I hope this is close enough to the right forum.

I have a new rifle. It has a rear sight that is a kind of aslight V shape with a notch in the middle, and a front sight that has a bead.

I am used to flat sights. Equal light on both sides, flat across the top, pull the trigger.

I'm not exactly sure what to do with this V and bead configuration. Is the V supposed to go through the middle of the bead? That seems right. Is the bead supposed to sit above the V? Is the bead supposed to sit down in the notch?

I don't know.

If it's a fine bead, I've always put the bead right down in the base of the V. Otherwise, you can't be consistent. That's just me.

If it's a coarser bead, say on a big bore, I prefer a peep.

Frankly, with my old eyes, I'm not sure I could shoot any iron sights other than a peep anymore.

Try it with the bead down in the notch (fine bead) and the bead centered on your target. As the range inreases, raise the bead higher in the rear sight. And whether close range or far, keep the bead centered on the target.

It's what works for my 470.

In the old days - before we knew anything about scopes - we all used bead sights of various persuasions.

First of all you have to have good eye sight to be able to use open sights, because you have to also see the target clearly.

I am unable to do this at my age.

For accurate shooting at the longer range, you need a very small bead, and a very shallow V.

We used to place the bead in the V, and aim just below the target at shorter range.

Use the same aiming as above, and place the bead on target at the range the rifle is sighted on.

For longer range we used to make the bead plus part of its base visible.

Again, for this to work, you really need to have very good eye sight.

quote:

Originally posted by frank4570:
I hope this is close enough to the right forum.

I have a new rifle. It has a rear sight that is a kind of aslight V shape with a notch in the middle, and a front sight that has a bead.

I am used to flat sights. Equal light on both sides, flat across the top, pull the trigger.

I'm not exactly sure what to do with this V and bead configuration. Is the V supposed to go through the middle of the bead? That seems right. Is the bead supposed to sit above the V? Is the bead supposed to sit down in the notch?

I don't know.

Two questions?

What Make and what type of rifle are we discussing?

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You have a fine sight setup, Frank, but you are going to have to take it to the range and use it at both 50 and 100 yards to get the most out of it.

You are clearly used to pistol sights what with the note of equal light on either side of what must be a front blade. That is not/not how to use the broad, shallow vee back sight and front bead.

As posted above, the first and hard rule is "get the bead down in the vee" That means the bead bottom touches the bottom of the vee. Then you sight on your target. Starting with paper, you put the black center of the target balancing on top of the bead at any range. Fire off at least 4 shots, two from each barrel if it's a double and see where they print. You may have to fire another 4 as you get used to the rifle and the sight picture.

Ideally, the rounds print two inches above the base of the black target at 100 yards. That will give you a point blank range on larger critters like deer and antelope to at least 150 yards so you will not have to mess with raising the bead in the vee to compensate for longer range.

If you print right on the base of the black, then you are, effectively fine at whatever distance the target is, but you are going to have to raise that bead a tad to shoot at distances more than 50 yards further.

Key is to practice and know where the rifle prints at 50 and 100 or longer with the bead down in the bottom of that back vee.

Don't be discouraged if it takes a while. I've been using irons for 25 years and I still fail to get the bead down in the vee from time to time

Regards, Tim

For what it's worth, I put the bead at where I want the point of impact, rather than put the target on top of the bead. Personal preference only. I know my double is just accurate enough to place both barrels within the rather large white bead if I do my job.

This obscures the bottom of the target, of course. But for ranges under 100 yards, the animal target is large enough that it doesn't make much difference to me. And the plus is that I'm not trying to guess how far above the bead im supposed to aim - just put the bead where the bullet is supposed to hit and squeeze....

Like I said it's just my personal preference. Biggest issue is to practice, practice, practice.

I enjoy hunting with the use of open sights.
I have my sites set so that the bead is cradled with in the V (total V depth same as diameter of bead) and the shot going where the bead is and NOT on top of the bead.
Shots easily within a tenis ball size off had at 60 m.

