quote:

Originally posted by miketaylor:
I was filming a hunt in Chewore South back in 2005. We were following a herd Buffalo and they crossed a main hunting road and stopped about 50 yards the other side. The client could have easily shot one of the bulls at the back but the game scout told us we had to wait until they were 400 meters away from the road before we could take a shoot.

Same in Zambia. No shooting or baiting within 400m of a road. Regarding waterways the rule is centre of the river.

There should be no real need to hug the Park boundary if your concession is half decent.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
There should be no real need to hug the Park boundary if your concession is half decent.

I typically don't disagree with much of what you post, but I'd say Nixon's production over the years demonstrates his concessions are pretty damn good for ele and buff. And there are 2 national parks adjacent to his concessions, making for plenty of reason to hug the boundaries - particularly for ele. There is a big difference between National Parks and Communal Land .... less of gap with the Safari Area, but that area is relatively small.

quote:

Originally posted by tygersman:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
There should be no real need to hug the Park boundary if your concession is half decent.

I typically don't disagree with much of what you post, but I'd say Nixon's production over the years demonstrates his concessions are pretty damn good for ele and buff. And there are 2 national parks adjacent to his concessions, making for plenty of reason to hug the boundaries - particularly for ele. There is a big difference between National Parks and Communal Land .... less of gap with the Safari Area, but that area is relatively small.

While Nixon does shoot some big Ele it is my understanding their "Hit" rate is not what a lot think it to be. I understand this area to be a Hero or Zero proposition talking with one friend and some others who have hunted there this past two seasons. If I understand correctly the first 6 elephant hunts in 2013 were a bust.

quote:

Originally posted by McKay:

quote:

Originally posted by tygersman:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
There should be no real need to hug the Park boundary if your concession is half decent.

I typically don't disagree with much of what you post, but I'd say Nixon's production over the years demonstrates his concessions are pretty damn good for ele and buff. And there are 2 national parks adjacent to his concessions, making for plenty of reason to hug the boundaries - particularly for ele. There is a big difference between National Parks and Communal Land .... less of gap with the Safari Area, but that area is relatively small.

While Nixon does shoot some big Ele it is my understanding their "Hit" rate is not what a lot think it to be. I understand this area to be a Hero or Zero proposition talking with one friend and some others who have hunted there this past two seasons. If I understand correctly the first 6 elephant hunts in 2013 were a bust.

I think you are correct that it is a hit or miss proposition.

Most folks go there to shoot over 50 lb. Elephants. If you were willing to shoot the Zambezi valley average of 40 lbs., then he would probably be close to 100%.

In my experience, he never even considers shooting anything under 50.

The good thing about not shooting an elephant is that you don't have to write the check and with Nixon you might get a huge Buffalo while you are at it. I'll take my chances with Nixon any day.

quote:

Originally posted by McKay:

quote:

Originally posted by tygersman:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
There should be no real need to hug the Park boundary if your concession is half decent.

I typically don't disagree with much of what you post, but I'd say Nixon's production over the years demonstrates his concessions are pretty damn good for ele and buff. And there are 2 national parks adjacent to his concessions, making for plenty of reason to hug the boundaries - particularly for ele. There is a big difference between National Parks and Communal Land .... less of gap with the Safari Area, but that area is relatively small.

While Nixon does shoot some big Ele it is my understanding their "Hit" rate is not what a lot think it to be. I understand this area to be a Hero or Zero proposition talking with one friend and some others who have hunted there this past two seasons. If I understand correctly the first 6 elephant hunts in 2013 were a bust.

Fair enough, but I'd be happy to hear of my other options to shoot a 60+ pounder with a realistic chance at much bigger ....

quote:

Originally posted by BEGNO:
I'll take my chances with Nixon any day.

And we do.

Actually, I intend to quit recommending and defending Nixon, so all you doubting Thomas's will stay away, and me, tygersman, Biebs, Tim and few others can have him to ourselves. I'll be there in July, right behind Biebs and tygersman.

Cheers

quote:

Jeeeessuusss Chrrriissst....no wonder there are people who don't want to post hunt reports anymore.

