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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Thoughts on cape guns!Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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JudgeG’s post on his hunt on the Cape with his cape gun got me to thinking, better said, wondering! I have often wondered why the cape guns are not used more in places like RSA by the guides and ranch owners as well as hunters. Maybe one reason is probably because most do not own a cape gun, and have no experience with one! This type of firearm was designed for this area, and makes sense, especially for the PHs there. Judge G had the right idea for a fun hunt in RSA. Congratulations Judge! I have a couple of cape guns and find them perfect for hunting deer and elk in the mountain west where several bird seasons, are open at the same time a deer and elk seasons. Before I got a cape gun, it seemed every time I would leave the jeep to check out a canyon for deer or elk with a rifle, I would jump a covey of blue quail, or a turkey. And every time I left the jeep with a shotgun to get into a covey of quail I would jump a real moss-horn mule deer or bull elk. A new Merkel cape gun with a 20ga or 12 ga barrel, and a 30 Blaser, or 9.3X74R rifle barrel would be a very handy rifle for a plains game hunt any place in Africa. With a light Illuminated scope it would be a perfect firearm for hunting leopard and/or lion on bait any place in Africa as well. One of my cape guns is a side-lock exposed hammer H. Berella gun chambered for 16 ga shot on the left, and a rifle barrel chambered for 8X57JR. This gun was originally chambered for the short 16 ga and was choked for the very tight German full choke. I had it re-chambered for the 2 ¾ 16 gauge, and the choke opened up to modified. It is now one of the best hunting guns I own, and once I get JJ to mount a quick-detach scope it will be even better, and would be my choice for a leopard rifle, in Africa with the 8X57JR (.318 dia) 196 gr soft nose @ 2450 FPS it would be lights out for mister spots. For general hunting In Africa an even better firearm would be a double rifle drilling with two side by side rifle barrels chambered for 375H&H flanged magnum, with the shot barrel below and centered between the rifle barrels chambered for the 3 inch 12 gauge. The triggers set so the front trigger fires the right rifle barrel, and the back trigger fires the left rifle barrel and then fires the shot barrel on the second pull. A switch could be installed so the back trigger would only fire the shot barrel every pull for bird hunting, With a quick detach Trijicon scope it would be even better. Unfortunately I don’t have the time left or the disposable funds to make the combination of the firearm and African hunting a reality, one can still dream! ......................................................................  good hunting!....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | ||
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Agree 100%. Champlin Arms has a beautiful pre-WW I Jeffery 12x303 that would be perfect. Same old story though, too many guns, not enough dollars. Paul Smith SCI Life Member NRA Life Member DSC Member Life Member of the "I Can't Wait to Get Back to Africa" Club DRSS I had the privilege to fire E. Hemingway's WR .577NE, E. Keith's WR .470NE, & F. Jamieson's WJJ .500 Jeffery I strongly recommend avoidance of "The Zambezi Safari & Travel Co., Ltd." and "Pisces Sportfishing-Cabo San Lucas" "A failed policy of national defense is its own punishment" Otto von Bismarck | |||
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mac - i think the 2 problems with people using cape guns is #1 their availability, and #2 the cost. while i have owned a couple they never did get to much use. my wish was always for a really nice dumelbusch drilling | |||
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I own a cape gun and a drilling. My problem with using them for hunting is- - for the rifle I really need a scope (with these tired old eyes), but that makes the gun's use as a shotgun unwieldy, at best. I know I can use a quick detach scope; but isn't the whole idea to be able to use it immediately for both large & small game? So, if I take off the scope to shoot francolin, and a record book bushbuck suddenly appears...then what? Same deal in Western US with deer/grouse. | |||
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I have a great old Sauer Cape gun chambered in 12ga/9X57R which makes for a very usable rig. Best of all it is an actual gun from the cape. It still has its original markings from Mullers of Cape Town SA. It will certainly go with me on my next trip over, but in the mean time it is a serious squirrel and grouse getter and it has a date sometime this winter for the Mt lion whose tag I just got drawn for!      And Mac is correct, a double 375 over a 12ga would be just about perfect. I might even trade away my Sabatti for something like that!  "The difference between adventure and disaster is preparation." "The problem with quoting info from the internet is that you can never be sure it is accurate" Abraham Lincoln | |||