The flat sights are Patridge sights - square front , square notch ,1/8" . Excellent for handgun and rifle ! Sight in -6 o'clock hold on 2" bull.
Ghost ring peep , square front, 1/8" front, 1/8" to 3/16" rear.
Both of those work well for me .
Scope for + 100 yds. Pick what works for you !

quote:

Originally posted by mete:
The flat sights are Patridge sights - square front , square notch ,1/8" . Excellent for handgun and rifle ! Sight in -6 o'clock hold on 2" bull.
Ghost ring peep , square front, 1/8" front, 1/8" to 3/16" rear.
Both of those work well for me .
Scope for + 100 yds. Pick what works for you !

The Patridge sights you mention above were standard on the earlier Merkel double rifles and worked as you describe.

On some of the later Merkels the back sight was filed into a shallow "V" and a bead added to the front sight. In this case it was found early that if the bead was placed deep in "V" the rifle would shoot high. In this case the top of the bead needed to be level with the top of the wide "V" to shoot on target at the range engraved on the standing rear sight. This is the reason I asked what brand and type of rifle we are discussing. If the rifle is one of the Merkels made in the transition period between the shoe lump and mono-block Merkels then this is the problem, and the top of the bead needs to be level with the tp of the ears of the wide "V" to print properly!

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I think your question has been well answered above so I want to add a tangent suggestion: You can get the sight picture your used to on a rifle by changing front sight and filing your V into a Notch. If reading this you suddenly had a rapid heart rate spasm thinking of you new rifle, then well, skip that and you were answered above about beads.
I have also fitted a square post front and added a Weaver based Peep rear and love that!
If you have eye problems, just add a bigger bead. the middle and top of any circle is the middle and top. The clearer you can see it, the better chance your brain has of doing the right thing with the information. Big beads are no problem for longer range game shooting. None. Just have to get used to them. As mentioned above, the larger bead fills up the V and sort of gives you what your used to. Level the tops and press the trigger. The older I get the bigger my front sight gets. Still shooting game at 250 yards or so no problem.
Good hunting!!

The saying, in old time gunmakers' writings was 'the bead, the whole bead and ing but the bead'. That is you should ALWAYS as a sight picture see all of the bead and not see it like a 'rising' sun but a 'risen' sun.

Personally I think a Partridge type is best. Think as on British 303 SMLE or No4 Lee Enfield. Problem with a bead, that is a Tue bead not s Partridge with a rounded top... is that it shoots away from any strong light source. A high strong sun makes a bead shoot to a different point of impact from on a dull day with no sun.

Pretty sure this is a drawing from W.D.M. Bell's book WANDERINGS OF AN ELEPHANT HUNTER.

This is a pistol sight but it illustrates what you will see with a shallow V sight.

Most common hold is to cover the aiming point with the bead. Some people set up their sights to hold the bead under the aiming point.

The shallow v configuration allows a quick sight picture that allows you to see more of the animal than a Patridge sight would allow.

Your eye should focus on the bead. The target and the rear sight will be blurred. Unless you are an old fart like me and then everything is blurred. I have to squint real hard to get the bead in focus.

If you want the best this is it.The only problem is that I doubt you will ever get a rifle from the manufacturer or custom gunmaker with a long distance leaf like the one below set for a bullseye POI.IMO,the v's are prefered because one can file them down to meet your rifles POI.
[URL= ]Ruger rear leaf[/URL]
You need to easily see your whole target as a reference point so you can place the bead in the right spot.With any V you are covering your target and making it difficult to distinguish the spot on the animal you want to aim at.Whoever designed the Ruger rear express sight knew what he was doing.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
If you want the best this is it.The only problem is that I doubt you will ever get a rifle from the manufacturer or custom gunmaker with a long distance leaf like the one below set for a bullseye POI.IMO,the v's are prefered because one can file them down to meet your rifles POI.
[URL= ]Ruger rear leaf[/URL]
You need to easily see your whole target as a reference point so you can place the bead in the right spot.With any V you are covering your target and making it difficult to distinguish the spot on the animal you want to aim at.Whoever designed the Ruger rear express sight knew what he was doing.

Well gentlemen I must say I have to agree with SHOOTER on this one! The after market set-up on the Ruger No1 is very well designed for use on a dangerous game rifle!

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I can't believe I didn't think of this in the first place.

Spotted this example of bead sight use the other evening. I think this is pretty much how a bead and shallow V sight should be used




Just kidding

^Proof god likes dangerous game hunters.

That's the way it should look. IMHO.