We've only been back two weeks from our first trip to Africa and my wife and I are planning our next trip I'm hopeing for '05!!!

Anyway, this time over I want to hunt Eland. I've done a search and found that Ray, Ann and many others on this forum have taken Eland with a 30-06. Which is what I hunt with, I love my 06, I feel good using it and don't realy want to buy another rifle. I'm getting 2900fps out of mine with 180gr TBBCs. This year alone I've taken 4 trophies with it in Namibia 2 and a bear in Canada. I know bullet placement means more than whats on the headstamp, but heres my question. If you've taken an Eland with a 30-06 and had it to do again would you? Or would you move up to a .338win?

Africa '05!!!!

[ 09-24-2003, 23:27: Message edited by: mark65x55 ]

Personally I�d use a .375 H&H -then again that�s what I always say (shot a duiker with my darling Mannlicher Schonauer in .375 H&H). There�s been some discussion in an earlier thread on cal. choice and eland and I think the general feeling is that you need something heavier than a 30-06. Personally I don�t see a problem but I�d use a heavier, premium grade, bullet.

My eland at 250 yards dropped in its tracks and the bullet went all the way though. 7 mag with 160 partitions.

While Eland are a lot bigger than Kudu and Gemsbok, my PH uses an '06 on them all. I used a .300 mag and if I was to return I'd downsize to a .30-06 simply because I have a terribly lightweight .30-06 and I carried that rifle a lot. Also I was banging that 26" barrel on places I wish I didn't and my '06 has a 22" barrel.

I'm a believer in premium bullets however and I came home with a heck of a lot more respect for the .30-06 than I ever had. We way underestimate it's power because we use on deer here so much. It's a far far better gun than a deer gun.

You wouldn't be out of line with a .375 or a .338 but I'm convinced that you wouldn't be out of line with the old .30-06 either.

If one doesn't use a .375 on the larger antelope, the next question is, then where? Please, none of those "neither fish nor foul" responses. From oryx and wildebeest thru eland and lion, dwells the forte' of the .375, IMO. Above or below, more suitable cartridges may be named but, in the right hands, the .375 will do it all.

[ 09-25-2003, 04:52: Message edited by: Nickudu ]

I think you'll be fine with your 06 and the load you mention. IS the 375 H&H better? of course it is, but I don't think you'll have any problems with your rifle. Good luck. jorge

Let me preface my remarks by stating freely that I have never hunted an Eland. I've done two ranch hunts in South Africa so I'm a relative novice compared to many of the other posters here. The largest animals I have taken are a Gemsbok and a Red Hartebeest which, compared to an Eland, aren't really that large. Last year (Sept. 2002) I took my Ruger M77 Mk II in .30-06. This was the first time I had ever hunted with a .30-06! I took it for nostalgic reasons (Roosevelt, Hemingway, Ruark, etc.)

The first day of the hunt, we were in the truck when my PH looked at my rifle and good naturedly asked "What is that little thing?" (The rifle looked kind of small compared to the other rifles in the truck.) I said it was a .30-06 loaded with 220gr Woodleigh softpoints at 2460fps. He replied, "Hell, you can take an Eland with that thing!"

Personally, I think I'd feel more comfortable with something like a .338 Win Mag or a .375 H&H if I was going to be specifically hunting Eland. But if my .30-06, with appropriate bullets, was what I had in my hands when coming across an excellent Eland I think it would do the job.

Just my two cents worth...
-Bob F.

.375 H&H

Regards,

Terry

This is my opinion;
If Bell can kill bukus of elephants with a 7X57 and lord knows how much african game has been effectively killed with a .303 British (including a ton of lions ); Then a 30-06 can kill an Eland. From personal experience; I do know a 220 grain bullet from a 30-06 will go from stem to stern on a feral bull of 1,000 plus lbs. Would I have FELT safer with a 338 Win mag; No; a 375 H&H; Yes. Would it have REALLY made any difference; no. A 30-06 will not have the "safety factor" that a 375 H&H will have for an odd angle Texas heart shot or the way over yonder factor of a 340 Weatherby; But; a good stalk and well placed 200 grain premium bullet will work. Isn't the sweat and thrill of the stalk and feel of an extremely well placed shot from your favorite, well worn rifle what's it's about anyway.

[ 09-25-2003, 04:28: Message edited by: Old & Slow ]

I wasn't taking any chances. In Africa bigger is always better. I shot mine with my Sako .375 H&H Safari. Those Eland are BIG and very TOUGH. Even after a well placed first shot the bugger took off. I was flabbergasted.

