Each year there are minor "developments" in Africa from the hunter's perspective. I use quotations because the word normally has a positive connotation.

This year I noted:

1. Upon arrival at JNB, there is no longer a need to locate your gun case and sign a log before going through customs. Go straight to the SAPS office, your guns will show up there.

2. SAPS computers are down more often than not. Expect a long wait as all permits have to be transcribed by hand. It helps to take photocopies of your 4457, return tickets, passport etc.

3. Afton no longer takes guests to nearby restuarants. Instead they provide a steak dinnner where your only choice is rare, medium or well done.

4. SAA apparently now allows domestic shipment of firearms (long guns) to any airport besides George. Can anyone confirm this?

5. A new airport north of Durban will be open in 2010.

6. Reedbuck are now on a special permit basis in KZN. This has to be obtained well in advance.

7. SAA wants your ammo packed in your locked gun case. Delta wants it in a separate case for the International portion. Very awkward if you are connecting. You have to repack when you claim your bags in JNB. You can't check bags through to a second destination in RSA, or from your initial departure point via JNB back to the USA, unless your connecting time is less than 3 hours.

8. The Protea (correction Premier) lounge is now closed at JNB (or at least it was when I was there, on a Saturday) and the post office PCs are broken. So no way to check emails unless you take your own laptop and use the WiFi areas at JNB.

9. RSA is still bogged down with BEE and other political BS. I wouldn't go near the place in 2010. It will be a zoo run by a den of thieves.

10. US Customs always flags hunters for a 4457 check upon return to the USA now. Unless you want to deal with a lot of crap, make sure you have your 4457s in hand upon return.

11. TSA will use bolt cutters on your bags if you use a normal lock. They don't mind destroying your luggage, even if they could just cut the lock and leave your luggage intact.

12. Tuffpak doesn't mean they won't damage your guns. I had a rifle in a soft case in a Tuffpak ... they managed to mutilate the front sight hood and break the ghost ring sight off the back.

I am sure there are other changes, I just did not encounter them.

Russ

2..... get used to the computers being offline with any SA Gvt dept. I've been waiting 4 months for a simple change to my firearms permit and 9 months to get a death certificate issued!

4 is incorrect. SA airports can now only handle firearms if they have a member of staff on duty who is trained and licenced to transfer firearms between aircraft and baggage hall etc.

Also, (and this is long standing international law) only aircraft types that have no passenger access between cabin and hold when the aircraft is in flight are permitted to carry firearms etc.......It's advisable to have the aircraft type checked and put into print by the travel agent.

8. Use the Premier Club lounge because it's better, provides more comfort, food, booze, showers and has a separate smoking area all for about US$20-25 per person or so.

The Premier lounge is the one that's closed. Protea was a typo.

Two separate sources (SAPS and the Security Co that handles the guns at JNB) told me long guns can go to any airport that SAA serves now except George.

Russ,

Is the Premier Club closed permanently or for refurb?

Do you mean can go or cannot go?..... your above post says can go to any airport that SAA serves now except George.


I'm fairly sure the domestic airport situation is as I said and I wonder if the guys you spoke to were referring to that being the case on the day you travelled?

I'll try to call PHASA tomorrow for an update to confirm the situation

Just to confirm with Steve or Russ, you guys are in apparently in the know. I am supposedly checked through Joberg via BA out of Heathrow and Air Botswana to Maun with no reason to ever see my rifle or my ammo once I get them on the plane in the U.S.

Same holds true for flying back return trip, same milk run in reverse. I have the 4457 and the TSA locks, etc. Gracy says not a problem, but I hate that Joberg airport and I sure don't want any crap.

Can you confirm? at least your opinion I would value.

Leaving on safari next Thursday.
Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by yellowstone:
Just to confirm with Steve or Russ, you guys are in apparently in the know. I am supposedly checked through Joberg via BA out of Heathrow and Air Botswana to Maun with no reason to ever see my rifle or my ammo once I get them on the plane in the U.S.

Same holds true for flying back return trip, same milk run in reverse. I have the 4457 and the TSA locks, etc. Gracy says not a problem, but I hate that Joberg airport and I sure don't want any crap.

Can you confirm? at least your opinion I would value.

Leaving on safari next Thursday.
Thanks

I'm not sure what you're asking.

Do you mean that you're asking if BA will transfer your rifles to Air Bots in Johannesburg?

If that is what you're asking, I'd recommend you ask the question to your travel agent...... the other person that might be able to help is Aubrey Kent aka 458aubs.

You might also like to check the aircraft type for the reason mentioned in my previous post.

I'm sure the Afton house not "allowing" guests out fo their compound is my fault.. I damned near got into a knock-down, drag out with them last time I was there.. I told them I didn't expect to be treated as a captive of their camp and forced to eat their shitty steak.. I wanted to go to Spur and by God, I am going!!
I lived in SA for a year and know how to handle myself just fine.. They didnt take to kindly to that..

Good info, Russ.. I guess the last time you and I were there was it for the premier lounge, eh?

