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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting wildcat ammo to RSAGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Getting close now. I leave to RSA on May 14. My question is , when using a wildcat that is based on a case such as the 444 marlin case what will the SAP ask me to show that the ammo is for the gun ? Trying to cover all the bases so I have little trouble. Thanks | ||
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Sixgunner, I must admit that I don't actually have any experience of a client bringing in such wildcat ammo. In general, these days I have absolutely no faith at all in the South African Police Service (SAPS). It seems to me that a pre-requisite for any policeman/woman to be posted at the Johannesburg International Airport “Firearms Arrival†office include the following: 1. Illiterate, or at least seriously dyslectic. 2. Inherently rude, and/or have a hatred for any foreigners. 3. At least a few other personality characteristics that aids in putting off any hunter from ever coming back to South Africa. 4. Have a ping-pong ball instead of the normal cork stopper for the head beetle [Ask your PH about this one – if he knows the story it will be good telling.] Chances are actually very good that no one will ever look at the ammo all. If they look they will not see that the head stamp says one thing and the bullet or hole in the barrel of your firearm is actually another. Whatever you do at the SAPS office, do not volunteer information. Reply to questions briefly and honestly, but don't confuse the poor SAPS official with information he/she cannot assimilate at the rate that a good wildcatter can rattle off info about his favourite toy! But look at the worst scenario to cover the bases: Remember that in fact you are NOT smuggling some ammo to use in any illegal activity. You are merely bringing a legitimate firearm and the correct ammo for it into our country to help you spend foreign currency, which our country so desperately needs. But then considering the recent record of the SAPS this is not how they would view it if someone actually sees that there is something “unusual†about your firearm/ammo. They are likely to take the view that the ammo is special to be used to overthrow a government regime, or some other rediculous reason to give you a hard time! I would advise that you get a document from your own sheriffs’ office or local gunshop - but better an very “official looking†document - in which the fact that this particular firearm is actually a wildcat, and then explain that there are often differences between what the head stamp says and the actual hole size. You would not actually show this document, unless a serious situation develops. Depending on your PC skills, you could also prepare a nice label on your PC to paste onto the ammo box, to explain that this was factory made ammo at a special custom ammo manufacturer (you) etc. etc. There has been much posting on bringing in ammo in plastic cases of the type re-loaders use, vs. ammo in original factory packing. I would rather be on the safe side with a special green or brown plastic ammo box with a printed label stating that the ammo was manufactured by so-and-so manufacturers (your reloading shop?) and a lot of true technical data that says exactly what the ammo is, which components were used etc. etc. Consider also pasting on a special small “Quality Control†label so as to seal the box, and leave this seal intact, until requested to open it by SAPS. Rather over prepare by what may later turn out to have been totally unnecessary precautions, than have a lot of hunting time wasted trying to instruct an obstinate, half illiterate, hate-filled, idiotic SAPS official what a wildcat is. To be “politically correct†I must advise that you ask your hunting outfitter about this matter – as you are his client and he should really clear it. Enjoy your hunting and stay in South Africa. Andrew McLaren Andrew McLaren Professional Hunter and Hunting Outfitter since 1974. http://www.mclarensafaris.com The home page to go to for custom planning of ethical and affordable hunting of plains game in South Africa! Enquire about any South African hunting directly from andrew@mclarensafaris.com After a few years of participation on forums, I have learned that: One can cure: Lack of knowledge – by instruction. Lack of skills – by practice. Lack of experience – by time doing it. One cannot cure: Stupidity – nothing helps! Anti hunting sentiments – nothing helps! Put-‘n-Take Outfitters – money rules! My very long ago ancestors needed and loved to eat meat. Today I still hunt! | |||
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They didn't even look at my ammo last Aug. I was using a 375 JDJ, made from 444 brass. ______________________ Age and Treachery Will Always Overcome Youth and Skill | |||
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Hi sixgunner When bringing in wildcat ammo it is a chance you take. If they have a look at your ammo, you will need all the luck in the world to convince a police officer with a very limitted gun knowledge(they normally only know their personal state issue pistol and the other guns ussed in the force) why the case does not have the correct markings on them. Not even measuring the diammeter off the bullets will proof anything to them. Good luck Wimpie | |||
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To help yourslef along...1st, make sure you list the cartridge designation of the gun and the cartridge designation of the ammo exactly the same on the form. 2nd (not trying to stirrup the head stamp myth) but I suspect if your gun is an xx-444 the fact that the headstamp has 444 on it somewhere and on your bbl there is a caliber stamp of xx-444 as there should be you will likely be fine. Email me if you have questions... Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Last time I spoke to the cops at JIA I was told they were going to be very strict on applying the letter of the (new) law.....esp regarding wildcat calibres. As Andrew says it's not really our place to tell you what to do as you have booked elsewhere but I would strongly advise you to ask your outfitter to confirm with the cops at JIA (or wherever you're flying into) exactly what their current requirements are........if your outfitter doesn't know how to do this he will be able to find out from PHASA. | |||
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Another little tip. Place your ammo in the plastic cartridge box with the headstamp facing down. When you open the box for them to check, they can count the bullets, the chance that they will take out a cartridge to check the headstamp is very small Life is how you spend the time between hunting trips. Through Responsible Sustainable hunting we serve Conservation. Outfitter permit no. Limpopo ZA/LP/73984 PH permit no. Limpopo ZA/LP/81197 Jaco Human SA Hunting Experience jacohu@mweb.co.za www.sahuntexp.com | |||
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To be on the safe side, better make sure your second rifle is conventional in case you run into problems! | |||
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Shakari, No antagonism intended but the more we call and ask the mor attention we bring to the matter. Jaco, I like the head stamp down idea. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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keep head stamps down and heads up...I label plastic ammo boxes and seal them in a vacuum packer... Mike | |||
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Mike, No offence taken.......but they are now VERY strict and I was warned a couple of weeks ago by the top cop at JIA that they were not allowing wildcats to be imported...... The outfitter concerned should already checked there will be no problems - but if he hasn't there is probably still time to do something about it.......if the guy arrives at JIA and there's a problem then it's too late. Don't for a moment think that it's impossible for the cops to enforce the letter of the law......which allows for jail time and firearm confiscation and destruction if they find something out of order....... nor is there any relevance in posts saying well I did this whenever and got away with it......these requirements are being interpreted differently each week. The best thing to do is to ask the outfitter to do what he has already been paid to do. If he doesn't know how to do it, all he has to do is contact PHASA or the top cop at JIA directly. | |||
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Restamp the barrel to /444. The ammo now matches this number. | |||
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It has never been a problem but in todays RSA or any African country I wouldn't risk ruining an expensive Safari over something as minor as a wildcat when there are factory rounds to duplicate any Wildcat we have today....The day of the Wildcatter is long gone... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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