I was looking at Zeke's offer of African hunt packages, in the classified section and a question came to mind:
On a package hunt, lets say 10 days, do the hunters get sent home early if they have no additional game to bag or don't wish to do any more hunting?
I know it isn't common here (but does happen) in the USA), but don't know about Africa and other places.
This is a question I always ask my outfitter.
Bob Nisbet

Never happened to me and never even a hint of doing that. My PHs have taken us on tours, photo ops, fishing, bird hunting and at my request, just lounging around.

I wouldn't expect to leave or to be asked to leave before I was scheduled to do so. If I decide to go home early, that would be solely my choice.

I know of two instances; a client was sent home after threatening a PH who would not let him the freedom to shoot every thing he laid eyes on, the other client was lucky to be sent home, messing with wives not being acceptable behaviour.

If someone tags out early, they usually have the option to leave early (provided transport can be arranged), but they won't likely get any of the daily rate back, because that's time that can't really be resold. Where I work, most people just use any extra days to relax, fish, take pictures, and maybe shoot a few birds. I've never heard of anyone in Zambia being forced to go home early, unless they were an out-of-control jerk.

It's all in the contract. Read it carefully and make sure you are getting what you want.

On all 3 of my safaris, the hunted ended early, but the fun continued.
1st time we went to the Skeleton Coast.
2nd time just went game watching.(took my rifle just in case)
3rd time we just spent time looking for something extremely special to take, didn't find it, but had fun anyway. It kept the hunt going.
If they are charging you day rates, why would they want to send you home?

I've read several accounts (magazines and on the 'net) written by people who were quite pleased by the fact that they achieved their goal early in the hunt and were thus able to vacate the camp early. I always wondered why a person who felt that way would go to Africa, or anywhere else, in the first place.

I'm pretty sure that there are also Muskox hunts where early success is common and where the hunt is deemed to be over when the game is taken. You are then expected to pack up and vamoose, tout-de-suite! Sounds very unappealing to me. Spending time in such an exotic locale is a big part of a hunt like that, even if some of that time is not necessarily in the lap of luxury or surrounded by spectacular scenery.

Generally it's an option, exercisable by the hunter. But exercising it can result in extra costs - for example, if a charter is needed. Best to work that kind of thing out beforehand.

I fully completed my bag on one hunt but sure didn't leave early. We spent a few days looking for things that weren't realistic. We were looking for a Steenbok with 7 inch horns or a warthog with 14 inch tusks. While both exist, they aren't common. We never found them but had a lot of fun trying. And that's the sole reason I go to Africa, for the fun.

Mac

I had it happen in Mexico. I was shipped out to the City of Magdalena a day early from the hunting ranch 30 miles out, even though I still had another day to go in the hunting area, because I had been successful. I would have liked to have stayed on through the last day and gone out with the other hunters to assist in looking for their mule deer bucks, spent some time with them and enjoyed some great homemade Mexican food. I had paid for that day in camp in any event. By the way, I wasn't given an option to stay.

Bob,

I think as a general rule if your talking about Africa when you book 7, 10, 14, 21 days the safari operator should be more than happy to have you stay the whole time that your booked for. It will work to his advantage because you may end up shooting more. This is particularly true with a package hunt.

I personally do not represent anyone in Africa that will send you packing once the trophies are in the salt. There is always something interesting to do. An awful lot folks though as has been mentioned are only too eager to get out as soon as possible. In my mind if you rush through a safari you have cheated yourself unless work demands you return early. Some of my fondest safari memories are from just relaxing and absorbing some of Africa.

Mark

When I did my Musk-Ox/Caribou hunt in Nunavut in 2000, they tried to get us out early because everyone had killed what they were after. The weather is the only thing that kept that from happening.

Never noticed it in the African hunts I have looked at but on some Canadian hunts it clearly states/stated that hunt is/was over when target species are killed.

Mostly, since you have a couple thou in airline tickets to "make full use of", nobody goes home early. Sent home? Doubtful, Bob. Don't shop, hunt?

