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 Here is a picture of a Cape Buffalo cow in Karamoja that Nigel has been keeping track of. He wanted be to share it to show the trophy potential for the area. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | ||
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wow! | |||
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Must be well over 50 "! | |||
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goodgooglymoogly....... Birmingham, Al | |||
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I was just SMS'ing with Nigel and I asked him: "How wide do you think that cow is...53"???" His reply: "I really don't know. I think larger than 53" but have never had to judge a buff that large before. She maybe close to 60"." How wide does everyone think they she is? We are going to dart her I think and maybe a couple of others and collar her. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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There was a buff like that on display at SCI a few years ago, and, if I remember correctly, the reason for the extraordinary horn development was because of some genetic abnormality related to hermaphroditism (or something along those lines). | |||
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62" is my guess. Let us know when you dart and collar her. | |||
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What for......why not just leave her be and get on with her life? With horns like that it is quite likely that she's a freak as was her 'sister' who holds/held the world record (63?). There is a very high probability that she would be unable to reproduce - Ledvm would be better qualified to expand on this assumption. | |||
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UEG: You may be right. I did some measurement. While not scientific, I would have to conclude around 60. From the center of her head to her left ear is about 15/16th of an inch. Her entire left side is right at 2 inches. If one assumes that a cows ears are 30 inches wide and extrapolate the numbers it is 64 inches. Having shot a 46 1/2 inch bull, I have to tell you that this looks a whole lot wider. Well more than a foot wider. | |||
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In Nigel's words: "to keep another PH from smoking her up." When we collar her...I should be able to tell if she is an intersex animal. And too...there might another one or 2 we are not sure. If collared...we would be able to tell. We have hope of turning the Karamoja into a conservancy similar to Save. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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It is generally accepted in the states that you will get aabout a 10% mortality rate when darting animals. Factor that in when you consider to dart or not. 465H&H | |||
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Lane Would you please quit bringing these things up till AFTER I can get to hunt the Karamojo--  super old cow- please let me know if you get DNA on her what the deal is. SSR | |||
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58 to 60. Will J. Parks, III | |||
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Nigel shouldn't worry about her being "smoked" by another PH - from a trophy hunting perspective she's already protected by law unless a poacher fancies her for the smoking rack and the collar is going to be someone's money wasted. Collaring in a regulated hunting zone IMO should not be practiced unless the species in question is faced with extinction - like in Wild Dog?  | |||
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What a load of horse shit. I really do wish people would stop quoting their opinions like they were facts. | |||
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Might be for a sick or badly injured animal but unlikely for a healthy one. | |||
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My guess is 57". It looks smaller than a few other Tz animals with this thin long horn configuration that were posted some months ago. A world record (bull) was shot in Tz & that beat the old female record of JA Hunter's. These slim & long horns with narrow boss are unique and worthy of taking. They look so much like the Asiatic Water buffalo! But IMHO the really thick, heavy big boss hooks are heart stopping. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Might be worthy of taking but not in TZ or Uganda. | |||
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As a large animal veterinarian and a board certified large animal surgeon...I completely agree with you...AHQ. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Fujo, Right now Nigel pretty much rules the Karamoja. But that is unlikely forever. As stated previously...work has begun to make it a conservancy...probably a looong ways away though. There are many large horned specimens in the area...some of which are bulls. This cow just happened to be the largest photographed to date. The Kidepo Valley herd (northern tip of Karamoja) has been called the largest single herd of cape buff in all of Africa. We are interested in preserving some specific genetic potential. BTW...not sure that cow buff could not be hunted legally in Uganda. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Thanks Lane, I hoped you might chime in. I have a few friends in Game Capture and anything even coming close to ,5% mortality is simply not acceptable. I imagine under controlled surgical conditions the numbers are even more impressive. During the late 90's I took part in the buffalo capture and TB testing in Hluhluwe Imfolozi park. The process involved rounding up 500+ buffalo with a helicopter, pushing them into a boma and then tranquilising them with pole syringes, drawing 3 tubes of blood per animal and then waking them up about 10 minutes later. Groups of 20 at a time. in three days of capture we never saw a single animal death. Their professionalism combined with years of experience and dedication to the cause ensured that the animals health was never in doubt. I would hazzard a guess that the buff with the big spread would have less than 1 in 10000 chance of dying whilst the collar was being fitted. | |||