300 Grain Federal Premium Trophy Bonded Bearclaw.

~ Paulus

This is a disturbing subject. The purpose is to impart maximum shock to the animal regardless of final shot placement (animals shift/move, vegetation gets in the way, the wind gusts....). This isn't fishing with light tackle. It is incumbent upon the hunter to make as clean a kill as possible.

Before you flame me, excluding misses, I'm 16/17 on one shot kills in Africa including the Eland.

Some of my rifles fired more rounds sighting in than at game. I hate baggage handlers.

Odie:
What caliber rifle are you talking about?

gs

"For the visiting trophy hunter, preparedness for any and all shot presentations will save you heartache and trophy fees, one day" Nickudu
I Agree; Africa is an expensive place with alot of time and money pressure too often imposed on both hunter and the PH. And; you are right; if the client MUST kill an Eland then the client should take a 375 H&H or a 416 even. I guess it just depends on one's attitude; and the poor PH catches it either way when things fail.
The main reason I am Old and Slow is for me the hunt is for the experience, not the kill, nowdays. That's a pleasure most PH's don't get the opportunity for very often I guess. It's a microwave fast world with zero failure tolerance; even on a Safari.

[ 09-25-2003, 09:14: Message edited by: Old & Slow ]

Real answer is 416 rigby or 458 Lott.
gs

Hi,
I am certain that an 06 is sufficient, but will qualify this by making sure I used premium 180 bullets (the tbbc are optimum). Just think of all the moose bulls that are killed every year in Canada with calibers smaller than the 06. A well placed shot behind, or even on the shoulder will put it to sleep no problems. He might run a hundred yards or so with a double lung hit, but will certainly be found. If you see effective performance as a result of shot placement and effective penetration, the 30-06 was good enough for many hunters of the last generation and it has only improved!

Well, I plan on doing a specialist Eland hunt one day and I will take my yet-to-be-completed 318 WR. 250 grains at 2400 fps.

I would be perfectly happy to shoot a premium .30 200 grain at 2500 fps into an Eland on two conditions:

It was at a sensible Bushveld range ie under 100 metres.

I was presented with a good angle.

If I was carrying my 375 then the second condition would not apply quite so much! But for me, waiting and working for the right shot is half the fun.

I have shot several eland with my '06, each time I had the feeling I was a tad undergunned. My last one was unusual, 2 shots at about 200m went into the dewlap as the animal was facing me.
It barely reacted. On the second shot it turned and started to trot across my front, then stopped to stare giving me a classic side-on shot. The bullet clipped the top of the heart and it wandered across a stream and fell close to an old logging track which made recovery a lot easier.
The 2 shots into the dewlap were like golf balls and there was nothing left of the bullets to recover.
The heart shot bullet I could not find either.
Bullet was Barnes 180gr @ 2600fps.
I have subsequently bought a 375 for the bigger antelope.

I think if I got 2900 fps out of an '06 (barring 30" bbl) I'd be concerned about pressures and sticky bolts in the hot sun of Africa.
Something to ponder....

My .30-06 with 200 gr Nosler Partitions did OK with my one and only eland and would again I'm sure.

But given a choice I would choose my .375 H&H. But I wouldn't see any reason to go any bigger.

Deerdogs - .318 WR with 250 grs, absolutely classic

Old & Slow
"Isn't the sweat and thrill of the stalk and feel of an extremely well placed shot from your favorite, well worn rifle what's it's about anyway."

Well said.

Bwana-be

"I think if I got 2900 fps out of an '06 (barring 30" bbl) I'd be concerned about pressures and sticky bolts in the hot sun of Africa."

I've had no problems with this load in my rifle. The ammo is Federal High Engery loaded with 180gr Trophy bonded Bear Claws. My rifle is a Browning A-bolt with a 22' barrel. A box of 20 averaged 2905fps on a 95 degree summer day in Alabama. In my dads 24" barreled Winchester they averaged 2950fps. I've shot maybe a 120 of these rounds through my rifle without a problem. Just a few weeks ago I took a Kudu, Gemsbok, Springbok and Bluewildebeest with this rifle and ammo. All where one shot kills except the Gemsbok, and that was because my first shot was to far back. That was all me, not the rifle or ammo.

As far as Moose. I hope to do that next year and after talking to the Canadain outfitter I bear hunted with, I plan on using my 06 for that as well.