When we hunted in Zimbabwe, we always got 22 days hunting on a 21 day stay. Mainly it wasdue to flights, but Walter said he just wanted to make sure Roy has a bigger smile on his face as we left.

The joke was Roy met us at the airport with a big smile as we arrived.

But somehow seems to have a much bigger smile as he waved us goodby!

I wonder why. . . .

Most packages or day rate Safaris have an aloted time paid for, so if you finnish early you still have time paid for and a P.H paid for.
So you can hunt some more tour some more. or just stay and relax. shoot clays,guineas go fishing.ENJOY

Photography and tiger fishing comes to mind.

Rich

Arranged a hunt with top tier Ph in Zambia, in the Luanga Valey. He sold me the hunts and I asked for a couple more days added on for good measure. He said it was unnecessary as all of the game on license would only take 7 days at best.We wanted two crocodiles. He said no problem and since I would be taking my wife, she could shoot the crocodile and any other animal on my license. We did the hunt and in fact were finished with a 1;1 hunt for two hunters in seven days. The promised animal we were guaranteed( crocodile) was restricted. We were promised a croc each and he changed his mind at the last minute. No croc"s for us shoot even though it was specifically included on contract. We were not happy. He told us we were done hunting and another group of hunters were on their way in and we needed to leave. I tried to call the outfitter state side and complain. The Ph, then said that if we went back to Lusaka that he would arrange a Kafu hunt for the remaining days. OK. Good deal though no croc, the main reason my wife came along on the hunt. Off we go to Lusaka.We were left in hotel for 6 days, no contact from local agent, No response from Satellite phone in camp, Nothing. Tried numerous times to contact outfitter in USA, No luck. Was able to contact Gracy Travel to see if they might be able to reach outfitter stateside no luck. Left Lusaka for home. Outfitter gave no satisfactory rational for the abbreviated hunt and the promised hunt that never came off. They have your money. What can you do????? No refund for days not hunted.have a good day!!!!! The hunt itself was wonderful, trophy quality very good, got everything on license except a good crocodile, the main reason we booked with this PH. This was a face to face booking at SCI there could have been no misunderstanding about the parameters of the hunt.

That is truly awful Leonard... do you mind letting us know which PH this was so we do not make the mistake of booking with him or his outfit?

quote:

Originally posted by lb404:
Arranged a hunt with top tier Ph in Zambia, in the Luanga Valey. He sold me the hunts and I asked for a couple more days added on for good measure. He said it was unnecessary as all of the game on license would only take 7 days at best.We wanted two crocodiles. He said no problem and since I would be taking my wife, she could shoot the crocodile and any other animal on my license. We did the hunt and in fact were finished with a 1;1 hunt for two hunters in seven days. The promised animal we were guaranteed( crocodile) was restricted. We were promised a croc each and he changed his mind at the last minute. No croc"s for us shoot even though it was specifically included on contract. We were not happy. He told us we were done hunting and another group of hunters were on their way in and we needed to leave. I tried to call the outfitter state side and complain. The Ph, then said that if we went back to Lusaka that he would arrange a Kafu hunt for the remaining days. OK. Good deal though no croc, the main reason my wife came along on the hunt. Off we go to Lusaka.We were left in hotel for 6 days, no contact from local agent, No response from Satellite phone in camp, Nothing. Tried numerous times to contact outfitter in USA, No luck. Was able to contact Gracy Travel to see if they might be able to reach outfitter stateside no luck. Left Lusaka for home. Outfitter gave no satisfactory rational for the abbreviated hunt and the promised hunt that never came off. They have your money. What can you do????? No refund for days not hunted.have a good day!!!!! The hunt itself was wonderful, trophy quality very good, got everything on license except a good crocodile, the main reason we booked with this PH. This was a face to face booking at SCI there could have been no misunderstanding about the parameters of the hunt.

Note some of these Luangwa blocks are being sold by the operators to all and sundry. The PH therefore has very little control of the quota.

The concessions are up for grabs this year and it will be interesting to see how they are distributed.