Seriously? sometimes y'all act like a bunch of vaginas, who cares what someone else thinks about what you did or didn't do.

quote:

+2 tu2

Some seem to not appreciate that PMs and emails can be used to resolve issues versus posting. Why cast some shadow over someone else's hunt because you had a bad experience on yours?

Mike
. . . then just start a thread about game scouts, hunting boundaries and riverbeds without reference to someone else's hunt . . . including using "Tim's hunt with SSG" as the topic. Does not take a rocket scientist to understand how this discussion could have raised and framed in a generic way versus the way it was. JMO. coffee

Mike

Seriously Mike? You never cease to amaze me, even the guy you suggest should be "injured" by this thread (Tim), has the stature and confidence to state that "this is a valid discussion" and reply with his version/view.

quote:

I would like to know where in the above Post I "cast Shadows" on Tim's hunt???
How about when I said "First I would like to Congratulate Tim" OR "That is a good elephant" OR "This has nothing to do with Tim"

I did not post this in Tim's hunt report as I did not want to "cast Shadows" on his hunt. As for the asking these questions by PM, I kind of thought this fourm was here so we could gain information. I have used it for that for my 15- 16 trips to Africa. I can hear the questions if I had not said location, time and which company. Most would have wanted to know and righly so.

Any shadows cast were cast in Nixons direction, and I make no bones about it. I have recieved MANY PM's on SSG since my personal hunt report there. I thought this fourm was not only to hear the good but also the bad. With 15-16 trips under my belt, I think I know the difference. I don't have a vested interest in Nixon's operation, I don't gain anything by telling the truth or a lie. I was just asking why the difference.
On the surface of this issue it seems, based on the creditable responses, Nixon had nothing to to with my game scout telling us we could not shoot in the riverbed. I would surmise from this topic, that if you are hunting with Nixon personally, this would not happen. I do know he sells quota to others and maybe this will serve to educate those that are not hunting with Nixon.

I have said all I am going to say on this thread Flame Away

jeff h,
don't let the little girls buffalo you, this is a great topic that should interest anyone on this forum that hunts Zimbabwe. What kind of moron doesn't want to be an informed consumer? As far as the "you should have redacted names" crowd, why? First, you know that would have only lasted about 2 replies before someone on here with an IQ of more than 60 put 2 and 2 together, second, If someone is so weak that they can't join in a conversation about something they were personally involved in, screw 'em. Personally, fell free to fire away on anything that I do (hunt or post) that you have questions or disagree with. That is what keeps this place interesting.

quote:

Zim law states that you cannot shoot any animal within 400 meters of any National park, that is their buffer Zone.

You can hunt right onto the border of another hunting area though.

If an animal is shot in a river bed bordering a national park, it is fine as long as it is 400 meters or more from Said National park. But of Course one can get a difficult/corrupt game ranger at times, that does not understand the law, or is just a prick.

Potentially, this is the most interesting post on this thread (IMO), and no one has acknowledged it? I guess that means either it's BS and I am the only one who isn't informed, or it's true and no one has the balls to talk about matters of true substance? Where are our Zim PH's? Buzz? Martin? Ivan? Leon? Thierry? I am sure there are more, let's quit talking about what some muntu game scout told me and talk about what the rules actually state, assuming they actually exist.

Zim is a lawless place, so what does it matter. If the game scout says shoot, I shoot, it is that simple. If he says don't shoot, we discuss it and then probably shoot.

Let's make it more interesting. Does the Lacey Act apply if you shoot in the river bed. LOL.

quote:

Originally posted by BEGNO:

Let's make it more interesting. Does the Lacy Act apply if you shoot in the river bed. LOL.

About as much as the Foreign Corruption Practices Act applies to the tip the game scout gets at the end of the hunt.

Mike

quote:

Zim is a lawless place, so what does it matter

interesting, so why get a ph? or pay for a hunt? fly into Harare with your rifle, pay a cabbie a couple hundred bucks to drive you to the Save (or your concession of choice), and start blasting...

That is absurd Brad.

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

quote:

Zim is a lawless place, so what does it matter

interesting, so why get a ph? or pay for a hunt? fly into Harare with your rifle, pay a cabbie a couple hundred bucks to drive you to the Save (or your concession of choice), and start blasting...

