I have been seeing alot of posts lately about how much better a rifle in the $2000 to $9000 range are than top of the line factory rifles like Sako, Kimber and the like. So I was wondering, does anyone know what the average PH in Africa uses for a rifle seeing as he is one of the few hunters that can honestly say that litterally every day while in the field his life depends on the dependability and accuracy of his rifle. I know the double rifles cost a great deel, but what about the bolt action rifles used by most PHs? Does anyone know what percentage use high $$$ custom rifles as compaired to say a Mauser factory made rifle.

Maybe Im asking a dumb question in that if a person can afford $9000 for a rifle HE is the one HIRING the PH insted of being the PH.

I would say that unless someone gave a PH a "high-dollar" rifle as yo describe the chance they would own one would be very small. What you typically see will be either Model 70's or converted Mausers...many of which are outstanding pieces of "working" art but certainly not tricked out. They are sufficiently accurate for the job at hand and they work every time.

I've seen a variety of working rifles, sometimes what they happen to have.

I've seen Weatherbys, Sauers, a Remington 721 and a 700, Mausers, and Harris Talon. The latter was with a real-deal dangerous game PH. Calibers have been two 240 Weatherbys, a 7x64, 30-06, 300 Win Mag, 378 Wthby, 416 Rem Mag, and 460 Weatherby.

All scopes were of good quality; Leupold or Zeiss.

The outfitter and 3 PH's where I hunted last year have 2-22LR, a 223, 243, 2-270, a suppressed 30-06, 9.3x62, 2-300's, 338, and one 375. Some are factory, and some are custom they received from clients. They do not hunt DG, but sure have everything covered below that.

DG PHs usually have a 375 or larger in a Win. pre 64, or a good Mauser rifle of English make, and a few have double rifles..Most of them have very nice rifles and most were given to them in the form or gratitude..A few have Rem 700s in 375 and 416, and that's because no one has gifted them for whatever reason!! :boohoo The 375, 458 Win and 416 Rem are popular in the DG countries, with a scattering of others..Today more PHs are caliber conscious than they used to be and I see a more interresting number of rifles in there hands today...Pierre van Tonder shoots a 375 pre 64, 500 Jefferys, 416 Rem, Richard Lemmer shoots a 458 Lott, Johann Calitz shoots a 470 Searcy, Paul Zorn shoots a 416 Rigby Westley Richards, Barry van Heerden shoots a English .470, his dad has a closet full of nice doubles that he bought when they were bring $500 apiece and he was elephant hunting for a living, AJ van Heerden shoots a 416 Rem 700 since I sold his 577 double for him about a year ago, My old amigo George Hoffman used the 416 Hoffman, the forrunner to the 416 Rem, My other past away PH friend Finn Aagaard used a 375 Win. M-70 and a WR 458, he also had a Win 458 as I recall, My friend Mark Selby uses a 450-400 that Robt Rourke gave him, and his father Harry Selby used a .416 Rigby and a 375...Harry Manners always used a 375 for the most part, Hannes Swanepoel uses eary CZ 375s to cull elephants, Philip Price likes a 243 Sako for everything up to and including Eland, and a 375 for buffalo, Cotton Gordon used a 375 most of the time, I have noticed the 300 H&H, 9.3x62 have a good following in Zimbabwe, Ian Mannings son shoots a 375 and so does Ian as I recall..

The better PHs have a room full of nice gifted guns...

In RSA, I have seen many mausers, Sakos, Remingtons, PHs are abundant in RSA to say the least, about every farmer has a PH license for plainsgame as that is part or all of his income. The 7x57,.270, 300 H&H, 30-06 and .308 are all popular in RSA and Zimbabwe..

As you can see the pros are as diversafied as we are, also as opinnionated as we are, and most go with the available calibers just like we do..Pros are not into wildcats as much as we are, and wildcatting is not practical in Africa, nor are wildcats for most..The only wildcatter PH I know is Roy Vicent, a true gun nut, and a bit of that has rubbed off on his son, Alan vicent also a PH. Richard Lemmer leans that direction but being a RSA resident keeps him calmed down in the wildcat world!

That pretty much covers it, Dad!

I've seen mostly 458's, 470's and 416's. Cartridges that are generally available. Usually nothing very fancy brand wise.

The most common rifle we see in Zim are the CZ's. Mostly converted to .458 Lott. Once a PH earns some money he invarably tries to get something better, or at least get the rifle tricked out with all the "extra's" he deems essential.

With the current wave of restrictions comming in on the "maximum" numbers of firearms even a PH may own, I suspect many guys are going to be gerring rid of their surpluss and rubbish.

In Zimbabwe most of the PH'S ive met use the following,9.3x62,375,404,416RIG,458WIN,458WATTS,458LOTT and 470.In Rifles like Bruno,Winchester,Coggswell&Harris and Ruger. Adam.

.45-70 Single Shot!!!!!

Small calibres: .243, .270, .308
Medium: 30-06, 300 Win Mag, 300 H+H
Large calibres: 375, .470, and the general procedure: 458 Win Mag opened to 458 Lott.

The make does not really matter, as long as the thing shoots.

