I read this on another forum and wondered what the expectations are on a cheap Leopard hunt? Is it mainly for a per chance thing if you see one or do they actually try and put some effort into them and try and get a cat? What would the succes rate be for a hunt like that where your mainly on a hunt for plainsgame and have a leopard tag?

"Hi Guys---Back from Namibia and have figured out that Leopard permits are actually for baiting hunters to come and spend their day rate and hunt plains game with the chance of getting a Leopard. It was near the start of the season and the permits are limited so there is no way they are going to let them go at the start of the seaon because they will draw more hunters until fall. We hunted with Karl Stumpfe at Ndumo Safaris on the Caprivi Strip and no effort was made to get the spotted cat. There is a bit of a dog and pony show but after 5 guys hunting for a week we came away with 1 non trophy Elephant and one Zebra. Just a note to beware if you are booking a hunt. We also spent a week on the west of Namibia with Savanah Safaris and Henk Fourie and bagged 21 nice plains game. There is some great hunting in Namibia but on these limited permits I think the chances of success are very poor unless it is near the end of the season and they are still available. If they tell you they are not transferable to another hunter they are full of it.---Good luck and good hunting---Greg"

Like with most things, you get what you pay for with African hunts.

If you are serious about a leopard, do your research, pick a "cat man" and pays your money. Otherwise you're setting yourself up for a wasted trip.

Forrest
Last year we had a hunter who shot a nice leopard while stalking a kudu. This is not common but it does happen. I had a leopard tag even though I was hunting lion. It was a just in case thing, in the event a leopard came to the bait while I was there. Leopard permits are not transferable. The permit has the hunters name on it. I didn't get a leopard which allowed Henk to get the permit in the later hunters name. If you happened to shoot a leopard and the permit didn't have your name on it, you would be in "big shit" as they say. On top of that it would not be allowed into the US. They are now requiring a copy of you passport with a copy of the page with date stamps showing you were actually "In Country" during the time the animal was taken. Permit date better match.

So if i understand this right you can pass a leopard tag onto the next guy if you are not successful? If that is the case I really wonder what success rates are realistic? When a guy says he is %75 percent success does that mean 3/4 hunters and hunts or 3/4 licenses and had 3 leopards taken after 10 guys hunted them.

It sounds like the guy above felt a little ripped off. I would say he didn't really realise what he was buying for a hunt. I have heard good things about Karl so I find it interesting this guy felt the way he did.

First, there is no such thing as a cheap leopard hunt. Yes, there are cheap hunts, but you will not likely get a leopard, especially if in an area not known for leopard hunting.

Second, yes, if an outfitter has limited leopard tags, he can sell hunts until the tags are used. Our dear friends in the lion business do this regularly. You, the hunter, do not own the tag, the safari operator does. He can sell it as ofter as he can until it is used. Same for lions and other animals.

quote:

It sounds like the guy above felt a little ripped off. I would say he didn't really realise what he was buying for a hunt

I guess that depends upon what type of hunt he was sold. If it was sold as a hunt with the Leopard being the primary animal and no real effort was made to hunt a Leopard I'd say he was ripped off regardless of what he paid.

On the other hand if it was sold as a plains game hunt with the possibility of shooting a Leopard if you got lucky and ran into one then it's an entirely different story. More details are needed.

I've hunted with Karl, and he's definitely one of the good guys. When hunting for Elephant culls, we would check for Leopard sign, and put up some animal tidbits to see if anything hit, as Karl had an available tag. But I would expect a pure Leopard hunt would be conducted much differently...shooting multiple bait animals, hanging numerous baits, checking them daily, dragging roads, etc. This sounds more like one of Karl's hunts for "own use" (cull for tribal meat) Elephant, rather than a Leopard hunt.

Forest Walker,

I think the point is if you really want a leopard you need to buy a hunt where the focus is the leopard. The chance of taking a leopard as a target of opportunity is very slim. Of course it does happen but with animals like leopards that have been pursued as vermin it is not likely. They are just too wary.

This is no reflection on the hunt you posted as I know nothing of the circumstances or what the clients actually bought.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
First, there is no such thing as a cheap leopard hunt. Yes, there are cheap hunts, but you will not likely get a leopard, especially if in an area not known for leopard hunting.

Second, yes, if an outfitter has limited leopard tags, he can sell hunts until the tags are used. Our dear friends in the lion business do this regularly. You, the hunter, do not own the tag, the safari operator does. He can sell it as ofter as he can until it is used. Same for lions and other animals.

Thanks for the info dogcat. It would be interesting to know the actual stats to a leopard hunt if multple hunters can hunt untill the tag is filled.

Phil,

If there are 5 leopards on quota in a given area and they kill 5 but it takes 7 hunters to do that the success rate is 71%. To interpret that any other way would be dishonest. Yes! If you do not kill your leoaprd this year Zambezi can resell it.