Cause you might take a wrong turn going to the Save and end up at Uncle Bob diamond mines where you will be meet by not very nice people with a lot more guns that you.

I think this is a valid topic. I do not think that Jeff was hammering on Tim. I think Jeff's reaction would have been the same no matter who took that elephant.

Jeff is clearly pissed with Nixon. I don't blame him.

Some have had great hunts with Nixon. Good for them. Some other have not and kept quiet about it for their own reasons.

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

quote:

Zim is a lawless place, so what does it matter

interesting, so why get a ph? or pay for a hunt? fly into Harare with your rifle, pay a cabbie a couple hundred bucks to drive you to the Save (or your concession of choice), and start blasting...

Because it's not our lawlessness that prevails but that cultured within the authority present in Zim. Currently, I expect it would be frowned upon to do as you suggest. But next year that hunt might be up on the Offered Hunts Board for a couple thousand bucks and a 12 pack of beer.

There is one issue I am troubled by. Over and over in this thread it is mentioned that a game scout has discretion to determine when and where to hunt. He is the local "on the truck enforcer" of the law or the rules or an agreement.

My issue is that this game scout is normally the lowest guy on the totem pole. This biggest professional achievement to-date most likely is getting a rusty beaten up AK. He will get tipped at the end of the hunt but most likely the least on the truck.

If the outfitter is hunting a concession he normally has a relationship with much higher up people in the game department/government who determine his concession, quota, government fees and other monetary agreements (bribes in poor jurisdictions).

Why would a low position game scout start getting in the way of pre-determined rules (I am not saying just legal rules but agreements/arrangements between the game department and outfitter)?

I just find that strange that a low man on any organization starts "getting in the way" - he is least likely to rock the boat.

But hey it is Africa - maybe they don't have time consistent rules in anything. Just strange.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I think this is a valid topic. I do not think that Jeff was hammering on Tim. I think Jeff's reaction would have been the same no matter who took that elephant.

Jeff is clearly pissed with Nixon. I don't blame him.

Some have had great hunts with Nixon. Good for them. Some other have not and kept quiet about it for their own reasons.

No argument that the topic may be valid, but there is a right way and wrong way to raise an issue. This was the wrong way.

I see that 505 gibbs has shown up. Won't be long before Trax shows up too. Sort of like hyenas and vultures when the carcass starts to stink.

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

quote:

Jeeeessuusss Chrrriissst....no wonder there are people who don't want to post hunt reports anymore.

Seriously? sometimes y'all act like a bunch of vaginas, who cares what someone else thinks about what you did or didn't do.

quote:

+2 tu2

Some seem to not appreciate that PMs and emails can be used to resolve issues versus posting. Why cast some shadow over someone else's hunt because you had a bad experience on yours?

Mike
. . . then just start a thread about game scouts, hunting boundaries and riverbeds without reference to someone else's hunt . . . including using "Tim's hunt with SSG" as the topic. Does not take a rocket scientist to understand how this discussion could have raised and framed in a generic way versus the way it was. JMO. coffee

Mike

Seriously Mike? You never cease to amaze me, even the guy you suggest should be "injured" by this thread (Tim), has the stature and confidence to state that "this is a valid discussion" and reply with his version/view.

quote:

I would like to know where in the above Post I "cast Shadows" on Tim's hunt???
How about when I said "First I would like to Congratulate Tim" OR "That is a good elephant" OR "This has nothing to do with Tim"

I did not post this in Tim's hunt report as I did not want to "cast Shadows" on his hunt. As for the asking these questions by PM, I kind of thought this fourm was here so we could gain information. I have used it for that for my 15- 16 trips to Africa. I can hear the questions if I had not said location, time and which company. Most would have wanted to know and righly so.

