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What was the earliest year you hunted Africa and what is the most significant difference between how things are now and how they were then? Elephant Hunter, Double Rifle Shooter Society, NRA Lifetime Member, Ten Safaris, in RSA, Namibia, Zimbabwe | ||
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Muletrain, I certainly qualify as a "old gentleman" based on the number of years I have seen come and go. I have been on eight safaris to Africa starting in 1996. The most dramatic change has been the change in Zimbabwe. (May God look after the people there. Amen.) In RSA, the wage and hour law has changed the number of people on the truck and the amount of time they are there. There are fewer people on the truck, and many times they are picked up at noon when animals taken in the morning (if you've been lucky/skillful) are brought in for skinning. The service on SAA gets steadily worse following the example of our domestic carriers. Communications is better and getting better all the time. There seem to be more people in the business, but the old ones still are the way to go. The hunting opportunities, with the exceptions of a couple of countries where the "antis" are making themselves felt, are about the same. I believe that trophy quality overall continues to decline with the exception of elephant. I had the opportunity to talk with a man who was able to hunt Tanz in the 60's on my last trip. I wish we had had more time to visit because his few stories were like drugs to an addict. However, the camps we have now were only a dream then. No boreholes, everything trucked in. Tres primitif! Go now, the sooner the better; and go often because it is a passing era. Kudude | |||
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I was 50 when I went. | |||
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My first safari was 1998 and I was 37...Zimabawe was a fantastic country and had a thriving economy...most of Southern Africa was reasonably efficient and well run... Now most of Southern africa is a CF... Mike Legistine actu? Quid scripsi?[/] [i] Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Rusty, I like that! Kudude | |||
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I went on my first safari in 1997 in Zimbabwe. Kadude has said most of what I have experienced. I saw a wonderful country go to hell in a handbasket.I think that the exchange rate in Zimbabwe in 1997 was something like 7 Zim dollars to one U.S. dollar. I remember buying a pair of shoes like the Clark Desert Boots for 11 dollars U.S. The brand was Bata Bata. Still have 'em. The one thing I would add to Kadude's post is that going to Africa is getting more expensive. Travel, trophy fees, daily rates are sky rocketing. A lot of that is rising fuel prices, but evidently more people are willing to pay the price, so supply and demand rules. Sure makes it hard for a person on even a good salary to be able to go. I used to save up for two years, borrow the remainder and go. Took me two years to pay off the note and do it again. Now it looks like it will be once in three years now even if then. May just outrun me. I bought a new pickup in 1994. I am still driving it and will as long as there is a piece big enough to sit on. Anyway the short of it is, I have been paying payments on a new truck and still driving a 94 model. Its been worth every damn dime. | |||
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My first trip was to Zimbabwe in the very early 90's. Ten trips later I can see major differences. On my early trips Harare was a clean and well maintained city on the whole, and the road system was in good condition. Government officials were cordial and polite (even discrete in their "suggestion" of monetary recompense for their "services"  ). Crime, while common along the lines of property theft, did not usually involve person on person physical attacks. I felt safer walking down the streets of Harare than of any US city.As a matter of fact, I seriously considered buying a piece of land there. Thankfully, for one reason or another, I didn't follow through. The exchange rate was below 6-1, unlike the 60,000-1 or whatever it is this week   . All-in-all, Zimbabwe, South Africa, Botswana, Namibia, and Zambia were fantastic countries to visit, even if you were not hunting. Vic Falls was a bustling tourist destination, and the national parks were not poacher havens. Even when I was home, my heart was in Africa (as it still is in my memories). Now, little remains of that happy time other than memories  . Don't, however, mistake my nostalgia for the "old days". I still love the wild places of Africa, but for the rest of Africa my affection is tempered by the changes that have taken place.To borrow a phrase, "Time and change wait for no man". This especially applies to Africa. If you want to experience a shred of the "real Africa" of old, go soon, while there MAY still be a tiny bit left in the remote places. Jim  | |||
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First trip was 1994 with Russ Broom. Zimbabwe is still doable but not for the faint of heart. Costs have runaway in Zambia and Botswana. In 94 you could hunt buffalo in Botswana very reasonably but elephant was still closed. The government addons continue to climb as they are a greedy lot!! | |||
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I was also 50 when I went in 2004 to Zimbabwe, my best friend of 40 years also turned 50 so we did the tour together! It was worth the wait and all we had dreamed about! I will say one thing we made some great new friends in Zimbabwe but we were also aware of our deteriorating surroundings. If you have the desire and the means to go then get with it as Africa is allways changing and you do not know what tommorrow may bring! Good Hunting and shoot straight! Regards, RLWC | |||
