SCI is now supposedly posting the latest information regarding the new fee increase in Tanzania. The website is: www.tanzaniahunt.org (I'm not sure that it is as good as Bwanamich's info though.)

John

John,

This is the same info that SCI has had posted for several days now. It has not been updated recently. I am due to leave for Tanzania on Sept 2, and my wife and JudgeG are to fly over and meet me on Sept 11, but I may cancel the whole thing if something isn't decided by the end of the week. I don't want to risk being in camp and having to pay out the ass without knowing it. I have informed my outfitter that I want to start exploring other options. I may end up trying to go to RSA on another plains game hunt. At least the prices there are stable for now anyway. Hope you are doing well.

Dale

Dale- It's the shits! SBT and I now have to look for alternatives if these increases really occur. I know you guys will have a blast no matter where you go. Have you heard anything from Pierre?

John

John,

I haven't heard from Pierr'e directly, but am in contact via e-mail with his wife, who is doing her level best to keep us informed. Nobody really knows how this is going to play out, but if an injunction is filed and the court rules that the government has to vacate the fee increase for this year, all is well and good. However, if the cour rules against the injunction, then the fee increases will immediately be collectible and required. My worry is being in the bush without knowing for sure, and all of a sudden owing the government of Tanzania a lot more money than I have. My wife will be very dissapointed because this was to be her first trip to Africa. I will take her if I go to RSA, but the more I think about it the more I am tempted just to cancel the whole Africa idea, and ask for a refund. I could take that money and go on a cruise. Looking at girls in thong bikinis on a cruise ship is almost as much fun as hunting. Almost.

Dale

quote:

Originally posted by 1115:
I could take that money and go on a cruise. Looking at girls in thong bikinis on a cruise ship is almost as much fun as hunting. Almost.
Dale

Now I gotta book a cruise. It never ends. At least I hope it doesn't. Ain't it grand?

Brian

Trophy fees may be cheaper with the girls?

quote:

Trophy fees may be cheaper with the girls?

NOT IN THE LONG RUN!!!!! TRUST ME!!!!!

quote:

Looking at girls in thong bikinis on a cruise ship is almost as much fun as hunting.

Blasphamy!!!!

Hey!!!!! I said almost !!!!!!!!!!!!

1115,

If they do change the fees here an idea ! Hunt somewhere cheaper and for the extra money you would have spent hire two of those nice bikini girls.

Seriously, I hope they dont pull it off there is so many people that would be effected and some of them that would end their dream adrubt.

quote:

Originally posted by 1115:

quote:

Trophy fees may be cheaper with the girls?

NOT IN THE LONG RUN!!!!! TRUST ME!!!!!

Trust me, they ARE jorge

Jorge,

The problem with the girls vs the trophies is this. Once you mount a trophy, all you have to do is look at it. Mount a woman and see what happens.

Exactly. Does the term "high maintenance" ring a bell? jorge

Some of you may loose a dream safari but not your sense of humor

The trophy fees, other than a few obvious ones are not too bad. The cats and elephant are prohibitive under the current license constraints! The 2nd and 3rd buffalo are too high for most of us.

If the Gov would lift some of the licensing constraints, outfitters could adjust their hunt durations accordingly to soften the impact of these increases. The block fees translate into a daily fee increase per client that is acceptable depending on the number of blocks and hunting days a particular outfitter has. It can be as little as under $100 per client per day to as much as $500 per client per day increase.

I suggest you plan with your outfitter and review your trophy priorities...

Once mounted they begat a whole new genre of spending. What with diapers, and bicycles, and college tuition. I never knew I would spend so much all because of trying to have a little fun.
Back to the thread, I am sure anxious to hear what next year will be. I am not able to put together a trip this year. D

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
I suggest you plan with your outfitter and review your trophy priorities...

What if the poor s.o.b. is in the middle of nowhere, putting in 20 hours a day, already trying to get his first clients a buffalo and has already spent a bunch of the deposit getting the camp ready and paying up-front fees.
There are some PH's that aren't sleeping very much right now, trying to figure who'll tote the extra costs, etc., God Bless them.

Personally, I'm fine, with no huge money at risk and have alternatives being planned, but not every PH is going to be able to swing refunds, etc...

