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Trying to make a selection between two loads for an elephant hunt in October. Both loads are with Bridger solid bullets, one a 550 grain bullet, the other a 575 grain bullet. The 575 grain bullet has a slower velocity (approximately 100 fps), but a significantly larger meplat. Both loads are accurate. I lean towards the heavy bullet with the larger meplat, but wonder about the velocity. I am sure both would work fine but was curious what views other might have.   Mike | ||
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Mike, The way these are shooting in your rifle I don't see how you can go wrong with either. Having said this I believe the extra velocity with the 550 Grain bullet might help penetration a little and since you are going for Jumbo...that would be my choice. For Buffalo I think the heaver bullet would be my choice since it may leave a little better blood trail. ****************************************************************** R. Lee Ermey: "The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." ****************************************************************** We're going to be "gifted" with a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don't, Which purportedly covers at least ten million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that didn't read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a President, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, for which we'll be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke!!!!! 'What the hell could possibly go wrong?' | |||
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mike , heres my 2 cents.. slower velocity plus larger meplat = less penetration, even with the extra grains i would think the extra friction of the larger cutting surface would outweigh the extra grains .. for elephant i would say that penetration is everything , especially when presented with a second or third shot that is far less than ideal , its the penetration that will matter. what muzzle velocity are you getting with each ? "The greatest threat to our wildlife is the thought that someone else will save it” www.facebook.com/ivancartersafrica www.ivancarterwca.org www.ivancarter.com ivan@ivancarter.com | |||
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I like the heavier bullet, but you know how I am. At Elephant yardage (footage?) there is not much difference. Rich DRSS | |||
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He listed this in his post: 550 grain Bridger solid, .420 meplat, 2109 fps (Picture 1 above) 575 grain Bridger solid, .450 meplat, 2001 fps (Picture 2 above) ------------------------------- Some Pictures from Namibia Some Pictures from Zimbabwe An Elephant Story | |||
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you are right charles sorry ,i should have read closer .. so 5% slower a little less than 5% heavier and 7% more meplat so the real question is will 5% more weight counteract the 5% less speed and 7% more meplat ... i do agree though that at close range both will work fine . "The greatest threat to our wildlife is the thought that someone else will save it” www.facebook.com/ivancartersafrica www.ivancarterwca.org www.ivancarter.com ivan@ivancarter.com | |||
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Elmer Keith asked me to vote the 570 for him. | |||
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So what do you think Ivan, what would your conclusion be? Thanks to everyone for their input. Mike | |||
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So far the poll results show that 62% of the respondents have voted for the wrong bullet/load. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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I would use the heavier weight bullet but trickle a grain or two more powder into it and get the velocity up to 2,050 to 2,100 fps. The regulation shouldn't change enough to cause any problems when shooting elephant at 25 yards. Apparently Ivan doesn't buy into the larger meplat = more penetration mantra. 465H&H | |||
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Yeah, you can't have penetration without velocity. Slowing down the 575 grain bullet is a bad move. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Nice cartridge but kicks too damn hard. | |||
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Does it even matter? When most elephants are shot with .375s or .458s, that dinosaur stomper will probably work adequately with either bullet. Perhaps the operative question should be "Do I shoot this howitzer myself, or bring along a proxy?"  | |||
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These loads were 99 grains of RL15. I am going to bump the 575 grain load up to 99.5 and 100 and see what velocity I get. I think if I can get 2050 to 2100 that would be fine. Hopefully the group will hold together with a little more zip. Mike | |||
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Mike FWIW there is a point of diminishing returns when it comes to meplat size, at least as far as penetration is concerned. Dan and I did a test one year with full bore diameter meplats and they did not do near as well as the "regular" ones. | |||
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Damn but they shoot so well . . .  Mike | |||
