Crazy,

quote:

Now with that totally useless information out of the way, what is wrong with the concept that if legal, and a person chooses to do so and can live with their choice, what difference does it make to anyone else.

It is interesting that your personal observation is worth more than 40+ years of wildlife research that shows the direct opposite!

465H&H

I can honestly say I did both but, didn't feel quite right shooting from the truck. It wasn't for lack of effort during the failed stalks but, took the order form the PH when he asked if I could take the shot (from the truck). I do feel better not shooting a monster Waterbuck (somewhere in the 32" range) from the truck. We came across a group of Waterbuck and Zebra together. The PH saw two Waterbuck bulls and was questioning which one but, there was no doubt about which one to take. We got out of the truck and tried stalking back towards them. Unfortunately the Zebras spooked which frightened the Waterbuck. I was able to spot some cows but we never saw the bulls eventually they took off. I never would have felt right shooting something that big without getting on the ground (personal opinion). Fortunately, we did get my Waterbuck and I couldn't be happier with the way we got it. Last day, last hour and nearly down to the last minute with a good stalk. Granted it wasn't the monster we saw 5 days earlier but you couldn't ask to end a safari on a better note.

A blind does not drive around looking for game. Big difference.

If it wasn't a lot easier for old, unhealthy or unfit hunters to shoot animals from a bakkie, they would be walking instead.

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
I saw a show yesterday, I think Northwestern Hunter. They were shoot from the back of the bakkie and it got me thinking about the long discussions on here about the subject.

What is the difference of shooting from the back of the bakkie and sitting in a box blind and shooting whitetails, or whitetails from a tree stand with a rest.

Depends. There can be a huge difference. In fact there can be a huge difference in just this: "...sitting in a box blind and shooting whitetails, or whitetails from a tree stand with a rest". Anyone would see a difference if they hunted whitetail with me for a week from a treestand or groundblind...getting up well before dawn; hiking in the dark up and down hills (with approx 35lbs on your back), thru swamps, wading beaver ponds, walking beaver dams, climbing 30ft up a tree; sitting quietly for 5 or 6hrs and staying alert while watching the sun break, watching the wood ducks drop into a slough, or watching a bobcat stalking silently over a frozen pond; climbing down and going back for lunch; then back to the stand until dark. Of course during the rut, I may not leave the stand from dark to dark. All the while observing wildlife that doesn't know you're in the world.

Try that every day for a week and you'll see a difference.

Dang! Now I'm fired up about deer hunting and I don't get to do that for at least two months - DOG GONE you guys!

quote:

It is interesting that your personal observation is worth more than 40+ years of wildlife research that shows the direct opposite!

Please provide your evidence on said wildlife research.

Also, while you are at it, Please notice I am not the only person who has stated this same basic concept:

quote:

what is wrong with the concept that if legal, and a person chooses to do so and can live with their choice, what difference does it make to anyone else.

I would really like to see the research evidence.

What has research got to do with this?

If it is allowed by the relevant authorities, and you wish to participate in it, that is your choice.

I never heard of anyone being forced to hunt in amanner he did not want to.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

It is interesting that your personal observation is worth more than 40+ years of wildlife research that shows the direct opposite!

Please provide your evidence on said wildlife research.

Also, while you are at it, Please notice I am not the only person who has stated this same basic concept:

quote:

what is wrong with the concept that if legal, and a person chooses to do so and can live with their choice, what difference does it make to anyone else.

I would really like to see the research evidence.

Crazy,

Sorry my friend but I don't have time to do your homework for you. A good place to start your research is to google upp elk research in the North West forests. You can also contact various US Forest Service EIS statements on road closures. Good luck!

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
What has research got to do with this?

If it is allowed by the relevant authorities, and you wish to participate in it, that is your choice.

I never heard of anyone being forced to hunt in amanner he did not want to.

Saeed,

Since most of the shooting from vehicles occurs on private game ranches in SA or Texas, I would guess that most land owners would be interested in the effects of such hunting practices on their game herds. I also think that most of us are interested in what effect our hunting methods haveon game populations.


465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
What has research got to do with this?

If it is allowed by the relevant authorities, and you wish to participate in it, that is your choice.

I never heard of anyone being forced to hunt in a manner he did not want to.

Saeed,

Since most of the shooting from vehicles occurs on private game ranches in SA or Texas, I would guess that most land owners would be interested in the effects of such hunting practices on their game herds. I also think that most of us are interested in what effect our hunting methods have on game populations.