Any shadows cast were cast in Nixons direction, and I make no bones about it. I have recieved MANY PM's on SSG since my personal hunt report there. I thought this fourm was not only to hear the good but also the bad. With 15-16 trips under my belt, I think I know the difference. I don't have a vested interest in Nixon's operation, I don't gain anything by telling the truth or a lie. I was just asking why the difference.
On the surface of this issue it seems, based on the creditable responses, Nixon had nothing to to with my game scout telling us we could not shoot in the riverbed. I would surmise from this topic, that if you are hunting with Nixon personally, this would not happen. I do know he sells quota to others and maybe this will serve to educate those that are not hunting with Nixon.

I have said all I am going to say on this thread Flame Away

jeff h,
don't let the little girls buffalo you, this is a great topic that should interest anyone on this forum that hunts Zimbabwe. What kind of moron doesn't want to be an informed consumer? As far as the "you should have redacted names" crowd, why? First, you know that would have only lasted about 2 replies before someone on here with an IQ of more than 60 put 2 and 2 together, second, If someone is so weak that they can't join in a conversation about something they were personally involved in, screw 'em. Personally, fell free to fire away on anything that I do (hunt or post) that you have questions or disagree with. That is what keeps this place interesting.

quote:

Zim law states that you cannot shoot any animal within 400 meters of any National park, that is their buffer Zone.

You can hunt right onto the border of another hunting area though.

If an animal is shot in a river bed bordering a national park, it is fine as long as it is 400 meters or more from Said National park. But of Course one can get a difficult/corrupt game ranger at times, that does not understand the law, or is just a prick.

Potentially, this is the most interesting post on this thread (IMO), and no one has acknowledged it? I guess that means either it's BS and I am the only one who isn't informed, or it's true and no one has the balls to talk about matters of true substance? Where are our Zim PH's? Buzz? Martin? Ivan? Leon? Thierry? I am sure there are more, let's quit talking about what some muntu game scout told me and talk about what the rules actually state, assuming they actually exist.

Brad,
Pete is a Zim PH hunting longer in Zim than everyone you mentioned. Pete knows what the law states (not that you were doubting him).

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:
Jeeeessuusss Chrrriissst....no wonder there are people who don't want to post hunt reports anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
+2

Some seem to not appreciate that PMs and emails can be used to resolve issues versus posting. Why cast some shadow over someone else's hunt because you had a bad experience on yours?

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

+3

+4 This unfortunately happens all too often here! I agree with Tendrams, I would never post a hunt report here!

In response to shooting in a border river bed, I have never heard of it being illegal, only that if the animal is not pole-axed and escapes into the other concession or park, you pay and go home empty. I have shot buffalo, hippo, and zebra in the Luangwa river bed between the Upper Lupande hunting concession, and the South Luangwa Ntnl Park. But that was in Zambia so may or may not be legal in Zimbabwe, I’ve never had occasion to ask or be told one way or the other in Zimbabwe.


.......................................................................

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Barnard:
Zim law states that you cannot shoot any animal within 400 meters of any National park, that is their buffer Zone.

You can hunt right onto the border of another hunting area though.

If an animal is shot in a river bed bordering a national park, it is fine as long as it is 400 meters or more from Said National park. But of Course one can get a difficult/corrupt game ranger at times, that does not understand the law, or is just a prick.

So, if this river is a boundary to the park as I believe it is...the center of the river may be the boundary borderline...but anywhere in the bed is not 400 meter from the center.

According to what Pete wrote the scout who said the river is off limits is correct.

Heres the curve ball

In Sengwe 1 and I believe 2 the Limpopo river is the International boundary with Kruger on the other side-

nothing was ever said by management or the game ranger about a 400 yd (meter?) buffer zone.

So does it only apply to Zim Parks?

quote:

That is absurd Brad.

BUTCH

more absurd than your statement that "Zim is a lawless place, so what does it matter"? My point exactly.

quote:

Brad,
Pete is a Zim PH hunting longer in Zim than everyone you mentioned. Pete knows what the law states (not that you were doubting him).

J. Lane Easter, DVM

Lane,
Good information, I am not familiar with Peter, my goal was not to question anyones expertise.

quote:

So, if this river is a boundary to the park as I believe it is...the center of the river may be the boundary borderline...but anywhere in the bed is not 400 meter from the center.

According to what Pete wrote the scout who said the river is off limits is correct.