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550 or 575? Who cares? Either way it is too much gun!  ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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The brain is not going to care whether a 550 or a 575 gr. bullet passes through it. Straight-line and adequate penetration is what you need for brain shots on ele. A flat meplate with straight taper from body to meplate "helps" with the straight-line. Velocity and bullet wieght are the keys to depth. If I were in Vegas and had to bet on penetration in an ele skull, I would bet on the 550 in above design at listed velocities. Now if we were just talking "thump" for body shots like lets say a charging lion and you were knelt down shooting straight through the whole body from head to tail, the larger meplate and heavier bullet might have an edge. Or even if you were trying to break a hip on a departing ele...the 575 "might" be better. Again, my vote was for the 550 in the above design and velocity if we are talking brain shots on ele. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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I remember that a wise man (or was it a wise ass) once said that there was no such thing as too much gun. I wish I could give proper attribution to the quote but I cannot recall the author . . . Lane, hard to argue with your logic. I think I had just fallen in love with the groups the 575 grain load shot. Mike | |||
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I'm assuming it wasn't Will :-) | |||
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I don't recall who it was but he was definitely a wise ass. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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my 500NE with the GS Custom 570gr solid @ 2180 fps has ample penetration, going right thru on all occasions. Harris Safaris PO Box 853 Gillitts RSA 3603 www.southernafricansafaris.co.za https://www.facebook.com/pages...=aymt_homepage_panel "There is something about safari life that makes you forget all your sorrows and feel as if you had drunk half a bottle of champagne." - Karen Blixen, | |||
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Will, If the .500 NE is too much gun, what is the right amount of gun? According to your book, "Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game"(also refered to as the Bible of Africa Big Game Hunting in some circles)on page 52 you suggest the .416 caliber 400 grain/2400 feet/sec as the perfect elephant/buffalo rifle. Questions: 1. Since publishing your book in 2005 and current the advancements in bullet design, metallurgy and powder technology ...Do you continue to believe the .416 is the best? 2. MJines 500NE appears to be dead-on. If he can shoot 4-6 rounds and hit the bull, why is that too much gun? please advise dale | |||
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mike , my vote goes to the smaller bullet at the faster speed ... in my experience as soon as you get around or below the 2000 fps mark you have serious drop in penetration ...if you are close , which i am sure you will be and the elephant has his head very high and you have to go through a lot of bone , that could make the difference ... i agree if you can get 2050 or 2100 you will be better off .. hope this helps , i fear it may simply muddy the waters though!!!! "The greatest threat to our wildlife is the thought that someone else will save it” www.facebook.com/ivancartersafrica www.ivancarterwca.org www.ivancarter.com ivan@ivancarter.com | |||
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I was just pulling a "John Taylor" in the book. I figured most everyone can manage a 416 given enough rifle weight. Playing to my audience? But I'd rather have a 500 over a 470 over a 416, but a 500 is just too much gun for me. I just can't take the abuse. So I'm stuck with 470's and 416's!! ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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The reason I like the 416's is that I could make a 7.5 lb. rifle and still not have detached retinas! ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Well Mike you know I'm not a hunter of elephant, but I am a studant of ballistics, and bullet design. Haveing said that, I believe as Mike North fork says, the full bore meplat is a little too much of a good thing. The extra resistance of the meplat and loss of velocity, IMO will give you less penetration than the lighter bullet with just a little less meplat. If both bullets had the same degree of meplat, and the velocity was close to the same I would vote for the heavier bullet, but as it stands now the extra meplat is more of a detrement to penetration IMO, so I voted for the lighter bullet, even at the same speed! The accuracy of either is great, but not enough difference between them to have any effect on a close frontal brain shot, but the larger meplat may just retard penetration enough to have a detremental effect!  ................The above is nothing more than my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions, and orfaces!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Mike For elephant I would go with the 550gr bullet, with the higher velocity and smaller meplat. Penetration is what you need. A 9,3, that gets to the brain is much better than a 700, that does not. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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A friend of mine shot a big Hwange bull with his new 500 WR last week. He was using original Kynoch ammo. After the first shoulder shot the ele seemed stunned he said and didnt move, after the 2nd barrel it dropped in its tracks. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Elephant Hunt Poll Question: .500 NE Load
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