I disagree with you a bit, Bwanamich. It's not the trophy fees that'll kill the PH's. It is the extra $50K for the concessions that will hurt most... that will add at least $5K to a buffalo hunt and make them three time more expensive than other countries before one even shoots a buffalo. Add the additional trophy fee and the increase is more than I paid for a Zimbabwe turn-key buffalo hunt in 2002. Amazing. Nookey is looking cheaper and cheaper.

I remember this March, a Zim PH bragging about making the big time, being hired by a Tanzanian organization and never again having to worry about the vagaries of Zimbabwe. I wonder how he feels now?

With fingers crossed for some sanity in the Tanzanian gov't...

JudgeG,
Every scenario is different.

Consider a one block operator that has already paid their $10,000 block fee in June based on the old rate. If their block is considered a Cat "B" block because it is not near a National Park or is not a Game Reserve, then he has $30,000 outstanding. Supposing he has a decent reputation and can manage 300 hunting days in a season, he will need to charge $100 per hunitng day extra to cover the outstanding block fee amount. This amount can generally be "absorbed" by a client. It means $1000 more on a 10 day buff hunt per client. That is not the end of the world.....

However, other operators will have a "Per hunting day additional cost" average of up to $500 or more and that is a problem for anyone.

Trophy fees are acceptable for most species because:
1- Many outfitters were charging a 10 - 20% Anti-poaching levy to the Gov fee, so the trophy fee you were quoted on (for arguments sake) included 10 - 20% already. If the outfitter, based on the current increases, agrees to NOT charge this 10 - 20% anti-poaching levy, then it makes things easier. that's one of the things I would do if I was an outfitter.
2- They are comparable to other African countries. Its the "other" fees and licensing restriction that are imposed on the outfitters that add up to make a Tanzanian safari no longer comparable!

Mich,

Thanks so much for sharing the straight information with us.

I have a cat safari booked for 2008. It it were you, how long would you wait before canceling and looking for a safari somewhere else??

Best regards;
Brett

Bwanamich:

300 hunting days? Isn't the Selous open for hunting only 6 months, and practically "huntable" only 2/3 of that. To get 300 hunting days, three hunters would need to be in a concession almost every "huntable day" and that's never going to be the case, IMHO. I still think that $500.00 @ day will be the necessary increase under the Gov't plan.

As to the "surcharge" on trophy fees, I wonder how much goes to anti-poaching in the Selous, since no one is really allowed therein from Jan. to July? The surcharge, that's what we call in the states "profit".... the juice that allows a PH's family to eat. If they "absorb" that, why stay in business.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:

As to the "surcharge" on trophy fees, I wonder how much goes to anti-poaching in the Selous, since no one is really allowed therein from Jan. to July? The surcharge, that's what we call in the states "profit".... the juice that allows a PH's family to eat. If they "absorb" that, why stay in business.

I know that there is not a surcharge on lions when hunting in the Selous with Luke Samaras as compared to the extra charge by TGT when hunting in other areas for that very reason. The trophy fee differencial, which they say is for anti-poaching, is about $2,000.

In 2003 Ortello Business Corporation generated around $275,000 for the Wildlife Division. There were three compaines with just over $100 K paid and the remainder were $50-75 K. Some of the big names were closer to $50,000 for their concession and trophy fees.

A politican sees these reports and then hears that outfitters are generating upwards of $500,000 per year on hunts. Officials have been to the SCI meetings and they want more.

They probably figure the outifitters can afford to pay higher fees.

IF a concession ran 16 buff hunters and 4 full bag clients they would generate over 300K in daily fees for around 242 man days. If the increase is $40,000 then the cost per man would be $165.00 per day each. Full bag hunter is paying twice the daily rate so you might charge him $200 and buf hunters $150.

$200 per day wont stop me but every time there is a price increase less people are able to afford the hunt.

Blacks in charge!!!!!

TN John,

My guess is that you might be over estmating the number of average billable days. Still I would guess a 20-30% increase in day rates would be necessary to cover the increased block fee for the Selous.

The real problem is the trophy fee increase on lion, leopard, ele.

Relative to the cost of a similar safari in other parts of Africa these increases are not warrented.

Brett

Honest question on how to make this math work.

Previously, the concession fee was $10k. Daily rates are $1200 and up or so. That would take all of 8 days or so for one hunter to cover that cost? So the rest goes to cover the rest of the costs of the hunt and the profit margin. Client already pays the gov. trophy fee, so its not like a price hike there effects the operators.