Please provide names and details lb404.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by lb404:
Arranged a hunt with top tier Ph in Zambia, in the Luanga Valey. He sold me the hunts and I asked for a couple more days added on for good measure. He said it was unnecessary as all of the game on license would only take 7 days at best.We wanted two crocodiles. He said no problem and since I would be taking my wife, she could shoot the crocodile and any other animal on my license. We did the hunt and in fact were finished with a 1;1 hunt for two hunters in seven days. The promised animal we were guaranteed( crocodile) was restricted. We were promised a croc each and he changed his mind at the last minute. No croc"s for us shoot even though it was specifically included on contract. We were not happy. He told us we were done hunting and another group of hunters were on their way in and we needed to leave. I tried to call the outfitter state side and complain. The Ph, then said that if we went back to Lusaka that he would arrange a Kafu hunt for the remaining days. OK. Good deal though no croc, the main reason my wife came along on the hunt. Off we go to Lusaka.We were left in hotel for 6 days, no contact from local agent, No response from Satellite phone in camp, Nothing. Tried numerous times to contact outfitter in USA, No luck. Was able to contact Gracy Travel to see if they might be able to reach outfitter stateside no luck. Left Lusaka for home. Outfitter gave no satisfactory rational for the abbreviated hunt and the promised hunt that never came off. They have your money. What can you do????? No refund for days not hunted.have a good day!!!!! The hunt itself was wonderful, trophy quality very good, got everything on license except a good crocodile, the main reason we booked with this PH. This was a face to face booking at SCI there could have been no misunderstanding about the parameters of the hunt.

Note some of these Luangwa blocks are being sold by the operators to all and sundry. The PH therefore has very little control of the quota.

The concessions are up for grabs this year and it will be interesting to see how they are distributed.

It makes no difference.

The PH and outfitter involved in this fiasco should be named and shamed!

Well, I can certainly see the why some would want to stay...however, with my new job, I can tell ya, if it's a one animal hunt, and I've shot what I wanted. I am more than happy to leave early if the penalties aren't too great...so I can use my vacation time to hunt something else.

I say this admitting, I'm not much of a tourist. I don't mind seeing the sights as long as we are driving by on the way to the hunting grounds!

I am always looking on how to get extra days and extend the adventure when in Africa, not see how quickly I can get out of there. I have managed this on three occasions and consider it a real "bonus". Can't imagine anyone wanting to leave Africa, or lots of other places, early????? My thought would be, "why go in the first place", if this is ones attitude?? Forced to leave early is not an option with me and it's set in stone prior to arrival.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

I'd be highly pissed if I were 'ushered out' after my intended animals were killed early. BUT, I would make 100% upfront that in the event of my tags being filled 'early' I would want to do other things. Hell, just experience Africa. After all isn't that why people go there, to experience things, not just to fill the tags, send the heads and capes to the taxidermist and then go home? I suppose there are some that are there to just collect animals, but not for me. I like to follow my senses and see what life is like elsewhere. So far, I have never been anywhere where I actually looked forward to leaving for home. I love to travel and when hunting is involved, it doesn't replace my penchant for experiencing new cultures or places.

I wont name names, If someone wants to enter into an objective discussion we can talk 1:1. This is not the only horror story I could tell. How about an outfitter sends me and my best friend into the Selous Reserve in early July for a 10 day buffalo and plains game hunt. Grass was 16 feet high, green, green, green. Too green to burn. That is exactly what we did for 10 days. We each shot a buff on the last day. One a mature bull the other a young one but we got a buff( no refunds need be given) . We also only saw and shot one other animal on that trip a Hartabeeste. Not much of a hunt right. Or another goodie. In the Rungwa, on a one on one 21 day hunt, They flew me in on a caravan. not the twin I wanted and charged me 10K for the trip. I suspect that the owner of the plane was the concession holders friend. Cant prove it, but... That hunt, 80+k on that hunt, and only two of the major 5 were taken. Now I got some really nice animals on the hunt but I really was chatted up how many buffalo and elephants and lions and leopards were there for the taking. Wrong, in 23 days we saw only one heard of buffalo. One small heard of elephants no bulls, Looked for them and at the ones that were there 21 days. Lions no lions to speak of. Had two on baits for18 days, one too young, one too smart to show up except before first light and after dark but we hunted 21 days for them. Shot everything on license and ran out of baits---no more buff, no shoot-able elephant, no hippo, on and on. Had to send a hunting car to buy 4 rangy cows to use for supplemental bait.
All in all I have had a good time in Africa. None of my big four hunts has worked out as well as it should have. Do you have the goods to sell or not?? My wife wont go back because she feel that all outfitters and Ph's lie about what they can deliver. That is sad. The other sadness is that my enthusiasm for hunting Africa has been reduced a lot. I feel that outfitters and phs see me as a cash advance for their bottom line. I hate that in me and them.
Have though about it a lot. Getting older now and less able to do any rigorous hunting. My expectations are less which may be good. I might look into a plains game hunt this or next year to get my game back. After all that is how i developed that great craving that only Africa can satisfy.