The ones I've been around have had 375 H&H's(2 Winchesters), 458 Win(BSA), 470 Double, 416 Rem(Win), 375 H&H(Sako), 7 MM Rem(Ruger), 30-06(Browning).

Glen Munger who I hunted with in Botswana used a Brno in 458 WM. I assume that he has had it converted to 458 LOTT as that was his plan last time I hunted with him.

TerryR

I would say what Ray says is about right for today! I would say 20 yrs ago the most common rifle in Africa was a BERNO 602, in 375 H&H, or 458 Win Mag. Next would be the Pre 64 Mod 70, in the same chamberings! There were, and still are many old Mausers chambered for 9.3X62, and most of all these rifles were iron sighted. The existance of a double rifle of any chambering was not common in Africa back then. All these choices were simply because that is what was available, both rifle , and ammo.

Today, you will see almost anything in the hands of PHs in RSA,a lot of Sakos, and Remingtons, in calibers up to 338 Win Mag, and occasional 375 H&H as a rule. In the big game areas, however, like Tanzania, Botswana, zambia, and Zimbabwe, you will see, not only larger chamberings, but more reliable rifles as well, like the Mausers, P-64 Mod 70s,BRNOs and in the heavy elephant, and buffalo concessions, you will see a lot more doubles today, most chambered for 470NE, or 500NE. The rifles may not seem like much at first glance, but will work "EVERY TIME", though they may look like an old water pipe on the outside! In the heavy game areas,it is not uncommon to see duct tape, and rawhide patches on the stocks, and no blueing at all, but you can bet the PH can shoot that old beat up rifle when he needs to!

However, in the hands of client hunters, one never knows what will come slideing out of the soft case at check-in!

It seems to me that the many PH's I ahve worked with an met over the years have really started a trend towards the 458Lott. It's everything the 458 win mag is and more. It's also an easy round to find componenets for and you can use 458 win mag ammo if needed.

I know about a dozen PH's now that have had thier 458 win mags rechanmbered for the Lott. The majority of guns are Mausers or CRF model 70's. The most highly desired is the Model 70 as it's reputation is so good and the gun can be made a fair bit lighter. I can't even count how many PH's have asked me to bring them a Model 70 action as I travel back and forth.

Because of this strong trend towards the Lott over the last 10 years I too have had a 458 Lott built and it is about all you could ask for in a backup rifle. Many of my hunters shoot it when they are over to visit. Almost all express surprize at how easy it is to shoot and how mild the recoil is.

Most of that is the magic of John Ricks who helped me to build the stock to match a fine over and under shotgun, ot english double rifle.

quote:

Many of my hunters shoot it when they are over to visit. Almost all express surprize at how easy it is to shoot and how mild the recoil is.

I can verify that it is indeed a pussycat to shoot. Ricks did a great job on JJ's rifle.

Cheers,
Canuck

The guy I hunt with the most has used a Musgrave in .416 rigby for many years.I always gave him shit about his image with his old bolt gun.Two years ago he bought a Heym Double in .500 N.E..The double last I heard was still sitting in the police station.

The few PH I have hunted with carried a Remington 30-06, a Musgrave 30-06, a Pedersoli Kodiak in 450 NE #2, a Ruger No.1 in 470, a Winchester M-70 in 30-06, a Cogswell 9.3 X 62, a FN 9.3 X 62, a 458 Whitworth, a Winchster M-70 404 J, a Weatherby 416 Weatherby and a CZ 458 Lott. All rifles were well used, but functioned perfectly.

Perry

Get Boddington's Safari Rifles. He discusses this subject at great length.

I used to join many young PH´s and had with me many apprentices. They didn´t have an opportunity to get a gift or make too much money as Ray´s examples did.
So this generation of PH´s is equipped mostly with CZ (Bruno) and some Ruger or Winchester 70. The calibers preferred are increasingly .458 Lott, some .416 Rigby or Rem.

One of the guns I am seeing more and more of in the hands of PH's is the Ruger RSM African Bolt rifles in .416 Rigby and now in the .458 Lott since it has come out. Relatively inexpensive and durable in hard-hitting calibers are the comments I hear on them. I have seen very few PH's carry high dollar custom BA rifles and ( though most of them would like one} double rifles because of the cost.

My first PH used a .460 Weatherby with a muzzle break! He fired a backing shot on my first buffalo hunt from about five feet to my right and three feet behind me...if that tells you anything. Even if he would have apologized, I could not have heard him. Three other PH's I have been with used a .416, a .458 Lott and one had a .470. The PH I hunted with in the Selous in '03 used a .416 but just bought a new .470 when he was here in the US this spring.

Bull1

The only two rifles I've seen my PH carry was a Musgrave .30-06 and a Remington 700 in .416 RM.

470 Doubles, 450's in CZ, other actions, Win 70 in .375, but never Rem or Wea. All rifles worked well in the field.

Dak

In '92 I met 10 PH's while in Tanzania. They had many rifles between them but 8 of the 10 now carried a 40 calibler something. Mostly .416 Rem. Mags.

Vaughan Fulton carries a battle scarred .458 Winchester Mag in Namibia. My friend Allen Hallet in RSA carries a Pre 64 Model 70 in .338 Win Mag. The young Harry Fourie in RSA carries a 7 X 57 for plains game, and a .375 H&H for bigger stuff.