465H&H

The law in Texas allows the hunting from a vehicle on PRIVATE LAND, since 90% of Texas’ 268,601 square miles is private land most of that private land is low fence crop farms, or cattle ranches NOT game farms. These farm and ranch owners make the rules for the people allowed to hunt on their property.

Most land owners will not let you stalk around the woods on their property because of the liability if someone gets shot by another hunter, or the hunter shoots from ground level it is a hazard too their livestock. From a high box stand or simple tree stand the shooter is shooting in a downward trajectory and is much safer for all concerned. So, the land owners usually assign you to a stand and all stands are far enough from the others so there is no danger of the hunters shooting each other! The only time I like sitting in a box stand is when the weather is extremely cold, and I can use a catalytic heater, because the rancher will drop you off at a couple hours before sunrise, and pick you up ten or eleven o’clock a night. That is a long time to sit still in the cold, and as Todd said most trophy bucks will not come close to a feeder except when the rutt is on, or late at night hours after legal shooting time is over.

If you want to have a chance of sighting a trophy buck, you need to do a lot of scouting and find deer scrapes and set up where you can see the scrape, or set up between two scrapes to ambush the buck visiting his scrape of traveling between the two. This takes a lot of knowledge of your quarry, and a lot of time spent in the field before the hunt even begins, if you are going to have a chance of success.

These laws are because Texas has a very strong history of not interfering with most things done on private land. On public land, which there is only about 10% of Texas, the only way you can hunt game animals from a vehicle if you are disabled. Most of these laws were formed way back in the 1920s by the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department.

Now most of the stand and blind hunting is done in the Eastern ½ of Texas where cover is so thick that in many places you can’t see 15 feet in any direction. So, one has to get above the brush to see anything.

In the Western ½ of Texas the ranches are normally thousands of acres in size and the country is mountainous, or canyon country where blinds are useless, and most of these ranches are so rough that very little of the land can be seen from a vehicle anyway, so the spot and stalk is the easiest way to success.

So what I’m taking the long way around the barn to say is many laws and methods of hunting are formulated because of conditions in their areas make it the only reasonable way. Hence the old saying, “ When in Rome, do as the Romans do!“ If you just use your mind in an open manner you will understand that if you are hunting in Utah the norm is not going to be the same as it is in Texas, or Oklahoma, or Zimbabwe, or Zambia and certainly not in RSA. Ethics are a product of where you learned from other in that same part of the world, and people in another part of the world will not have the same ETHICS! Ethics are a very personal thing, and only the laws determine the difference between those in one part of the world from another part of the world.

..................................................................................................................................................................

Mac37,

I agree with all that you have said but add that in many cases laws are derived from the ethics of what hunters in that country or state believe are fair ways to hunt.


465H&H

Please remember that Crazy lazy has never been to Africa or anywhere else that this is legal.
He once went to Colorado as a camp flunkie and earned no money because he screwed up everything
in camp up.Then he thought he was entitled to hunt for second season and the outfitter felt sorry for him because of his "retardation" and let him hunt for nothing with distarous results.
all the paying clients got shafted on their money because the "expert stood on the highest peak blowing on a bugle call and cow whistle as hard as possible in October well after the rut.Needless to say the hunters that laid down hard earned money saw nothing because of his antics.The hunters in the next drainage did very well because Crazy Lazy pushed the elk to them.Everyone over there has booked back hoping he will do his elk magic.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

It is interesting that your personal observation is worth more than 40+ years of wildlife research that shows the direct opposite!

Please provide your evidence on said wildlife research.

Also, while you are at it, Please notice I am not the only person who has stated this same basic concept:

quote:

what is wrong with the concept that if legal, and a person chooses to do so and can live with their choice, what difference does it make to anyone else.

I would really like to see the research evidence.

I wonder if the question was

"Is it OK to hunt dangerous game such as elephant, buffalo, lion from the back of a truck?"

Whether the same responses would be made?

If different, why?

Lazy shooters shot from a bakkie, hunters hunt on foot. JMO. Yes I have shot a couple of animals from a bakkie too. Once because a PH insisted. Another time just because ...

A good PH after we viewed a fine trophy which I didn't want, I said it would have been easy, later said he would have insisted on driving on and stalking back to hunt it. Good on him. IMO.