J. Lane Easter, DVM

If Peter is correct, than the elephant was poached, whether intentional or accidental. Perhaps Butch's smart ass "Lacey Act" comment is more pertinent than he originally intended? Where are all the anti-poaching, play by the rules conservationist? Crickets up in this mofo.

quote:

No argument that the topic may be valid, but there is a right way and wrong way to raise an issue. This was the wrong way.

I see that 505 gibbs has shown up. Won't be long before Trax shows up too. Sort of like hyenas and vultures when the carcass starts to stink.

Mike

So, now that a Zim PH has appeared and stated that this is a violation of Zim's laws as it was presented by the hunter, can we talk about it now in public? Remove your nose from Tim's anus and be a man Mike. Let's talk about issues that any one of us could easily get caught in. Would you import this elephant now, with the current information? Great post jeff h.

I have hunted along several Zim Natuional Park boundries and I was always told that it was illegal to shoot an animal within 400 meters of a park boundry. I had to pass up a 65-70 lb bull because of that law.

465H&H

Now all we need is 1-800 that guy poached this or that. Right.
Good info and good debate, but got hijacked.
Aren't we all in this together?

Zimbabwe has lots of rules when it comes to hunting a safari area and as Pete has posted 400m from a national park boundary is one of them
400m from a prescribed road is another
400m from a waterhole is another
Shooting from a vehicle is another
Callers are another
Shooting at night is another that is not permitted ( 30mins before sunrise to 30 mins after sunset )
Lots more in the parks act....

Rules are bent by
Corrupt game scouts
Game scouts who do not know the law
PH's who bend the rules
Money !

quote:

Originally posted by jeff h:
First I would like to congratulate Tim on a 60 pounder, That is a good elephant. We are pretty certain this is the elephant Phillip Smyth and I saw and thought he was 55 tops, same shape/broken tusks as pics I have, and since Tim was there the day after I left. We got very close, took lots of pics, We let him walk, glad he touched 60 for Tim.

My issue is the bull is clearly shot in the river bed between the park and the hunting area. Tim's comment said "our side". So this tells me he was in the river between the park and the hunting area.

WE WERE TOLD IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS WE COULD NOT SHOOT ANYTHING IN THE RIVER BED. Our gamescout would not even walk in the river bed looking for tracks. When we did look for tracks in the river bed, he followed up along the top of the river bank.

This has nothing to do with Tim. Just pointing out that the rules changed from my hunt to Tim's in one day.
It appears to me that Nixon makes them up as he goes. OR the gamescout was given different directions for my hunt??? Buyer Beware...

And for those who think I have sour grapes, I took a 73 pounder in Zim two months later. Just pointing out the differences...

Congrats on the 70 pounder!

That is worthy of mention. You are one out of.....well many!!

Did you perchance bring your issue up with Nixon prior to posting on AR? Phillip certainly knows the rules also, and knows how to work with the local game scouts. Perhaps he kept you out of a sticky?
My way of thinking that speaking to Phillip and Nixon would have been the first conversations you should have had. I know I would have. That may have explained the situation sufficiently so you could post the answer and not the question
Several opinions concerning the legality or not on here. The only valid one is yours, and of course Phillips at the time.
Africa - TIA. rules are, well up to interpretation, depending on the situation. I don't think the game scouts are especially versed on the rules, and yes, I think a few of them come up with rules as they see fit, maybe based upon how well they like you or feel they are going to be "tipped" or any number of variables. The PH's know the rules, and the number one rule is don't piss off the game scout.
I suggest everyone going to Africa make "special attempts" to become friends with the game scout, starting when you first meet him. My last Zim trip I was informed that we had gotten a Game Scout that was difficult. I made efforts to meet him, shake his hand, offer him cigarette's and candy, converse with him, drink a beer with him, talk about his family etc. and I can tell you he was pure pleasure to be around the whole safari. He emails me to this day, although very infrequent. Anyway, it has worked for me. And in the while, if a few rules get "softened" don't go overboard yourself, you are representing the hunting community. As far as borders - well there are no lines drawn. Its "gray" at best

Once again, 70 POUND ELEPHANT, CONGRATULATIONS!!!
Things happen for a reason. Lady Luck hit you smack on the noggin. Probably not appropriate to rub it and say ouch