Yeah Steve,
Gracy Travel has answered the question. I just don't want any surprises when I get to Joberg and walk over to Air Bots anc check-in. I am not hunting in SA or driving throuh SA so I was told I don't need all the firearms paper work.

The only reason I wondered is because I had an an acquaintance who said he had to retrieve his rifle from SAA and carry it to Air Bots and re-check in. He managed to obtain the necessary paper work at the airport (firearms permit) but at an additional charge.

I have intended to pack the ammo in luggage separate from the rifle, with some kind of lock on the ammo box.

I don't want to see that rifle until I get to Maun.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Russ Gould:

1. Upon arrival at JNB, there is no longer a need to locate your gun case and sign a log before going through customs. Go straight to the SAPS office, your guns will show up there.


7. SAA wants your ammo packed in your locked gun case. Delta wants it in a separate case for the International portion. Very awkward if you are connecting. You have to repack when you claim your bags in JNB. You can't check bags through to a second destination in RSA, or from your initial departure point via JNB back to the USA, unless your connecting time is less than 3 hours.


10. US Customs always flags hunters for a 4457 check upon return to the USA now. Unless you want to deal with a lot of crap, make sure you have your 4457s in hand upon return.

11. TSA will use bolt cutters on your bags if you use a normal lock. They don't mind destroying your luggage, even if they could just cut the lock and leave your luggage intact./QUOTE]



Russ, when were you at JNB last? Much of this is completely opposite our experience in July.

We had to sign for our rifles and submit ot serial number examination at both JNB and PLZ on the inbound and outbound flights, and we were harrassed [in PLZ actually held in a small room with the "security" guy blocking the door, holding his hands out] for money " a little something for me?" at all four opportunities.

SAA absolutely required the ammo to be separate from the rifles, preferably in a separate case, and the smaller airports appear to follow the rules and require the ammo be checked separately, in it's own hard case!

US Customs in Washington seemed to have no idea who had rifles and who did not, upon examination of the 4457 they did not even look at the rifles and did not even require our boots be sprayed, it was the easierst entry of my last 7 trips.

We did check our bags from PLZ to our final destinations but that connection was probably between 3-4 hours.

The TSA locks on our Pelican suitcases were cut off in RSA and the contents were searched for anything they could easily carry or sell, we only lost one cell phone however, they did not want the dirty laundry. The bags arrived in Washungton with no locks at all.

Les

September 2008 and June 2009 I found:

No.1 Correct. I Walked through both times and all I waited was an hour at the SAPS office. I did all my own paper work which isn't hard and didn't use a Meet and Greet service. (Spent that money on animals).

No.3 Too buggered to go anywhere else anyway. The Steaks were fine and the beer was cold so no problem as I'm not a Vegan.

No. 4 Transfer to Bloomfontein no problem at all with rifles on board. Great service and the Bloomfontein guy found me with my rifle in his hands and took it to the car rental booth for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Scottyboy:
I'm sure the Afton house not "allowing" guests out fo their compound is my fault.. I damned near got into a knock-down, drag out with them last time I was there.. I told them I didn't expect to be treated as a captive of their camp and forced to eat their shitty steak.. I wanted to go to Spur and by God, I am going!!
I lived in SA for a year and know how to handle myself just fine.. They didnt take to kindly to that..

Good info, Russ.. I guess the last time you and I were there was it for the premier lounge, eh?

thanks a lot for helping the rest of us.

I wonder why the Afton folks do not want you to leave the "compound"?

They always took us shopping and I love to eat at the Ocean Basket [or is it Seafood Basket I can never remember] or the Italian Resturant.

OK, I've just called PHASA to get the up to date situation, which is:

On arrival at Johannesburg it's a good idea to to go the the firearms trolley that is against the wall of the baggage hall to confirm that your firearms arrived on your flight. Then you go to the SAPS firearms office and process your temporary import permit etc.

Regarding the domestic flights. Whoever told Russ they were no longer carrying firearms on domestic flight was wrong. It could be there was a misunderstanding and that whoever told him was referring to just that day.

The situation is that the SA airports need to have someone on duty who is trained and licenced to transport the firearms between the aircraft and baggage hall. If they don't have anyone on duty who can do this, your firearm will not be accepted for travel. As I said previously, the situation might vary from day to day and it's advisable to get the fact that you're travelling with sporting firearms (make sure you use that exact phrase) mentioned in the comments section of your booking and also make sure you have a printed copy of that booking when you travel.

As I also said earlier, international aviation law decrees that firearms may not travel on commercial passenger aircraft that permit passenger access between cabin and baggage hold whilst the aircraft is in flight....... so you need to have the aircraft type etc confirmed in writing before you leave home.