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....................................................................AHH you wouldn't do a dumb thing like that! .............  By the way that is a very nice old cap gun, and being from the Cape is icing on the cake! ..............................................................Congratulations!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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I'm not one to suggest spoilng the lines on a fine old drilling or cape gun, but for those of us with tired eyes, a holosight like Trijicon's RMR, or something similar works well for both rifle and shotgun. The one I have on my Sabatti .470 works very well. | |||
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The wife and I have done quite a bit of hunting with drillings and combo guns. A Cape gun is usually considered to be a side by side, while a combo gun is usually considered to be an over/under, but both have a rifle barrel and a shotgun barrel. I also have a 9,3x74R double rifle drilling. We have hunted wiht them in Texas, Montana, Idaho, and Zimbabwe. The wife killed a very nice kudu one day when we were hunting driven frankolin and guiena fowl. A few days later while hunting Guiena fowl again she killed a monster warthog. All of our guns are fitted with scopes in QD mounts, some also have red dots fitted to them as well. We have found them to be a most useful hunting gun. Anytime furred and feathered game are in season I take one of them with me. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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I've become a big fan of the combination guns. I actually like them more than my drillings. I've used an old Superposed as my primary shotgun since I was in my teens, so I favor the O/U versions over the cape guns. One of my combination guns, an 8x57/16 spent most of it's life in Africa. It was purchased in Germany and emigrated to Africa. It was the original owners one gun on his farm. I purchased it from the old Afrikaner's nephew. Somewhere I have the list of the game that the old rifle took. Included on this list with a myriad of antelope is forty leopards. That is versatility. Her beauty shows in her maturity. The finish is worn, the stock has been refinished, more than once. There are three repairs to the wrist. It has a little thing a ma jig that allows use of rimless 8x57 if need be. She's got claw mounts with an Americanized set of claws that replaced the old originals years ago. I hunt regularly with it each fall and winter. I've taken a number of whitetails (using the rifle as well as slugs and buckshot) and a bunch of small game with it. If I get back to Africa, she will go with me as my primary plains game gun. I don't think I've ever taken her into the field that I haven't marveled at the history that I hold in my hands. Bfly Work hard and be nice, you never have enough time or friends. | |||
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I like over/under better Savage. 30/30 and 20 gauge Great pig gun with occasional fox " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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The big problem many farmers in out-of-the-way places here in Africa face is that they are not reloaders and ammo for calibres like the 9x57R, 9,3x72R and other equally rare birds are next to impossible to find most anywhere. Even for those of us living in the bigger cities, finding ammo or components for strange/rare calibres can sometimes be tough. In addition, many, if not most, of the Cape guns for sale over here has definitely seen better times. Many, if not most, are shot seriously off the face and condition is in many instances very much so-so. A rare exception was a friend's William Evans sidelock .303/12-gauge Cape gun. It was near-mint and he sold it for good money to an English collector some years ago. I've played around a fair bit with an Isaac Hollis .303/20-gauge Cape gun as well as a pre-WW II Krieghoff combination gun with two 12-bore barrels on top of a 7x57R barrel. Both were unscoped. I have to admit that both guns left me cold. They made for piss poor shotguns (one had only one barrel - obviously - and the other was way too heavy) and an open-sighted .303, or 7x57R for that matter, allows one only so much really good shot opportunities, especially when hunting in open country. I much prefer my old English double sidelock for my shotgunning needs and whenever I need to use a rifle, I prefer to have a "proper" one at hand. My hunting is of such a nature that I'm never on the lookout for both furred and feathered game in any event, so I'd much rather use another precious license for another decent shotgun or rifle, not a combination of both. Others are welcome to their opinion and if it leaves someone full of euphoria to hunt with such a weapon, well, good for him I say! This world would be a very dreary place indeed if all of us thought alike. | |||
