A couple questions for experienced DG hunters.

I sometimes read that hunter goes with double and has scoped rifle as backup rifle. I don't understand the sense of such way. I think it should be otherwise - scoped rifle in hands, double with tracker for backup. What do I miss?

After my first buff hunt I'm in love with 375 Actually we did not have much opportunities to use double rifle in that area. But I am going to take .375 and .500 for my next hunt. Does it make sense to have backup double rifle? Maybe it makes sense to have double just for fun close shots if there will be an opportunity?

Roman,

To my mind it would depend on the terrain and cover. In heavy cover you might want to carry the double and have the scoped 375 for a longer shot on a buffalo, elephant, a big kudu or whatever you might encounter. If the cover is quite open you might want to carry the scoped rifle and have one of the crew carry the double. A scoped 375 or 416 in addition to the double is always my recommendation so that all situations you might encounter are covered.

Double rifle enthusiasts and proponents of getting so close to DG that you can smell their breath or your not hunting will probably poo-poo the utility of the scoped rifle in addition to the double on a DG hunt because to them a longer shot is not hunting. Everybody is entitled to their opinion but I like to be prepared for any eventuality. Taking both a double and scoped rifle on your hunt each day will handle anything you encounter. ORyou could just forget the double altogether.

Mark

Hunting Dangerous Game at scoped rifle distances? Why spend the money on DG instead of just shooting Impala? Same thrill but a hell of a lot cheaper.

For me, DG hunting is about getting close. For that, I prefer a double rifle. The concept of the "back up" rifle as used here isn't what you'd normally think, as in the PH "backing you up". Rather, it's simply another rifle brought along as a back up if something happens to the primary DG weapon.

Well, that and the possibility of shooting a few Impala at range!

YMMV, but that's what my money buys on my hunts!

Not owning a double, I had the pleasure of hunting with Richie Tabor of CMS recently. I have been reducated. Richie likes to take their temprature first. Now looking into a VC 500 NE.

Jeff

Todd,

I knew this would draw you out.

Mark

Hey Mark,

I felt like you were speaking directly to me!

I leave in a week and will be taking a scoped rifle (.375 Ruger) and a double (Verney Carron .470). I intend to carry the scoped rifle in more open areas and the double in the thick stuff. Two different tools for two different hunting environments.

quote:

Originally posted by Roman BGH:
A couple questions for experienced DG hunters.

I sometimes read that hunter goes with double and has scoped rifle as backup rifle. I don't understand the sense of such way. I think it should be otherwise - scoped rifle in hands, double with tracker for backup. What do I miss?

After my first buff hunt I'm in love with 375 Actually we did not have much opportunities to use double rifle in that area. But I am going to take .375 and .500 for my next hunt. Does it make sense to have backup double rifle? Maybe it makes sense to have double just for fun close shots if there will be an opportunity?

For more than 20 years i hunt each year in Africa . There is the theory and there is the practice !

A back up rifle is a rifle for your PH or similar in case of emergency , no matter what happened , wrong shooting or attack of a wounded animal .

Today for hunting DG the best that you can use is a scoped bolt action rifle . No problem for shooting at short or long range and a better shot placement especially in heavy cover .

A DR is a obsolete rifle just for fun ! You have to adapt your hunting action to your rifle , short range and open areas , no shooting in the evening or the night , ---hunting conditions of the 19. century !

Or you can just carry two doubles - one with open sights and one scoped.

quote:

Originally posted by Antlers:
Or you can just carry two doubles - one with open sights and one scoped.

That's exactly my safari battery now days. An open sighted 500NE and a scoped 9.3x74R. No restrictions on short range and open areas and no restrictions on shooting in the evening or night where allowed. All with a double rifle!

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Roman,

To my mind it would depend on the terrain and cover. In heavy cover you might want to carry the double and have the scoped 375 for a longer shot on a buffalo, elephant, a big kudu or whatever you might encounter. If the cover is quite open you might want to carry the scoped rifle and have one of the crew carry the double. A scoped 375 or 416 in addition to the double is always my recommendation so that all situations you might encounter are covered.

Double rifle enthusiasts and proponents of getting so close to DG that you can smell their breath or your not hunting will probably poo-poo the utility of the scoped rifle in addition to the double on a DG hunt because to them a longer shot is not hunting. Everybody is entitled to their opinion but I like to be prepared for any eventuality. Taking both a double and scoped rifle on your hunt each day will handle anything you encounter. ORyou could just forget the double altogether.


Mark

or you could just leave them both at home and use a camp rifle!

The reality is that neither a double rifle nor a bolt action rifle are the best choice for all applications. Each type of rifle has its advantages (and disadvantages) depending on the hunting circumstances. That is the best case for why taking both makes sense.

My second trip to Africa (RSA) I took two doubles.

An open sighted 470, and a scoped 9,3x74R.

Jerry,

I should change careers and become a psychic. I just knew you would advocative bringing no guns as well as I knew Todd would choose using doubles only. Damn! I am good.

Mark

Roland, where hunting in Africa for dangerous game today is concerned, Todd and others are correct in many ways as far as to the purpose of a so called "BACKUP RIFLE"! This doesn't just apply the pair with a double rifle, and a single barreled rifle with a scope. In this case the back up rifle is usually a bolt rifle with a variable scope, many times illuminated.

The back up rifle is mainly to take plains game, but are usually chambered for a caliber that would be legal to finish the dangerous game hunt if something happened to the double rifle. In most cases the bolt rifle would be properly fitted with good iron sights, and the scope mounted in quality quick detachable rings that return to zero if removed to go into the weeds with a buffalo and replaced on the rifle after. This was my first back up system I ever used, and still have the rifles, though my back up is different today.