With a '06 I suppose it will depend on the shooting distance and where you will be hunting thick bush or open plains a 180 gr barnesX will do on a long shot but a 220 gr bullet will do better at a short range.

Shot Placement, Shot Placement, Shot Placement, Shot Placement, Shot Placement, Shot Placement !!!!

A final comment ... we're all going to bring what we deem is "best for me", in regard to cartridge selection, which is as it should be. I wish to state, however, that the acquisition of a .375 caliber rifle is to be encouraged, as is a concerted effort on your part to gain proficiency in its' use. Those that do, will come to know what's to be had, via its' special blend of caliber and speed. No lesser caliber kills as well.

Mark...With the velocity you're getting from those Federal HE rounds, you are, in effect, running at 300 H&H levels...So...Is the 300 H&H sufficient for eland, or should one kick it up a notch or two???

One of the considerations on choice of caliber is the what else factor. Example: When elk hunting in the Rocky mountains what else might I run into...A Grizzly?

I'll be taking my .375 on the elk hunt. A lot of gun for the elk but you never know.

Where I hunted in RSA there was no dangerous game to be encountered so I would have no concerns about using the smaller .30-06.

If I was hunting in a place where there was a remote chance I needed to defend myself, I think a guy needs to consider that.

Mark,

I used a .375H&H and 300gr. Swift A-Frames on my eland. The first shot was through both lungs; the eland turned and ran directly away from me, so I put another SAF into its hip. That bullet was found in the neck during the necropsy.

What is that, 8 or 9 feet of penetration? No .30-06 is going to give that kind of penetration.

Having said that, I, too, have a .30-06 that is just a phenomenal game-slayer. I would have used it on an enormous lioness in Zimbabwe had the PH let me. I would shoot an eland with it, but ONLY take a broadside shot where I could take out both lungs.

George

I have seen a few Eland shot with a 30/06 and similiar cartridges. It has worked "OK" for several and poor on a few. Shot placement aside if you only get one hole in an animal that lives in a large group. When that group departs the dust and sand that settles down over whatever tiny little blood was there will be gone or near impossible to find. Now you're tracking footprints alone.

When you hunt for something this big that has skin as thick as Eland, and a body weight greater then a Cape buffalo you will not likely get a consist exit hole from .308 bullet diameters and bullet weights. There is absolutely no doubt that a 30/06 will kill an Eland. I have seen it several times. However locating the Eland after he is shot is really the goal, not just killing it.

For all those that constantly recall the old days and what one guy claims he did with a 7mm just remember that when the game ran off and was located days or weeks later all they wanted was the ivory anyhow. Who cares if they did not find it or the meat was spoiled? It just made sliding the tusks out easier when it was rotten. Plus they had only to look for the vultures to locate the ivory. They did not care much about collecting trophies to ship home. When game was lost they just went to shoot more. Gone are the days of no limits and wasteful practices. Today there is a whole bunch of time and money spent just to get to Africa and then you have very limited time and expensive trophy fee's.

If the hunter is willing to practice "archery limitations" when using the 30/06 then it's a fine tool for the job. I'm not so much talking about distance limitations with this as I am shot placement. If you wait for the perfect broadside shot and make that connection you will likely find your Eland piled up after a tracking job. If you travel all the way to Africa and must pass on all but the perfect shot it seems prudent to just buy the bigger gun and be done with it.

Personally, at least for me I would not bother with the 338 if you have a 30/06 you love. Just go the whole way and get the 375HH. Both the 30/06 and 375HH have identical trajectory so switching between them is easy enough. Especially if the 375HH is of identical manufacture to the 30/06 you already have. How did I come to this conclusion? I only own two hunting rifles, one is a 30/06 and the other is a 375HH. Both identical in nearly every way down to the trigger pull weight. Yeah I have the Lott as well but I would hunt with the 375HH for nearly anything over the Lott. My 458Lott is strictly insurance for my job I don't really look at it as a hunting rifle.

This past season I had a fellow who has hunted with me several times and uses a 30/06 for everything. He was hunting with his father inlaw who had a 300 win mag. The son in law shot an Eland at about 100 yards perfect broadside, this was a massive bull eland too. At the shot the Eland jumped up and then walked a few steps. He turned to look at us and was still chewing his cud with that 30/06 hole in his chest. I suggested he shoot again. Another perfect centered chest shot. The Eland again jumped up and trotted away. When we walked to the spot he was last seen. There was a single drop of blood indicating a hit and then the tracking started. About an hour into the tracking we catch up but have only going away shots. The 300 win mag and the 30/06 roar and the eland trots away again. We track another 20 minutes and find another couple spots of blood where the Eland had laid down. About 20 more minutes go by and we see 12 or so eland of which 3 are bulls. However we see no blood on the bulls at the 100-130 yards while they are standing. The hunter says that's great ours must be down someplace. Well he may think that's good but now how do we find him with the hundreds of Eland tracks to sort out and no blood trail?