I'm due for Zim in May, hunting right up against one of the national parks. I can only dream of a 70lb er. Hopefully one of the big boys ventures out or stays out of the park long enough for us to round him up. If not, oh well. It would be heartbreaking to see a giant run back inside the park

Regardless, its elephant hunting. One of the few special opportunities and special feelings and satisfactions in this world for hunters. If anyone is one of those guys that is in it simply for the size of the tusks, you are missing out on a great experience. Just my honest opinion

Just speaking for my hunt, this was not just the game scout. The following morning as we went back to butcher the carcass, the commander of Zim National Parks (Game and Fish) office for the area came by and stopped for a short visit and checked the ele out. He had 2-3 other National Parks guys with him, and no one had any concerns about where the elephant was shot. I assure you that no money changed hands either.

I sure didn't get out a tape measurer, but maybe we were 400 meters from the boundary line, the river is really wide there. I don't know, but the scout with us and the boss "game warden" of the area were all good with the location, so no reason for me to think anything other than the hunt/kill were kosher. Also there was a communal scout there, and he had no issues either. So that is a pretty large group of people there to oversee the law that were present.

Since we don't get Zim rulebook of game laws with a license, like we do here in the US when you buy a license for a given state, we do have to rely on PH and the National Parks Scouts and personnel to tell us what is legal and not. It sure seemed unanimous that all was good by all of the authority figures on site.

There are 2 game scouts in this photo...

Tim

Congratulations on a bloody nice elephant.

Tim
Thanks for posting your hunt and congrats on the elephant.
JCHB

Awesome jumbo Tim

Excellent elephant and a very nice picture Tim

quote:

Originally posted by BEGNO:
The good thing about not shooting an elephant is that you don't have to write the check

You know that is always one of my main criteria's when I am trying to decide what outfitter to book a hunt with.....

Congrats on a great elephant!

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Barnard:
Zim law states that you cannot shoot any animal within 400 meters of any National park, that is their buffer Zone.

You can hunt right onto the border of another hunting area though.

If an animal is shot in a river bed bordering a national park, it is fine as long as it is 400 meters or more from Said National park. But of Course one can get a difficult/corrupt game ranger at times, that does not understand the law, or is just a prick.

So, if this river is a boundary to the park as I believe it is...the center of the river may be the boundary borderline...but anywhere in the bed is not 400 meter from the center.

According to what Pete wrote the scout who said the river is off limits is correct.

FWIW, this is what I was told by Richard Tabor, a PH who happens to be friends with Pete, while hunting adjacent to Mana Pools - the boundary was the river bank on the park side. The 400m was measured from the bank.

Some areas the river was wider than 400m, some narrower, especially upstream.

So on some stretches of the river part of the bed was outside of the 400m buffer and some stretches even the near bank was within the buffer.

Also, if an already wounded animal breached the 400m buffer after the first shot it was ok to keep shooting, until it reached the far bank and was therefore in a Nat'l Park.

He also mentioned that some Park Rangers might be ok with allowing a recovery or even follow up within "their" park, depending on circumstances, but others as a rule would prohibit either recovery or follow up. The bottom line he is if you shoot near a park boundary shoot well.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by McKay:

quote:

Originally posted by BEGNO:
The good thing about not shooting an elephant is that you don't have to write the check

You know that is always one of my main criteria's when I am trying to decide what outfitter to book a hunt with.....

LOL! I was thinking the same thing! Can you imagine getting on the plane to come home and thinking "Sure, I spent $15,000 in daily rates and $2200 in airfare to come home empty handed...but at least I didn't spend another $15,000 on the trophy fee"! LOL! That is not the kind of comfort I want! Personally, I think most guys dream about the opposite scenario. I personally pray to come across an 80+ pound bull while on a simple 10 day buffalo hunt and in an environment of leftover elephant quota. Nothing like the pressure of "field negotiations" with a nice big bull in front of you....trying to feign indifference in front of the PH while he is begging you to shoot...and while the price (and possibly payment arrangement) is becomes increasingly flexible.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
There is one issue I am troubled by. Over and over in this thread it is mentioned that a game scout has discretion to determine when and where to hunt. He is the local "on the truck enforcer" of the law or the rules or an agreement.

