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I think the biggest mistake Americans make, espacially those who have not hunted African game, is, they tend to judge toughness by the weight of the animal, no matter where they are from! This is a bad mistake, because, though size does make a difference, in this case, anyway, it isn't an indicator of tenacity of life! I'll give you an example most Americans can relate to! Take a little 15 lb badger, and a 150 lb muledeer, as comparison. The mule deer is readily slapped to his belly by a shot to the lungs with a little 158 gr bullet from a 357 mag pistol, while one may shoot a badger ten times with the same pistol, and still get put up a tree! The 60 lb Wolverine, and a 400 lb Grizzly! The Grizz has a paw blow that will break the neck of an Elk or Moose with one swat, yet the wolverine can take multiple blows from a Grizz, and still run him off a kill! What I'm saying here is, It is the genetics of an animal, along with thousands of years of evolution, caused by what an animal has had to deal with, as a species, that makes him tough to kill not his size, or weight! Take the cape Buffalo, for instance! He is on the run 24/7 from something, and this makes him a lot tougher than Bessy the cow! His hide is thicker, his muscles are like bands of steel cable, and he can take a real hit, and not even show sign of enjury. A claw hammer is all that is needed to kill Bessy, with a hit between the eyes, but I dare anyone to hit a Cape Buffalo with a hammer, from inside an armored car! A good sable weighs about 450 lbs, yet I have never seen one shot, that went down with one shot, unless the spine, or brain was hit! That is one tough animal. Someone in that string stated all animals were shot with non-expanding bullets in Africa! That statement simply shows ignorance on the poster's part,and places him in the, "I never hunted Africa, but I hunted elk, so I know what it takes to do an effective job on Sable, which weighs less than the elk I shot last year!", the "I know my opinion is the right one" catagory! In my 70 yrs on this Earth, I have hunted a lot of game, in North America, Asia, and Africa, and it is my opinion, that generally speaking African game is pound for pound far more tenacious of life than North American game! Of course I could be wrong, since I've only hunted both continents extensively, for the toughest both have to offer!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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MacD37 the more of your post I read the more I like you, thanks! | |||
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I think that some of it has to do with cervids versus bovids. Cervids mostly have branched antlers and their rutting fights involve more pushing than stabbing. Bovids more often get stabbed - their fights more resemble fencing matches than wrestling bouts. So, the bovids tend to react less to sudden disruptions of their integument - a good solid heart shot will kill either variety about equally, but a bovid is more adapted to operating with relatively minor disruptions of lung function. Does this hold true in NA? I think so. Mountain goats are, to me, more tenacious of life than elk or deer. Is there a real answer? I doubt it, but this is my best guess. All skill is in vain when a demon pisses on your gunpowder. | |||
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  Gerhard FFF Safaris Capture Your African Moments Hunting Outfitter (MP&LP) Proffesional Hunter (MP&LP) History guide Wildlife Photographer www.fffsafaris.co.za | |||
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MacD37: I agree. | |||
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I would definitely agree that it's not based on weight. My Eland, which weighed more than the biggest Cape Buffalo, was dead within 30 seconds of being shot through the heart with my .300 WSM using a 180 gr. FailSafe. For their size, they are not that tough when compared to Buff. _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
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Eland Slayer: I killed my first eland with the same exact caliber, shot and bullet in '02 as you used. At the shot taken from 180 yards he dropped dead in his tracks. Had to have a winch and 8 people to even begin to get him up into the truck, and that after he had been gutted out. | |||
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There is not a question in my mind that African game is far, far tougher than North American, for all of the reasons that Mac mentions. Since, that is, the extinction of the saber toothed cat and the giant cave bear! Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Just a slight point -- if you try to kill cattle w. a claw hammer, not much is going to happen, other than you'll get the @#$$% beat out of you. USUALLY you can knock them out w. an 8# sledge between the eyes, but they might just stumble. Completely irrelevant, other than people who didn't grow up around them tend to think they're all friendly marshmellows. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor. | |||
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I agree with MacD37, but I never take much notice of "evidence" involving one Eland or one Zebra, or one anything. His experience over time counts. I've lost count of all the hooved animals I've shot over 45 years, and everyone was shot from a different angle, different range, different conditions; even when using the same rifle and bullet. I've had jackrabbits appear very tenacious. Everything I've shot in Africa (and it's not been much on two trips) have gone, bang-flop, which is just the way I like it. Still, I think the comment is correct. To me it is the difference between an animal being truly wild, and one living around people, highways, civilization. There is also the genetic factor mentioned. I still think the meanest thing in the world to hunt would be a Spanish fighting bull raised in the wilds of Zimbabwe, Zambia, etc. They don't need or want a reason, they will just come for you if you approach them on foot. It's bred into them. Who knows, maybe in Africa they would change from school-yard bully to 98-lb pussy. | |||
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I leave for RSA Aug.1 and will be hunting plains game 30-06 180 Gr, TSX Federal factory loads. Untill I get back I have 0 experance so all I can do is wait and post after the Hunt ,Rupert Bear you have a PM | |||
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I don't think there is any difference in toughness or tenacity of life. Many African animals have their heart/lungs a little lower than animals in North America, so a hunter who does not take this into account can hit in a less vital area. Second, many Americans hunting in Africa tend to use too heavy a caliber which, due to recoil, they can't shoot as well. They may also use heavier bullets which don't expand as well. I think factors like this account for any perceived difference. In my own limited experience, and my notes concerning range, where hit, how far the animal ran, etc., African plains game proved no tougher than deer, caribou, or elk when shot with the same rifle and bullets. Indy Life is short. Hunt hard. | |||
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I agree with MacD37s post at least the first part of it. With all due respect to Macs opinion my experience has led me to a different conclusion. Having taken several hundred NA animals ranging in size fron Coues deer to Alaska-Yukon moose and a couple hundred more African aninmals ranging in size from grey duiker to elephants, I don't believe that african animals are more dofficult to kill than NA animals. In fact if elephants were as tough to kill as a Rocky Mountain goat, I don't think you could carry a rifle big enough to safely hunt them. I'll prbably git a load of crap over this statement but I think elephants are easy to kill especially for theirsize. I also don't think that an eland is more difficult to kill than a big moose. The only difference is that the moose will usuall stand there after he is hit through the lungs until he realizes he is dead while the eland will spend that same amount of time running. 465H&H | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Another thread about African PG vs. NA G
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