We did find this bull and we had to shoot him again but it was a neck shot with the 300 win mag that finally did the trick. The Son in law and the father in law have both since purchased 375HH rifles for their future African hunts! I have never lost an Eland shot while I was the PH. However there have been several we have looked for a very long time. If I were hunting as a sport hunter travelling that far I would certainly invest in a 375HH. If this is trip number two for you, .....you still have trips 3 through ???? who knows how many more? You will have plenty of use for the bigger gun on the bigger animals yet to come in your future.

Where would the 9.3x62mm fit into this equation?
Thanks.

The 06 is fine on broadside shots that are placed well if one uses a good 200 to 220 gr. bullet or a 180 Monolithic IMO...I have shot a few Eland with the 200 and 220 gr. Noslers.

However, since I will take whatever shot is presented for the most part, I prefer the 338 with 300 gr. Woodleighs, the 9.3x62 with 320 Woodleighs or a 375 with 300 gr. bullets...

I have shot a few Eland with my 416 and 400 gr. North Forks, Woodleighs and Noslers and it sure works well on them. I don't have to worry about a blood trail and they don't make a lot of tracks with the 416 or the 404...

Remember that an Eland will outweigh a Cape Buffalo! Use enough gun, why ruin a Safari because your gun won't cut the mustard, that doesn't make since...but only if you can handle the recoil.

After all is said and done the .375 H&H Magnum is unequivocally THE caliber for African heavy plainsgame situations such as Eland. To mess around with smaller calibers is to tempt fate. Now after all that planning and expense why would anyone want to do that?

Thanks for the replys After reading them and thinking it over, as much as I like my 06, I guess I'll look into buying a .338 or .375. Even though I'd rather spend the money on trophy fees instead of buying another gun. O'well I got some time to think about, I don't see how we can make it back before '05 , again thanks for your help.

Mark

Africa '05!!!

I've been fortunate enough in my hunting career to shoot two Livingston and one Cape eland. Each was shot with a different caliber. I've used a .375H&H with 285 grain Grand Slams, a .338WM with 210 grain Nosler Partitions and a .30-.338 with 165 grain Swift A-Frames. All took more than one shot, but without a doubt, the gun with I would choose again, hands down, is the .375! None fell in their tracks, but the shortest tracking job (about 20 yards) was with the grand ol' dame of the African bush, the .375H&H Magnum.

I am with Ray in that I take what ever shot is available. I use my 375 for nearly everything which enables me to take animals in odd positioning. I would hate to watch an animal and wait until he turns just right for the shot.

Mike

While hunting in Namibia some years back, I watched a German hunter take an Eland Bull from @120 yards away using the "Texas Heart Shot". The bullet ended up in it's brisket. He was shooting a 7X57 with 175 grain Barnse X Bullets. The X Bullets were only a couple of years old at the time, and the P.H. nearly s... himself when the hunter took the shot from that angle. He almost s... himself again when he saw how far the bullet penetrated.

Mike416Rigby - He now keeps one taped to the wall of the crapper, so he'll be a more regular fellow, from now on!

The point I'm trying to get across is that I believe using almost any modern firearm, with a well constructed, high sectional density bullet designed for penetration will get the job done. Would I use a 30:06? Probably not. Not because I don't think it would work, but because I have a 375. However, if I were only going to Africa 1 or 2 times, and plains game was the only thing on the menu, I'd use the '06 in a heart beat, and load it up with a premium 200 or 220 grain bullet,and never second guess my decision.

I hartily concur with 500Nitro. 30-06 will do -for cows or young bulls but for a mature bull there are too many failures. Going up in velocity isn't really the answer either since most eland are shot at reasonable ranges.

The classic eland cartridge is the 333 Jeffery. So a 338 9,3 or .375 are the logical choices. Also 30-06 isn't legal for Eland in most African countries. Too many wounded and lost by hunters with 8mm Mausers and .303's for game departments liking.

So use a 30-06 if you don't mind your PH killing your eland for you.