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My first visit was in June 1980 for 7 days hunting in RSA. If I remember correctly a UK Pound was worth about 2.7 Rand and I took warthog, impala, kudu & bushbuck....... I'd expected Africa to be hot and packed accordingly and I froze my ass off for most of the time I was there. So much has changed since then..... in fact pretty much everything..... but what puzzles me most is where the hell did all these grey hairs come from and why don't these trousers fit me any more....... | |||
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ALF: I have read most of your posts and I respect your comments on Africa as you were raised there. Can you tell us how old you are as it is realitvy to the current situation? I also appreciate your comments on your fathers group of friends and buddies as it may date you with the rest of us 50 something folks? The old ones are leaving us quickly and sometimes we fail to appreciate the stories and histories they provide. To all listen up and take notes for we are the next OLD generation coming up! Good Hunting and Shoot Straight! Regards, RLWC | |||
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How much did a Big 4 hunt really cost ten years ago? | |||
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First hunt in Africa was in Zimbabwe 1982. I had some time to kill, and called on Klinebergers in Seattle, Washington, and asked about hunting in Africa immediately. The country or outfitter was not an issue!! Found a cancellation with Rosslyn Safaris in Zimbabwe. Went on a 21 day full bag hunt, shot an elephant, 2 buffalos and about 25 assorted plains game! I enjoyed every day of that hunt, and every day of all my subsequent hunts in different countries in Africa. That first year I hunted with Roy Vincent, and since then, we have had many more hunts together, including one this year in Tanzania. What differences I have noticed since then? Once one gets to the hunting camp, not much. All the differnces are in just getting yourself ther, with all hassles of the new regulation, whether by government or airline. But, as soon as you are through the airport after arriving there, everything become of no importance. Enjoy every minute of being there. | |||
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Saeed, you beat me by 2 years - I first went to "the Valley" in 1984. I was 29 years old and living a dream. I hunted for 6 weeks throughout the country on an 8 week total trip. After 6 weeks I was a bit homesick but at the 8 week mark I did not want to go home. Went back the next year [1985] and my PH offered me a job but in one year the economy had deteriorated so much I had no confidence in Zim even then. As it turned out I could have gotten maybe 15 years out of it! I have had 4 trips since but stopped in 1999 as most of my friends were farmers there who have been kicked off their land [some were 3rd generation] and their lives threatened. This made me sick to the core and at heart so no wsh to experience Zim again without my friends - most have left the country. Gamewise - the numbers of buffalo have dwindled due to overhunting - excessive quota given out combined with droughts and a black National Parks and government unable to manage elephant numbers exacerbating the destruction of the habitat. Along with this the average buffalo head taken dwindling in size as well. In 1984 a 40" buffalo was average where we hunted in the Zambezi Valley only a few years after the war ended and hunting started up again. Now it seems that a "representative head" is 35". On my first day in 1984 in Sapi I saw 400 buffalo[2 herds] ; 4 black rhino [2 separate run ins]; lion [2 separate occurances of 5 in total] along with Kudu, Warthog, Impala and Hyena. I am greatly saddened at what has transpired in this once fantastic country. If only it had vast stockpiles of oil then we would not have to put up with the murders committed by Uncle Bob. BTW - I don't think I am grand! possibly a gentleman but I prefer not to be "old" just yet!!!!!!! APB | |||
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My first trip over was in August of '88 to Zim with Tokkie Van der Merwe. I hunted for 26 days and took a FULL compliment of animals. I have been hooked ever since. The differences I see are ease of in and out traveling, what you can and cannot take with you and the prices. Global Sportsmen Outfitters, LLC Bob Cunningham 404-802-2500  | |||
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Forgive me if the term "Grand Old Gentlemen" offended anyone, but I did not know any other polite way to say it. Thanks for the responses. On average so far we have been going to our favorite hunting grounds for about one to two decades. It is surprising how many went to Zimbabwe on their first safari, and not surprising that they have noticed a lot of changes in that country in the last few years. I have been considering myself a beginner here by thinking that more than a few on this forum had been going since the 70's or even the 60's. My first trip over was to Zimbabwe as well, in 1993, With Roger Whittall's outfit. I hunted buffalo and plains game in Chewore out of a semi-permenant tent camp. The PH was Peter Fick. I thought I had died and gone to heaven after arriving in camp and finding out that Barrie Duckworth was also in the same camp hunting elephant with a surgeon from Ohio. That after reading all the Capstick and Boddington books printed up to that time. Imagine sitting at the same dinner table with those two men plus a real elephant hunter. The biggest change I have noticed are the prices. My total cost for that trip was $11,950, and included dip and pack, air charter, tips, and airline ticket. In my hand right now is Len Pivar's brochure listing his Cape Buffalo Safari 1x1 daily rate at $600 a day. Trophy fee for the buffalo was $1,000 and $100 for an impala. I really could not afford those prices back then but went on the trip annyway. The plains game prices today are equally out of my budget but I continue to go. Elephant Hunter, Double Rifle Shooter Society, NRA Lifetime Member, Ten Safaris, in RSA, Namibia, Zimbabwe | |||