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AHQ,  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Lane, Unless the Law was recently modified, all female species and their young were protected. If I am not mistaken, Uganda continued applying the Colonial Game Laws as was/is the case with Tanzania and Kenya (up until the ban)where it is now a free for all and one doesn't have to worry so much about collars and survival rate after darting  Nigel will know what the current hunting laws allow/disallow. | |||
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Straight line outside width from widest point of horn curls, I would say about 49-50. If you drape the measuring tape over the bosses, you're gonna squeeze a few more inches out of it. Definitely, it's not 60". | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by 465H&H: It is generally accepted in the states that you will get aabout a 10% mortality rate when darting animals. Factor that in when you consider to dart or not. 465H&H I should have been more clear. The 10% is an overall number for game capture in the US and ranges for all big game species. It does vary depending on which drug is used and what species is darted. It also depends on the experience of the darter in using drugs. Animals sedated in veterinary or zoo setting have much better survival rates and you can't compare the two. Also you can't compare rates for animals constrained in a boma and sedated with a jab stick and using a dart gun on a fee ranging animal. That is one reason why wildlife biologists in the US try to avoid darting if at all possible. Those of you that have criticized my post please state the number of free ranging big game animals that you have personally darted. My number is over 150. Sorry, but I am a professional biologist and I do know of what I speak. 465H&H | |||
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Soooooo will SCI recognise that as a "Green Hunt" and let you put it in the book??  Dave Davenport Outfitters license HC22/2012EC Pro Hunters license PH74/2012EC www.leopardsvalley.co.za dave@leopardsvalley.co.za +27 42 24 61388 HUNT AFRICA WHILE YOU STILL CAN Follow us on FACEBOOK https://www.facebook.com/#!/leopardsvalley.safaris | |||
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Exactly...and he says cows (with out calves) can possibly get permited by request in Uganda. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Counting Bison...I can beat you. And I disagree with your statement on the buff in the boma...they are more stressed and more likely to die of stress related pharmacological reactions. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Lane, I bow to your knowledge when it comes to buff in a boma as I have no experience at that. I guess on the rest we will have to agree to disagree.  465H&H | |||
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Thanks for your input...I always listen to what you have to say. Just so happens that large animal phamacology and anesthesia is something I have based my life works on. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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I will add...that many of the biologists that I have worked with were NOT properly trained in large animal anesthesia/sedation. Hence...they should be cautious. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Thanks Lane, I knew you would understand, whether we agreed or not. While I haven't devoted my whole life to large animal anesthesiology I have spent many a day doing it. Species that I have darted from small to large include skunks, fox, Mtn lions, pronghorns, both whitetail and mule deer, bighorn sheep, black bear, elk and moose. From on foot, by snow machine and helicopter. 465H&H | |||
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I don't think 10% is too far off if you are talking about ALL folks, across the board, in the US using Rompum on whitetails. May be a little high , on average, but I have seen way worse %s on a given day by non pros.... I've darted maybe 100 animals, mostly whitetails. I've killed two, both while using Rompum. I now use Domitor, have for several years without any ill effects. I have darted one buck three times in four days without any probs with Domitor. troy Birmingham, Al | |||
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Rompun is xylazine and Dormitor is dormosedan...they are both are alpha-2 agonsits and dormosedan is considered to be more dangerous. And Dtala you are at 2%...long way from 10%. I am less than 1%...knock-on-wood. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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The below photos are of an Asian Water Buffalo Cow taken in Arnhem Land, Northern Territory with Matthew Kellman in 1996. Outside spread tip to tip was exactly 59 and 5/8 inches. As both horns 'drop' we could stretch the tape perfectly straight as it passed beneath the lower jaw. No matter how hard we tried, we couldn't get it to measure 60, and came up 59 and 5/8 inches every time. It is interesting that these non-typically wide buffalo - be they African or Asian, are usually cows.   "Africaphile of note" Life Member SCI Life Member NRA | |||
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good to see she's still the Steve and I spotted her once when i was there. but the pictures we got where bad blurry | |||
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