This brings me to what I consider the best set up for a double rifle enthusiast. The back up rifle being a smaller double rifle, with a low powered variable scope (illuminated) in quick detach rings and bases, that works fine for the cats, and plains game with the scope attached, and again with a chambering that can be used on buffalo or elephant if needed, My choice would be a 375H&H flanged double along with a 450NE to 500NE double rifle for the main DGR. The large double can also be fitted with a red-dot like the Docter Optic sight, as well.

Originally the back up rifle for a double rifle would be another double rifle of the same chambering! The reason for that is most who used a back up rifle were elephant ivory hunters who wanted to take as many elephants as possible before they fled the country. They got in close to take short shots that for one shot one kill. One double would be used till empty, and would be traded to a gun barer for one that was loaded, to use while the gun barer reloaded the first one and so on till the shooting stopped.

The use of double rifle in Africa today is a simple return to history as a reason some choose to use these traditional hunting rifles for African hunting of things like Cape buffalo, and elephant. Though there are plenty of very suitable bolt rifle designed for that purpose, I believe there is not a better designed firearm for the hunting of those particular animals in the tight bush than a properly chambered double rifle! But they are also perfectly capable of longer range shooting as well, when regulated and sighted properly!

When we get it boiled down to what is the best that is the one you shoot the best for YOUR way of hunting! Like Todd I like getting in close, and my choice is always a suitably chambered double rifle!

.............................................................. .......

now that Johnny Carson is dead, maybe you can take his place as Karnak the Magnificent. for those younger members, asks your parents who he was.

For me, hunting DG is all about getting in close. If possible inside 30 yards. The Double is perfect for that. The second rifle is for other opportunities. However I bring a 375 just in case.

Bob

Jerry,

I would never presume to be on par with Karnak.

Mark

A proper back-up would be an identical rifle in the same caliber----

but RSA wont let Us bring in two of the same-

Matched doubles

or

Identical bolts--

SSR

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Jerry,

I would never presume to be on par with Karnak.

Mark

Mark, i figured you were old enough to remember Karnak! BUT DO YOU FIND THE ANSWER TO ALL LIFE'S QUESTIONS IN A MAYONAISE JAR??

Thanks all for detailed answers!

As I understand there are DR enthusiasts which prefer to use DR anyway (or at least as the main rifle). There are other hunters which use that rifle which is more useful in the circumstances.

And nobody use DR as backup rifle, meaning covering if something goes wrong

I like DR and I use it a lot in Russia. But in Africa I can not waste my time (short and very expensive) to lose opportunities which are beyond DR distance. Or I will come to that way of hunting later?

quote:

Originally posted by Roman BGH:
Thanks all for detailed answers!

As I understand there are DR enthusiasts which prefer to use DR anyway (or at least as the main rifle). There are other hunters which use that rifle which is more useful in the circumstances.

And nobody use DR as backup rifle, meaning covering if something goes wrong

I like DR and I use it a lot in Russia. But in Africa I can not waste my time (short and very expensive) to lose opportunities which are beyond DR distance. Or I will come to that way of hunting later?

Roman, there is no right way for everyone, and what ever works best for you, is what you should do!

Good to hear from you! It has been a while.
....................................................................

Sean,

Actually if you jump through the right hoops you can bring two rifles of the same caliber into RSA. You need a letter stating that the second rifle is a "back up". Christy with Gracy Travel is the gun issues person with Gracy and can make it happen.

Mark

Spent an anxious hour in RSA guncontrol office several years ago when I took a 375H&H bolt gun and a 375H&H Heym. Actually didn't realize the same caliber rule existed. They finally let me thru since I was hunting in Zimbabwe and the guns would be checked straight thru on my return flight. The permit was actually just for 24 hours and so marked. I hoped to hunt Buffalo with the double and all else with the bolt gun. Actually never used the double. I always carried a backup rifle which to me always meant a backup to a failure of my primary rifle. Once when I went straight to Zim with no overnite in RSA I carried 2 Model70's in 375H&H which was perfect for me. Last year I went though I carried a 416Rigby and a 7x57 as I only expected to take a trophy elephant . I ended up shooting camp meat and some animals for the local tribe with the 7x57. Incidentally I got my trophy elephant. Around 50 lbs and I'm looking at the tusks on the coffee table as I type.

On all my hunts I have taken two doubles, my 450 No2, and my 9,3x74R double with a scope in QD mounts. On one hunt where the wife went she took the scoped 450/400 3 1/4", and I used it on that trip as well.

My reasons are, I love to hunt with double rifles. And if for any reason my big bore double breaks, the 9,3 can take its place. I have killed cape buff, and elephant with the 9,3, one shot each.
I have found the 9,3x74R double to be a most excellent plains game rifle, and it "ain't" bad on bigger game like giraffe, cape buff, and elephant either...

On a recent hunt in Zim my primary rifle for Leopard and Klipspringer was a scoped Dakota 375 H&H and my primary rifle for all else was my Heym 450/400 double with iron sights. Shot the leopard, a couple of zebra, and Klippy with the 375. I took 20 other animals with the double rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Sean,

Actually if you jump through the right hoops you can bring two rifles of the same caliber into RSA. You need a letter stating that the second rifle is a "back up". Christy with Gracy Travel is the gun issues person with Gracy and can make it happen.

Mark

Mark

Thanks very much for the info-definitelyn something to look into.



SSR