Mark

Kind of what I thought Mark and would think it was that way with all outfitters but i have had some say they were 100% which makes me ask the question. Either way no big deal as I feel pretty confident that I will be in good hands and will enjoy the hunt no matter the outcome. I am really looking forward tot he experience and learning how to hunt cats. It isn't too much longer now

quote:

Originally posted by Forest Walker:
I read this on another forum and wondered what the expectations are on a cheap Leopard hunt? Is it mainly for a per chance thing if you see one or do they actually try and put some effort into them and try and get a cat? What would the succes rate be for a hunt like that where your mainly on a hunt for plainsgame and have a leopard tag?

Cheap leopard hunt while hunting plains game?

Most cat hunts are dedicated cat hunts taking game of opportunity only after the cat is in the bag. Many here have gone out specifically for leopard and came home with the only trophy being the amazing memories of an African safari. Craig Boddington went on something like 6 safaris for a total of 58 days specifically hunting leopard before taking his first. Michael458 HATES leopard hunting for that reason.

Id say that its similar to the success rate for bear when specifically on a trophy whitetail hunt. You're out hunting deer and if you happen to get on a bear, count your blessings and shoot straight. Same with this description of a "cheap plains game hunt with a chance for a leopard".

quote:

Originally posted by Forest Walker:
"Hi Guys---Back from Namibia and have figured out that Leopard permits are actually for baiting hunters to come and spend their day rate and hunt plains game with the chance of getting a Leopard. It was near the start of the season and the permits are limited so there is no way they are going to let them go at the start of the seaon because they will draw more hunters until fall. We hunted with Karl Stumpfe at Ndumo Safaris on the Caprivi Strip and no effort was made to get the spotted cat. There is a bit of a dog and pony show but after 5 guys hunting for a week we came away with 1 non trophy Elephant and one Zebra. Just a note to beware if you are booking a hunt. We also spent a week on the west of Namibia with Savanah Safaris and Henk Fourie and bagged 21 nice plains game. There is some great hunting in Namibia but on these limited permits I think the chances of success are very poor unless it is near the end of the season and they are still available. If they tell you they are not transferable to another hunter they are full of it.---Good luck and good hunting---Greg"

The question remains, what was the hunt they were supposed to be going on? Was this hunt with Karl in the Caprivi Strip a plains game hunt? Or a non-trophy elephant hunt? Or an elephant/leopard hunt with PG of opportunity? Or was this the trophy PG hunt with non-trophy elephant and leopard as opportunity might arise?

Was the PG hunt in West Namibia with Henk Fourie part of the same safari or did Greg and crew go home and return for that safari?

Lots of questions raised by the aspersions cast.

I will give you a cheap leopard hunt for a premium animal. We will bait for 14 days $10,000 + trophy fee. But guess what? Closest leopards 300 miles away.

Mike

Cheap cologne. Cheap suit. Cheap shot. Cheap date. Cheap skate. Cheap motel.

Get it?

quote:

Originally posted by safari-lawyer:
Cheap cologne. Cheap suit. Cheap shot. Cheap date. Cheap skate. Cheap motel.

Get it?

Hey Will, Cheap Trick was pretty good ....

Our new rules in Limpopo cleaned up our Leopard hunting a bit.

Marketing right issued to the outfitter who got drawn in December. Max two tags per company. Client pays deposit and sign agreement. Outfitter now buys Leopard tag "over the counter" for client, in his name.

Outfitter cannot get another tag. Tag is not transferable. so you as a client know that your outfitter have only you, and you are his only chance of getitng that cat for his season.

For serious outfits that is huge incentive to kill their Leopards.

Well I look at this line; "five guys hunting a week", and can't believe an outfitter with Karl's reputation could have possibly booked five hunters on a seven day leopard hunt. I think the guy is confusing an opportunity arising during a hunt because a tag was available with a leopard hunt.

Don

I believe in Namibia you have to have your name on the permit 7 days in advance of your arrival.

It seems to me that the guy didn't know what to expect on the hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by Forest Walker:
It seems to me that the guy didn't know what to expect on the hunt.

I sure didn't when I went on one, as I naively did not realize that one had to shoot several game animals to put up as bait, each for a separate fee. It went over budget, to say the least.

That was in the Kafue in Zambia, and while I did not tag the leopard, my PH John Knowles did set it up perfectly, with baits, blind, tree against the setting sun, him with his 10 ga. semi-auto Mossberg in the blind with us. An experience of a lifetime. No complaints whatever.

Oh, yes, the leopard unexpectedly came up to investigate the blind, within about a yard directly behind our backs. In the dark, puffing. A breeze had come up and was threatening to blow the back door open. I thought John was going to have a heart attack.