quote:

Originally posted by lb404:

We were left in hotel for 6 days, no contact from local agent, No response from Satellite phone in camp, Nothing. Tried numerous times to contact outfitter in USA, No luck... Outfitter gave no satisfactory rational for the abbreviated hunt and the promised hunt that never came off. They have your money. What can you do????? .....This was a face to face booking at SCI there could have been no misunderstanding about the parameters of the hunt.

They flew me in on a caravan, not the twin I wanted and charged me 10K for the trip... That hunt, 80+k on that hunt, and only two of the major 5 were taken. ... I really was chatted up how many buffalo and elephants and lions and leopards were there for the taking. Wrong.... None of my big four hunts has worked out as well as it should have. Do you have the goods to sell or not??

My wife wont go back because she feels that all outfitters and Ph's lie about what they can deliver. That is sad. The other sadness is that my enthusiasm for hunting Africa has been reduced a lot. I feel that outfitters and phs see me as a cash advance for their bottom line.

Stories like these have kept me from booking a trip to Africa.

~

I assure you that this is not a common occurrence and there is a wealth of information on this site which will point you in the right direction.

It just proves that to book with an Outfitter that is a member of the countries relevant Professional Hunting Ass. does work for the client's benefit.
Then matters can be sorted our if there was something done wrong.

All of my hunts were booked through a reputable, well thought of agent. Pro hunters with excellent recommendations and, I thought, stellar reputations. Seems that anyone is coruptable. You truely would be suprised as well as dismayed at whom they are. My main reason for posting was to make folks aware that scoundrals abound in this business. Often these guys do things to survive. They forget they are there for you not the game department or their bank or for whatever consideration gets them in the game! What, as a consumer, can we do when we have been taken advantage of? Voting with your dollars is one way, but what happens when that doesnt work? Legal action? Thought of that but it only benefits the lawyers involved. Not a good remedy in my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by lb404:
All of my hunts were booked through a reputable, well thought of agent. Pro hunters with excellent recommendations and, I thought, stellar reputations. Seems that anyone is coruptable. You truely would be suprised as well as dismayed at whom they are. My main reason for posting was to make folks aware that scoundrals abound in this business. Often these guys do things to survive. They forget they are there for you not the game department or their bank or for whatever consideration gets them in the game! What, as a consumer, can we do when we have been taken advantage of? Voting with your dollars is one way, but what happens when that doesnt work? Legal action? Thought of that but it only benefits the lawyers involved. Not a good remedy in my opinion.

lb404:
It will only cost you a little time to fix it. Not only do these guys need to be exposed. Your fellow AR members (PH's included) deserve to know the crooks,or the crooks will keep on winning.jc

We need to know who they are, period. Continuing to complain without identifying these outfitters at some point ceases to be complaining and becomes whining.

There are a lot of us here who would like to know the identities of these people so we don't get taken as well.

I agree completely. What is the purpose of outlining a problem such as you experienced above without giving specifics? Are you keeping mum to avoid fouling up some negotiations that might be taking place between you and the outfitter in question? Otherwise a post like this is worse than useless...it might serve to make a first-timer nervous enough not to ever book a hunt at all. Not helpful.