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My first trip was to Zim in 1985 with James Baird. The most significant changes we see now is paper work. RSA is a pain, and Zim is not much better. Namibia remains quite sane & simple. I just looked up the hunt brochure from 1985 and found that trophy fees for Kudu were $450, Sable $800, Wildebeest $275, and Impala $90 Daily rates $225 per day. The interesting part is how the prices have changed in relation to our income & inflation. Now Kudu are $1,000 to 1,500, Sable $5,000 + Wildebeest $750 to $1,000, and Impala $350 to $450 Lets assume all Trophy fees have doubled or tripled. Daily rates have mostly doubled to $450 Airfare is a real surprize. In 1985 we paid $1585 to Harare, and today we pay only 18-1900. In 1989 we used Air Zambia out of JFK and paid $2,193.00 The real screwing we got was in 1991, when SAA was still not flying out of the USA, and we had to fly to London on North West, and then take Air Zimbabwe. We paid $3425.00 for a coach ticket. Now compare what you were earning back in 1985 & 1991 to what you are earning today, and you will see that a trip is far less of your annual earnings than it was back then. Now compare what you paid for an Elk hunt in 1985 -1990 as to what you pay for the same hunt today, it will scare you. I found that it is 8 to 10 times what I paid back then. Yes, Africa has changed, and is still changing, but as was said earlier, "Once in the bush, it's all about the same. Remember, forgivness is easier to get than permission. | |||
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I was blessed to go to Kenya in '73 right out of college as a guest of friends. Safari hunting was closed a few years later and has never reopened. Twenty eight day safari for PG/DG. Got an elephant near Tsavo East, but the populations were really destroying the park by that time. The experience in camp was as enjoyable as todays tented safaris in Tanzania('02/'03). The difference is price and the changes in the countries are reflected in the above comments. There was no such thing as a terrorist just high jackers to contend with. You need to make the safari be the primary focus while over there. As my wife says you cannot adequately explain an African safari to someone who has never been. It gets in your blood. On the good side Taxidermy has dramatically improved in the last 30 years and mounts are more realistic and last a lot longer. They are a lot lighter in weight to hang, too. Communication through Sattelite phones and use of GPS systems make it seem like a trip up the block. MedJet evacuation is a huge step in the right direction for what is not planned to occur. Forums like AR also give unbelievable reference material to educate the first timer or one who is constantly desiring to learn more. Robert | |||
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I am neither grand nor a gentlemen... but an old, "gentlewoman". On my first safari in 1996 I went to Botswana to celebrate my 50th birthday by taking a buff. The biggest change I've encountered is TRYING TO GET FIREARMS THROUGH JO'BURG!!! I hate the way it is handled now. It used to be so easy! D. Nelson | |||
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Having just turned 60 I represent that remark! I also go through the door marked "GENTLEMEN" so maybe I somewhat qualify there too. My first trip over was to Namibia in June of 1978. I was 32. It hadn't been Namibia very long. Shot a couple of greater kudu (including the 54" that's above me as I write this), a gemsbok, Mt. Zebra, etc. No fences then except for the alternating wire ones that let game crash on through without tearing up the fence or injuring the critter too badly. Went almost every year to a difference country after that. Hunted NW Zambia in 1980. Zimbabwe had just changed it's name when I hunted there in 1981. Ethiopia reopened in 1982 and I made 3 trips 3 years in succession. It was a wild and primative place with many different ecosystems. It still is today. There was a population of 28 million then. If you triple that now it would be close to right. Back then the natives had every 1895 8 mm Manlicher left in the world. Now they all carry AK's or FAL's. You have to go farther and pay more to find the primative areas but they are still there. I went to work full time for the outfit in 1985. It's been interesting to say the least...it's been a hoot! Rich Elliott Rich Elliott Ethiopian Rift Valley Safaris | |||