But then, that was a while ago. You don't want to hear old stories like that.

As quoted by Infinito with regards to Limpopo:

"Outfitter cannot get another tag. Tag is not transferable. so you as a client know that your outfitter have only you, and you are his only chance of getting that cat for his season".

Tanzania has 'X' Leopards on quota and these are allocated to the various outfitters; some get 1 or 2 more while others get less depending on the area and past performance.
If the client who has Leopard on license fails to shoot one it means the "tag" is still valid and is available to another client until it lands up in the salt.

Let me put some of Greg's comments in perspective:
This group hunted with me the whole way, we hunted in Henks concession for plains game, where they saw 1 leopard during day time, and we had 2 other cats feeding (females ) in 6 days. I was doing the baiting as best as I could, but this group was a big group with a hell of a "wishlist", making a dediacted leopard hunt impossible!!!! And they came during the worst time imaginable, very early in the year.

Brian1, interesting that you quoted the leopard that one of "your" clients shot during daytime and on a kudu stalk. Do you know who the PH was? Or the client?

Further, they (Greg's group) wanted 2 buff and an non export elephant. If one of the group did not pull one Ph for himself to spend all the time on a croc hunt, we would have gotten all that also. We ended with 2 elephant and a lost buff.
Maybe you should book directly with a Namibian outfitter next time, Greg, and not go through a RSA guy, who by the way still owes me money? And maybe I should not have lost my cool and said anything, but I get really peeved if someone gets the facts skew....

Karl, sounds like a "Larry and David" hunt. I'll send more meds ASAP :-)

Yes Karl I know you were the PH and it was actually your client, well sort of. I was making the point that you were not getting a fair accessment here. I think you know I'm on your side on this issue.

quote:

Originally posted by Karl S:
Let me put some of Greg's comments in perspective:
This group hunted with me the whole way, we hunted in Henks concession for plains game, where they saw 1 leopard during day time, and we had 2 other cats feeding (females ) in 6 days. I was doing the baiting as best as I could, but this group was a big group with a hell of a "wishlist", making a dediacted leopard hunt impossible!!!! And they came during the worst time imaginable, very early in the year.

Brian1, interesting that you quoted the leopard that one of "your" clients shot during daytime and on a kudu stalk. Do you know who the PH was? Or the client?

Further, they (Greg's group) wanted 2 buff and an non export elephant. If one of the group did not pull one Ph for himself to spend all the time on a croc hunt, we would have gotten all that also. We ended with 2 elephant and a lost buff.
Maybe you should book directly with a Namibian outfitter next time, Greg, and not go through a RSA guy, who by the way still owes me money? And maybe I should not have lost my cool and said anything, but I get really peeved if someone gets the facts skew....

Pretty sure those in the know put little "cred" into Greg's claims.

I sure as hell didn't and I don't know shit.

And Greg, you where not even one of the guys for which we did take out a permit, so why the cheap shot?

quote:

Originally posted by Brain1:
Yes Karl I know you were the PH and it was actually your client, well sort of. I was making the point that you were not getting a fair accessment here. I think you know I'm on your side on this issue.

Thanks Brian, sorry if my comment seems snotty, I am just a bit peeved at this guy!

So given that they got 21 plains game, 2 elephant, saw a leopard and had some on bait, what is Greg complaining about?

Pretty good success rate for hunting as nearly all of us define the concept.

Karl
Can you arrange we feed Henk to the hyenas?

Er...Karl....maybe you missed the very first part of that first post that said "I saw this on another forum...."

It isn't Greg posting here, Greg posted on another forum, the OP saw it, copied and pasted here, and asked a question.

quote:

Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
Er...Karl....maybe you missed the very first part of that first post that said "I saw this on another forum...."

It isn't Greg posting here, Greg posted on another forum, the OP saw it, copied and pasted here, and asked a question.

Thanks Mile high. Yes I am not Greg or even know him. I just saw the thread started on another forum and had a couple questions and did not want to start a big thing here.
If you want the place I found it then here it is. http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca...wthread.php?t=132211

Mile High and Forest walker, i was totally aware that FW is not Greg. I just posted it as I knew it would have been copied to the original website.

If you don't have a great hunt with Karl, I would suspect the hunter is inexperienced, had unrealistic expectations, or is one of the types who would win the lottery, only to complain about the taxes owed. It is hunting, isn't it? If you want an easy, sure thing, stick to the F'ing game ranches.

Karl:

You can take me leopard hunting anytime. Just so we understand each other, however, I recognize the obvious: there ain't no such thing as a cheap leopard hunt (value yes, cheap, no).

One major caveat: I want to be the only hunter in camp (seems like that was a major issue in this case, not caused by you). You can hunt or you can socialize, but if you choose to do both, well ...