My issue is that this game scout is normally the lowest guy on the totem pole. This biggest professional achievement to-date most likely is getting a rusty beaten up AK. He will get tipped at the end of the hunt but most likely the least on the truck.

If the outfitter is hunting a concession he normally has a relationship with much higher up people in the game department/government who determine his concession, quota, government fees and other monetary agreements (bribes in poor jurisdictions).

Why would a low position game scout start getting in the way of pre-determined rules (I am not saying just legal rules but agreements/arrangements between the game department and outfitter)?

I just find that strange that a low man on any organization starts "getting in the way" - he is least likely to rock the boat.

But hey it is Africa - maybe they don't have time consistent rules in anything. Just strange.

Mike

A game scout is not a low man on the totem pole compared to most of his countrymen. In the scale of things he is pretty well off.

It is among his job's responsibilities to observe the hunt and ensure that it is done in accordance with laws and regulations.

Just like our police and our rangers and wardens they occasionally are misinformed or mistaken or misinterpret a rule or law.

Just like our police, rangers and wardens there are some who are just going to be difficult pricks.

Like very few of our police, rangers and wardens, a few are going to be corrupt, looking for "tips" in advance of the completion of the hunts. We call them bribes.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Herald:
Just speaking for my hunt, this was not just the game scout. The following morning as we went back to butcher the carcass, the commander of Zim National Parks (Game and Fish) office for the area came by and stopped for a short visit and checked the ele out. He had 2-3 other National Parks guys with him, and no one had any concerns about where the elephant was shot. I assure you that no money changed hands either.

I sure didn't get out a tape measurer, but maybe we were 400 meters from the boundary line, the river is really wide there. I don't know, but the scout with us and the boss "game warden" of the area were all good with the location, so no reason for me to think anything other than the hunt/kill were kosher. Also there was a communal scout there, and he had no issues either. So that is a pretty large group of people there to oversee the law that were present.

Since we don't get Zim rulebook of game laws with a license, like we do here in the US when you buy a license for a given state, we do have to rely on PH and the National Parks Scouts and personnel to tell us what is legal and not. It sure seemed unanimous that all was good by all of the authority figures on site.

There are 2 game scouts in this photo...

Tim: Many of the people here also might not realize that a large Parks field office is just across the river and a hop, skip, and jump to Nixon's main camp. That's where we'd often pick up our game scout and chat with other officials. They're well informed of Nixon's operations.

I recognize a few faces from your pic, and it brings back nice memories. The communal scout on the far left, John (I believe), has incredible eyes for spotting game and despite not really having to do anything but ride around and watch us, really jumped in and contributed to my hunt.

Great bull Tim. Looking at that last photo, I have hunted with that same crew twice. They are a hard working bunch!

By the way, for those who haven't been there, not all the hunting is along the park boundary. Neither of my two elephants was shot along the river. Both were traditional tracking hunts.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Herald:
Just speaking for my hunt, this was not just the game scout. The following morning as we went back to butcher the carcass, the commander of Zim National Parks (Game and Fish) office for the area came by and stopped for a short visit and checked the ele out. He had 2-3 other National Parks guys with him, and no one had any concerns about where the elephant was shot. I assure you that no money changed hands either.

I sure didn't get out a tape measurer, but maybe we were 400 meters from the boundary line, the river is really wide there. I don't know, but the scout with us and the boss "game warden" of the area were all good with the location, so no reason for me to think anything other than the hunt/kill were kosher. Also there was a communal scout there, and he had no issues either. So that is a pretty large group of people there to oversee the law that were present.

Since we don't get Zim rulebook of game laws with a license, like we do here in the US when you buy a license for a given state, we do have to rely on PH and the National Parks Scouts and personnel to tell us what is legal and not. It sure seemed unanimous that all was good by all of the authority figures on site.

There are 2 game scouts in this photo...

Tim,

No one is questioning you mate and the flavour of the thread is more about Park boundaries and regulations that are attached to them.

Fantastic elephant and very well done.

Cheers