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I'm really glad to see that all these posts are not gloom and doom. Africa still offers good value for the hunting dollar in comparison to anywhere else. None of us will ever see the Africa that Ruark described but some great adventure in some still very wild places can be had. Personally what I feel the changes in Africa took anyway for me was the opportunity to see a black rhino in the wild. I've hunted with several PH's that described them as being quite common and often a real nuisance in the Zambesi and Luangwa valleys. It was hard to believe that in about 10 years they basically had become extinct. I think the biggest negative change has been the downward spiral of Zimbabwe although with a little research you can still secure a wonderful and relatively inexpensive hunting experience there. The private land seizures and the destruction of the economy are very sad though. Another sad and I think misguided venture will be the eventual closing of hunting in Botswana. A PH with 30 years experience and many years in Botswana sat in my living room recently and told me that he was positive that the closure was inevitable so get that trophy elephant booked now. There is lots of great hunting left and I'm putting down my hard earned dollars in 4 Southern African countries over the next 2 years and I have a foggy plan for '08. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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I first got the Horn of Africa in '77 and spent some time in Kenya (it was the year that hunting was closed by the poaching interests), Sudan (there quietly) and what was then the French Territory of the Afars and the Isis (now Djibouti). I did not get to Southern AFrica until '95 for a hunt in Namibia. We went back to South Africa for two hunts in '99, and then I hunted Zim in '01 and '02. Saeed is correct about the camp experience. The biggest change I notice is in governance: anarco-tyranny has definitely come to Africa. jim if you're too busy to hunt,you're too busy. | |||
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Saeed, Perhaps you met Peter Johnstone in '82? Shakari, I've got some pants like that!  Rich Elliott Rich Elliott Ethiopian Rift Valley Safaris | |||
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I went in 1972 to Tanzania, I haven't been back there since, but I have been to a lot of the other places. Age 32. You can figure the current one. Great changes, most of them already listed and mostly I agree, excceot I don't agree that elephant trophies are better. I sure don't see much to compare with what was taken out of Tanzania, Kenya, Sudan and CAR in those days. Prices are a shocker for DG hunts compared to what I used to pay. Maybe that why I look for bargains in Zim now. Anyway, the memories are there and far different from what I saw in Zim last month, but the world has changed. I just hate to change with it! | |||
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I did my first African hunt in 1993 in Zimbabwe with Rosslyn Safaris. It was a 10 day Sable, Buffalo and plains game hunt for $7500. I could have done a 14 day lion hunt with Rosslyn in Matetsi for $14K or leopard for $12K. I have been back to Zim 7 more times but no more. To see what happened to Zim in 10 or 12 years is tragic! I made my first trip when I was 53. I waited too long to start! | |||
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HootMurray, I am still driving my 95 Toyota pickup. It is still a great truck, and it has enabled me to make at least two safaris in the past ten years. Kudude | |||
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I made my first trip to Africa in 1977. I was supposed to go to Kenya but it shut down just a few months before I was to leave !!  The booking agent got me a hunt in the Northern Transvaal instead at what finally cost me $250 U.S. per day ..Zebra and wildebeest were $100 each .. leopard was $600 .. lions (which got away for three years from me) were $1,500 that year .. Amazingly enough .. about three safaris ago .. in Namibia (2002) I went on a 14 day safari .. shot a warthog and a big juicy leopard .. total bill was about $3,000 Canadian !!! Quite a bit cheaper than 19 frickin' 77 !!!  On that first safari I hunted near White River and I don't remember seeing any game fences. I'm sure they were around, though .. Three years later things were changing .. I loved Zim .. Now I go to Namibia every year ..  | |||
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Well I am a rookie in the company of many here.. Made my first safari in 02 to RSA at 52 years old..Again to Zim for buf and a bull ele 04 at 54... Then the unbelievable happened.. I won a 16 day safari to the Selous for the summer of 06 for 16 days and I added 5 days to the hunt..This will make it a full bag safari..A life long dream come true... Mike | |||
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Rich, Yes, that was the first time I met Peter Johnstone, and we have been friends ever since. We arrived in Victoria Falls and Roy picked me and my girl friend up from the airport. We went to camp and had our lunch. After that we checked the sights on our rifles - a Ruger M77 in 25-06 Remington, and a Remington Safari in 375 H&H. Both bought second hand, as my intention was to leave them in Africa. Peter got the 375 H&H and Roy got the 25-06 Remington at the end of my hunt. In the afternoon we went out and shot a waterbuck. We got back to camp just before sun down, and I bet not many first time hunters to Africa got the show we did! Peter had a foreman who liked his drink, and that afternoon he was stoned! Roy did not get on well with this foreman, but he had been working for Peter for many years. Anyway, Peter was screaming and slapping him across the face, and he in turn was shouting at Roy. Threats of bloody murder were flying between them. That night I had a loaded 25-06 lying next to my bed! Luckily, all that was fprgotten once the foreman woke up from his drunken stupor. | |||
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