These links might be of help:

http://www.shakariconnection.c...l-with-firearms.html

http://www.shakariconnection.c...ort-regulations.html

T'was no fault of my own.. They fully expected all of us (6 of us) to roll over, play good dog and eat what they wanted to feed us, then charge us 25 bucks in the process.. I have several buddies whom live in Joburg not too far from the Afton house with whom I'd already made plans to go have a beer and dinner with that evening.. So when it was brought up to the staff at Afton that we were going to be leaving the compound in a taxi that evening, they acted like I was in the middle of Somalia and that me being just a dumb naive Yank, would have NO idea on how to handle myself on my own... Neddless to say, that did not settle well with any of us in our party.. We left, had a great dinner with old friends and all came back in one piece.. Damn Miracle, I dare say!
So I didnt ruin shit for you JDollar.. You can blame the piss poor service of Afton for that one.. It was the 1st and the last time I'll ever use them. In fact, it was Gracy Travel who recomended us to stay there..
This was the same trip they double charged one of my buds for the "meet and greet" at Tembo, then tried to say that another one of us was unpaid and tried to double tap him for the room and board fee. Luckily he had printed off each and every email transaction with them prior to leaving home.. Lots of Afton red faces that morning.. I was ashamed to have ever recomended to my buds on the trip with me that we try the place.

Their service sucks ass.

I've gotta say I've never been a particular fan of Afton.

I appreciate a lot of forum members love the place but I could never see why.

My personal choice is the Intercontinental right next to the airport. Sure it's more expensive but facilities are great, if you want a cheap meal or shops, all you have to do is walk across the road to the airport. (Where you'll even find an Ocean Basket)

As far as I'm concerned, it's worth every penny.

I like the Intercontinental as well. However, in that short walk I have been repeatedly accosted by people who pretty much demand to help me.

Should we just tell these guy to F off or what?

It unnerves me.

I've never found it necessary to be rude to them. I just tell them I'm fine and don't need any help but thanks for the offer........... and then they F off.

Shakari- like when i was in nairobi and a guy told me i could not go to a special club I was polite told him what part of my ass he could kiss. Took my 6' 200lbs self to city center had a great time and when home no worries

quote:

Should we just tell these guy to F off or what?

I also usually find just a firm, polite 'no thanks' works well when ever I arrive in JHB after a trip, or any airport for that matter.

Scottyboy, I aggree with not being 'kept' in the house but man, either Spur has gone 180 on their food or Afton makes some crap steak!

ddrhook, I'm 6'4" 225lbs and do alot of outdoor sport - I never assume size as a safety net...size is irrelevant to confidence and skill. There are 150lbs guys who would flatten guys much large before they knew what was happening -ask the ex-Marine who was beaten shitless by transvestites outside the office of a company I worked for in Ecuador. He went to help someone they were mugging and seconds latter was apprently lying bleeding on the sidewalk! Confidence and alertness make you way less of a target, as I am sure already know.

The whole Spur steak versus the Afton steak was moot.. I had made plans to have beers at the Spur down the road from Afton with 3 of my buds whom live there in Joburg and wasnt going to break that.. I hadnt seen them in over a year.

And I think Spur is damned good, thank you very much!! It always seems to be that there are ALWAYS some smokin hot Afrikaaner honeys in there.. So maybe its the scenery that helps the flavor of my steak!
In Pretoria, it was kind of our own little tradition when we had a bit of time off for a night or so to hit a Spur and then onto a certain "bar" near the main freeway (you know which one!!) for the remainder of the night..

To answer several questions above

1. I was there four days ago.
2. SAA will ship long guns on any domestic connection except the connection to George. I never said they will NOT ship long guns domestic (Shakari ... you seem to have misread what I stated). There was a time when only a handful of airports were equipped with security staff to handle firearms. For example, Richards Bay was not one of them, so you could not travel to Richards Bay if you had a gun, you had to go to Durban. Now Richards Bay is OK, according to these two sources at JNB, at least. However, as an aside, the discount airlines (Mango Kulula etc) will not accept guns.
3. Regarding checking through of firearms, my understanding is that you can only check them through (ie to your connecting flight, coming or going) if the connection time is less than 3 hours. Judge G tried to check his guns to VFA, even though he was overnighting at Afton. I personally saw the tag on the case, it said VFA, while the Judge was getting his "transit permit" at SAPS. He was a little put out. A transit permit means they hold the guns at SAPS, you can claim them later. I ran afoul of this last year. We had transit permits going to Zim. On the way back, we showed these permits at Musina. They made us get new permits, "Temporary Import" permits that is. Don't mix the two up when you fill out your SAPS 520.

5. The criterion they apply is 3 hour connection, otherwise you have to claim your firearms, get a transit permit, then when you check in for your connection, the airline staff retrieves your guns from the SAPS office and goes to the little "Shake Down" room where you are asked for "Something for a cooldrink" and have to check the SNs. Someone needs to straighten out that shakedown situation. I never give them money, but last time my guns ended up on the wrong plane. Maybe a coincidence, but I don't think so.

quote:

It always seems to be that there are ALWAYS some smokin hot Afrikaaner honeys in there.. So maybe its the scenery that helps the flavor of my steak!
In Pretoria, it was kind of our own little tradition when we had a bit of time off for a night or so to hit a Spur and then onto a certain "bar" near the main freeway (you know which one!!) for the remainder of the night..

OK OK...I understand now!!!