Fake or NO Fake http://www.facebook.com/?ref=h...6755&id=268871353537

I bet it is real but behind a high fence and several ph:s with rifles...

We know how the Masai do it, by surrounding the lion with many people.

I would like to know how he did it.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
We know how the Masai do it, by surrounding the lion with many people.

That was how they USED to do it decades back - now the safest and most effective method is poison and they can take out a whole bunch in one go.

Easy to ID, its a pen raised lion. But, I still wouldn't want to try and kill one with a spear!!!

spearing the lion is soooo easy....they will come right to you...fast...

...it's surviving AFTER the spear is in that is the problem!!!!!

troy

He might be genuine. I was so sure that it was one of those canned hunts from RSA until I saw the video. Looks like he hunts from a tree stand, as when he explains in the video he demonstrates the angle of the spear coming in at a steep angle and then later explains the physics of the kill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JZfCT3_FQs

Jas

quote:

Originally posted by Jas Madhavan:
He might be genuine. I was so sure that it was one of those canned hunts from RSA until I saw the video. Looks like he hunts from a tree stand, as when he explains in the video he demonstrates the angle of the spear coming in at a steep angle and then later explains the physics of the kill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JZfCT3_FQs

Jas

I don't think anyone is disputing that he killed it with a spear, I for one am not. But one look at the lion, tells you it was a raised lion, not a wild cat! Likely killed behind a high fence, regardless of size. They have trees in high-fence blocks too.

As stated before, I for one am not totally against high-fence lion hunts, just don't have any interest in it myself.

Does that spear meet the minimum energy requirements for dangerous game??

All that success with a push feed - hardly seems credible!

SA lion, pen raised, confused cat , with back up big bores over the shoulder. Not calling bullshit on the fact he speared it, but would like to se this guy take on a real lion with that spear. Better know his blood type and have a lot on hand if he survives the mauling.
Pure bravado bullshit to impress the uninformed back home. Would LOVE to see the video of that.

Dikembe Mtumbo killed a lion with a spear. He said it was asleep and kind of old.

Here is his website.
http://www.huntingwithspears.c...arHuntingMuseum.aspx

What next? Swiss army knives? Bloody ridiculous.

quote:

Aaron Neilson
one of us
Posted 19 December 2010 16:47 Hide Post
Easy to ID, its a pen raised lion. But, I still wouldn't want to try and kill one with a spear!!!

Aaron,


How do you know it was a pen-raised lion? The speared lion looked remarkably like the ones in your photos.


dale

Same 1,500 acre plot, same tree. And I am sure that Aaron will accept that as a compliment.

Some of those Lions illustrated I hunted and were taken in a 13,000 square kilometer unfenced concession in Zambia.

I have no idea how this lion was taken with the spear, or if it was a pin-raised lion or not! I think however after seeing the set-up he uses to do a lion is not so hard to understand, and would be fairly easy with any lion that will come to a bait.

According to his diagram his stand is a common tree stand placed directly above a bait attached to the base of the tree, so the very heavy spears (made of heavy water pipe and heavy steel head) can be dropped straight down on top of the lion. This would work with any lion wild or tame! The danger is when he doesn’t hit the lion right, and the follow-up could get nasty. According to the guy the weight of that spear causes it to do extra damage because of the weight of the shaft making the shaft try to lay flat with the ground causing the spearhead to keep cutting from the lion’s movements.

There was a group of PHs who were taking elephant on film at the DSC show a couple years ago, and they weren’t throwing from the safety of a tree.

Don’t get me wrong, I think any spear hunting is a foolish practice, but I believe it can be done quite safely, the way this guy does it!

..................

quote:

Originally posted by daleW:

quote:

Aaron Neilson
one of us
Posted 19 December 2010 16:47 Hide Post
Easy to ID, its a pen raised lion. But, I still wouldn't want to try and kill one with a spear!!!

Aaron,


How do you know it was a pen-raised lion? The speared lion looked remarkably like the ones in your photos.


dale

Dale - This lion looks NOTHING like the lions I have shot, period! Look closely, and you can easily see the difference. If you can't, like I said before, I'm not sure what to tell you. It really comes down to experience, and a little knowledge about cats. Nothing more than that.