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Boarkiller, I have and have had several of the stevens, which was the first of these, before Savage bought them out, and still own several of the O/U guns of both names. The first problem with the Savage/Stevens O/U combo guns is the put the rifle barrel on the top, which limits what cartridges it can be chambered for in the rifle. The highest pressure cartridge needs to be on the bottom barrel where it can handle the reverse thrust of the rifle chambering best. The other problem is they are as heavy as a railroad tie. Having said that, like you, I still like them! And the 30-30/20 ga can be turned into a very handy short barreled double rifle for a dog bear and lion hunter. I took one of these and cut the 20ga barrel off just in front of the shot shell chamber, and bored it out to a true cylinder. I then threaded the front 1 inch to accept a .30 cal barrel, and chambered it for 30-30 as well, made a new extractor shoe for the 30-30 Win and regulated the barrels for Winchester 170 gr factory ammo. I cut the original 30-30 barrel back to 18 inches, and new barrel as well. This made a perfect little double rifle to carry while following bear and lion dogs in the Mountain West of the USA and black bear over bait in Canada. With quality iron sights that little rifle was a pig killing machine as well as being one of the best whitetail deer rifles you could ask for in the woods! The 30-30/20ga savage combos are getting hard to find today, and made into a double rifle like the one I described above make very good short rifles for the dog men, and stand/woods deer hunters. Boar killer, I collect any firearms that has more than one barrel, be it shotgun, O/U or S/S, pistols, rifles both O/U or S/S, or combo both O/U or S/S or drilling. I prefer the S/S in any of them but collect all configurations! ....................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Jvw375, you are quite correct on the availability of odd ammo, and sometimes popular ammo, being hard to come by in RSA, but easier there than most of Africa. It is true as well, that many of the rounds historically in cape guns and drillings are not well suited for any serious hunting of anything larger than a dik dik! The 9.3X72 comes to mind. There are, however, some brand new cape guns being made today that are well suited to just about anything RSA and most other hunting areas have to offer. The 9.3X74R is not given it’s due by many who have never used it. A new Merkel cape gun with a 20ga 3 inch and 9.3X74R with a good 1-4 Trijicon in quick detach mounts would take about anything hunted in RSA quite handily. People have the wrong idea about a scope on a double rifle or cape gun. Where the scope is the primary sight on a bolt rifle, and is mounted in quality quick detach mounts, and the rifle fitted with quality iron sights to be used where appropriate the scope is removed. With a double rifle, cape gun or any combo gun, the iron sights are the primary, and the scope is attached only when needed for a special purpose, like threading a bullet through a hole in the cover to avoid little sticks that can’t be seen with the naked eye, and may deflect the bullet causing a dangerous follow-up or lost trophy. We are lucky in the USA, at least for now, that our constitution say we can own as many firearms as we can afford. So we do not have to save a permit for something can’t do without, because we don’t have permits for firearms in this country, except for full auto firearms. Top that off with the fact that we can re-load any number of cartridges we want. Of course our KING is trying hard to change that. In the final analysis, the USA client hunter coming to Africa can use what ever is legal in the country he hunts in. It is fun to hunt with guns that were originally designed for the area where you intend hunting. That takes nothing away from those who want to hunt with the latest thing of the makers bench however! The hunt is supposed to be fun! ..................................................................... ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Mac: After taking my J. P. Sauer 7x57r/16 gauge to Africa, I will never go again with out it. Next year will be primarily for elephants with my forthcoming .450 Searcy long bar round action, but the little Cape gun is too darn useful and fun to shoot not to have, too. JudgeG ... just counting time 'til I am again finding balm in Gilead chilled out somewhere in the Selous. | |||
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" Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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Congratulations Judge, the cape gun will be a nice fill-in along with your new Searcy! .................................................................... ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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I love my Ferlach (Hambrusch) cape gun, more than any other gun I have. It's almost 100-years old but with new stock and new barrels.  http://www.kapstadt.de/schindlers-africa | |||
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The cape gun looks to be very useful but for aesthetics I prefer the symmetry of the drilling barrel arrangement. Also two shots at a covey of birds is nice to have available. ALLEN W. JOHNSON - DRSS Into my heart on air that kills From yon far country blows: What are those blue remembered hills, What spires, what farms are those? That is the land of lost content, I see it shining plain, The happy highways where I went And cannot come again. A. E. Housman | |||
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