My understanding is that these hunts are generally tented style hunts since everything has to be removed at the end of the hunt. So we aren't talking about covering the cost of capital on a giant up front investment. Unless I am completely missing something, this just smells like a gigantic profit margin in this. (Which is fine by me by the way. Supply and demand.)

If there are a whole bunch of other costs that I'm not considering, then how do PG operators in Namibia and South Africa scrape by on $250-$400/day?

Now, if an operator is subleasing from someone else and paying huge costs there, then that changes the whole dynamic. But is that the norm?

Like I said, I'm a capitalist, so the price will be what the market will bear. But pleading poverty when the concession fees go from $10k/year to $50k seems a bit absurd. And especially wanting to pass every nickel of that on to clients already in the field.

If I was a taxpayer in Tanzania, I'd want the government to collect full value for these leases. If they can be leased for $10k and subleased for $50k, then why isn't the government charging $50k already? (I'd bet the real value is way north of $50k anyway.) Why line someones pockets whose sole effort is to sign a lease and them sign a sublease? That is really just a direct transfer of value from the government to a (probably) well-connected crony.

I don't want to start a flame war, but this doesn't really add up in my mind.

And this is coming from a guy whose got a 2008 buff hunt booked that may well be canceled if these price increases go through. Which will of course be a huge disappointment.

I am glad that i was able to hunt Tanzania in the past.

It is time to start looking at Mozambique a little more seriously.

$12,000 for a leopard....Give me a break!

Those numbers were per concession.

TGT total was $500 k for 2003, Barlette was tops at 600K paid to Wildlife.

Not sure how many buffalo hunters are put through a particular concession or on average how many total hunt days per concession.

Some areas are rested every few years and some are hunted hard every year.

You have to figure some outfitters spend $100,000 for sales and marketing related expenses. For some that could be 10% or more of revenue.

Just throwing out information for thought.

Rarely is every concession hunted every day. When I was in TZ I hunted two concessions: Monduli and Moyowosi. While I was in the first the other sat idle with a full camp staff of 15 or 16 cooks, trackers, skinners, camp manager (a white guy that typically has a 2-year commitment to staying there), ect in waiting. Many of them are there year-round.
It cost much more to run a camp in the bush than most would expect. Some concessions are multi-day rides on bad roads from any sort of replenishment, especially to the standards that foreign hunters demand. Many other necessities are flown in, though ideally when a hunter is in transit.
I remember my PH, who had previously run his own safari company in Zambia, was calculating the cost of our hunt and determining that very little actual profit was made as we figured the bulk of the Texas owner's benefit was through business write-offs from sending clients and their personal usage, which for a month each year included a large extended family.

I think it important to point out that nobody expects prices to remain the same forever. There's inflation and the fact that the US dollar has weakened considerably. What is upsetting is what the gov't did and how they did it. They not only completely gutted the existing fee schedules, but did so in the worst possible manner. Obviously, this was not done with the hunting community's input. Worse yet, they sprung this at the worst possible time. They have dropped this in July, after the firms have set up camps, procured staffing and supplies, and have largely signed this year's clients.

The government was either incredibly stupid or this was done intentionally. Given the fantastic increases in fees, the fact that they did not seek input from the industry, and the timing of this, makes me believe that it was done as some sort of punishment to the outfitters.

Any short term gains the government might get from revenues this year (questionable) will be more than offset by the instability they have created. Regardless of what happens now, many of us will be loathe to plan future safaris in Tanzania.

after

quote:

They have dropped this in July, after the firms have set up camps, procured staffing and supplies, and have largely signed this year's clients.

Signed this years clients????!!!!!!!
I booked my hunt at SCI Reno 2006!!!!!!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by 1115:
Jorge,

The problem with the girls vs the trophies is this. Once you mount a trophy, all you have to do is look at it. Mount a woman and see what happens.

Stating the obvious perhaps....but it would seem that the outfitters/PH's who do NOT own their own concession (also referred to on AR and elsewhere as "suitcase PH's") would have less flexibility regarding the handling of deposits and cancellations then those who do, especially if deposit monies have been passed on to the concession owner and booking agent if used.

Ditto with those that were offering the ultralowcost buff hunts (Luxury Hunts has been mentioned/debated on the forum). Not much "absorption" can be done in a situation like this, and who knows where the actual deposit money is. Could be a real mess in some cases.

For those of you that have not read SCI's response to the fee increases, check out the latest info posted on the website. Just click on this link: www.tanzaniahunt.org

John