Guys like Dave Fulson and Fairgame, who also have alot of experience with cats will tell you the same, as they have already done!

Dale,

That lion really doesn't look like the lions Aaron posted pix of. Take a closer look. You don't need to be an expert to see the difference.

As for the spear hunter I think he is much more interested in the spear and what it does than the actual hunt.

Mark

+1. There is little doubt in my mind it is pen raised.

Like Dave, I would also like to see a video.

quote:

Dale,

That lion really doesn't look like the lions Aaron posted pix of. Take a closer look. You don't need to be an expert to see the difference.

As for the spear hunter I think he is much more interested in the spear and what it does than the actual hunt.

Mark

Mark and Aaron

Please enlighten me on the difference between the speared lion that was supposedly pen raised and the trophy lions wild lions shown in the photo's with Aaron.

This is the simple question I have been asking....How can you tell the difference between a pen-raised and wild lion from a photo?

There must some sort of identification measures to determine a true lion vs. a fake lion. What are they?

Please advise


dale

quote:

Originally posted by daleW:

quote:

Dale,

That lion really doesn't look like the lions Aaron posted pix of. Take a closer look. You don't need to be an expert to see the difference.

As for the spear hunter I think he is much more interested in the spear and what it does than the actual hunt.

Mark

Mark and Aaron

Please enlighten me on the difference between the speared lion that was supposedly pen raised and the trophy lions wild lions shown in the photo's with Aaron.

This is the simple question I have been asking....How can you tell the difference between a pen-raised and wild lion from a photo?

There must some sort of identification measures to determine a true lion vs. a fake lion. What are they?

Please advise


dale

Dale - You tell us the difference, then we will tell you if you are right?

Secondly, do a Google search for the Barbary Lion. The Barbary lion was originally a WILD north African lion, with outrageously big manes, often going down along the belly line all the way to the hips. The Barbary lion genetics are often still evident in many of the SA pen raised lions, thus the reason many of their manes are so outrageous.

But Dale, you must just LOOK and tell us what differences you see? Its very obvious in the spear hunted lion, compared to ANY of the lions I have shot, or my clients have shot. What difference do you see???????

Go to the link below, you will see a lion shot by Rick Steiner. You can see the obvious difference from that lion, and all the rest. You can also see the genetic similarity to his lion and that of the Barbary lion. Then click on the link to More Info, and go to the outfitters website who he shot the lion with. You will see another lion in the Photo Gallery that is OBVIOUSLY a genetic link to the Barbary Lion.

http://www.huntingreport.com/t...lts.cfm?species=Lion

Also see some of the lion trophy pics at this site http://www.serapasafaris.co.za/ These too are pen-raised lions!

Below is a picture of a WILD lion taken in Tanzania a couple years ago by a good friend of mine, he's also a Tanzania PH. This is an exceptional wild lion, but you can obviously see the difference in this lion, and some from the links above.


http://www.huntingreport.com/t...lts.cfm?species=Lion

Another example of a fabulous WILD lion, but the difference is easy to see!! You will have to go to the link.

http://images.travelpod.com/us...gorongoro-crater.jpg

quote:

All that success with a push feed - hardly seems credible!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
According to the guy the weight of that spear causes it to do extra damage because of the weight of the shaft making the shaft try to lay flat with the ground causing the spearhead to keep cutting from the lion’s movements.

In a related note, bull fight wounds (on the torero, not the bull!) are exactly the same. They are called "triple trajectory wounds."

1. Bull lowers his head and impales you. OUCH!!

2. Bull raises his head tearing and gouging horn through flesh as you go upwards.

3. You, now having no connection to terra firma, are grossly top heavy and fall forward towards the bull again tearing through flesh. Just like the heavy spear, your body is trying to lie flat its just the damage is being inflicted in 180 degrees. It makes a Z shaped wound.

4. (things get a little confused and messy here) Bull either throws you out of the ring or over his back and then stomps the bejeezus out of you, OR, the picadors, etc, come and goad him into charging them and leaving the torero.

I never judge people who love or dislike bullfighting much like I dont judge people who love or hate hunting. Personally, I love it. My wife goes with me to root for the bull.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
What next? Swiss army knives? Bloody ridiculous.

In a pinch, even that would do!

http://blog.coldsteel.com/2010/01/co...aves-life.html