending on their experience and so forth, but what I would like to know is roughly how much is a reasonable/average wage for somebody doing this type of work. Once I have an idea of what is reasonable I can sit down with Sven and talk about what package he has in place just now.

quote:

The manager pay has so many factors you are not mentioning.Who is going to do the travel to find clients?

Sven hunts a lot himself here in Sweden - and some of the hunters that will be hunting his ranch are friends that will be hunting as his guest rather than as paying clients. He does have a good netork of people here though and would like to see some revenue being generated by the hunting so in the long term he is keen to see the hunting side develop, but is really focussed on maintaining a low number of hunters per year. So he will be sourcing the clients himself - the manager/PH just has to take care of them.

QUOTE] Will the manager be buying and selling game for the ranch?Will he be selling bitong hunts?Whats his experiance,education?What did the ranch earn last year? Is it being hunted right now?Is there any game on the ranch or has it been sold off?What shape is the ranch in?The R500 per day is about what a contract P.H. makes a day.
[ [/QUOTE]
Sven will be in Sweden for six-nine months of the year, so yes, purchasing game might be one of his tasks. The ranch is in good shape and is well stocked with plainsgame - no big stuff - biltong hunts might be an option, subject to animal numbers and different factors that affect herd dynamics through the seasons. Yes it is being hunted right now, but small quotas and limited clients. Experience/education?? Honesty, Integrity and Maturity...looks so simple when you write it down doesnt it?? But thats about it. As long as the individual can handle a small labour force(8-20 staff), take care of the day to day issues, fences, roads and other camp/ranch chores those are the most important issues. This is probably not a position that will fit well on the shoulders of a through and through Hunt till you drop kind of guy, but for somebody who has the license, doesnt have a hard time communicating with new people from time to time...and is looking for a reasonably decent place to enjoy a cold beer at the end of the day...I reckon it could be magic...honestly I was considering offering myself up for the job at one point, but I just have too many different balls in the air right now already.

Thanks again to those of you that have contributed so far. Please feel free to add anything after you have read this.

Andy

quote:

Originally posted by Tigerfish:

Hi, I am not sure if this is the right place to post this but I need some help.. A friend of mine has recently bought a ranch in SA. Now he is having some problems with the finer details and has asked me for help. My usual contact for assistance is out of touch at the moment - hunting...and the questions are quite urgent.

1)What is the average salary for a good ranch manager/PH in SA. It is 3900 acres and has only plainsgame - all fenced, good roads and a couple of small hunting camps as well as the main/managers house.

2) Is it normal for a manager/PH to take a bonus/daily rate for days hunted on the farm over and above his normal wage? Assuming that the manager is being paid a reasonable wage and has lodging etc included as part of his package? The guy in question is asking for R500 per day for days when he is hunting with clients/taking care of visitors on top of his monthly salary.

3) My friend would like to find out about owning a weapon in SA. He is a European National and as such each time he goes over - 4/5 times per year he has to go through the whole firearm import process - is there any way that as a foreign ranchowner he can get a special permit to keep a weapon at the farm? Where can I follow up on this or who should I contact to get the best advice?

Finally - my friend hunted with a PH in SA some years back...plus minus five years or so with a PH that came from Patterson in the E. Cape - they had a great hunt and now my friend would like to try and contact him again...but has lost his business card - he is in his mid 30's now and is blind in one eye....I know its a long shot, but I figured this place is the one place I might get lucky...

Many thanks to anybody that can help with any of the above and my apologies if I have posted this in the wrong spot.

Tigerfish

Hello Tigerfish

1) Proberbly +-5000 rand / per month - very difficult to be specific as there might be other perks to the job !!

2) I personally would think that if he was contracted BOTH as manager and PH guide then he would have to rely upon the tips for extra income /// depends upon his contract really

3) The regulations are getting tighter by the day and my advice is STICK by the local law 100% // If a local guy on the ranch were to legally owns the rifle in his own name, then there is nothing (as I see it) preventing the foreign national being your friend from using that rifle on the ranch for the 4-5 times he might visit during the season / It can be held in safe case and used as required, that might be the easiest solution !

Regards, Peter

While I certainly claim no expertise in this area, I hunted on a ranch in RSA where the manager was a PH and did take clients out. I was hunting with a separate PH and my impression of the manager/Ph was very lukewarm.

On another ranch, the well qualified couple who managed it was leaving because of "personality" conflicts with the new owner. It's been a while but I seem to recall their combined salary was about $800US (then about 7000 rand) a month. This included lodging, of course. Not sure about food.

Hey everybody that threw in their few cents!
Big thank yous to all of you! I dont post much, but enjoy reading most of what appears on the forum and you guys really came through for me on these issues! Fully appreciate all your advice and recommendations.

Stay well,
Andy