Anyone familiar with this South African outfitter? On their Facebook page they advertise:

"Hanno has acquired permission to use hunting concessions the size of 1 million acres in Zimbabwe. These areas include Makuti Safari area, Save Conservancy, The Hurungwe Safari Area and the world renowned Mana Pools National park on the banks of the Zambezi River."

Then they go on to say:

"We have very good news about our Zimbabwe hunts. Available for 2015 - 7 elephants bulls, 10 tusk-less, 22 buffalo, 6 leopard, 7 sable, 2 lion and plenty plains game."

I found the reference to having hunting rights in Mana Pools disturbing to say the least. Is this another example of a South African outfitter taking advantage of the chaos in Zim to rape Zim's national parks?

never heard of them; but all can see is big red flags

Disclaimer: I am sorry to offend any SA guys who ethically operate in Zimbabwe. Your PH's are the ones who have given the whole lot a bad name. I am aware there are good guys from SA who hunt DG in Zim, I am not talking about you ... but ...

Generally, South African + Zimbabwe = Trouble.

The problem is that the bad guys get 90% of the press and the few good guys get squat except for an occasional mention.

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Originally posted by butchloc:
never heard of them; but all can see is big red flags

Funny enough i see Authentic African Adventures proudly claim that they are the biggest hunting outfitters in Africa..................

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Originally posted by kallie404:

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
never heard of them; but all can see is big red flags

Funny enough i see Authentic African Adventures proudly claim that they are the biggest hunting outfitters in Africa..................

That is good enough for me to avoid them at any cost!

[/QUOTE]Funny enough i see Authentic African Adventures proudly claim that they are the biggest hunting outfitters in Africa..................[/QUOTE]

Hanno is 7 ft tall.

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Originally posted by Pieter Kriel:

Funny enough i see Authentic African Adventures proudly claim that they are the biggest hunting outfitters in Africa..................[/QUOTE]

Hanno is 7 ft tall.[/QUOTE]

Google image search seems to prove so. That's one big fella. TIA=truth in advertising or that is Africa? Regarding the tipping questions, I'd be afraid not to tip him!

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
Disclaimer: I am sorry to offend any SA guys who ethically operate in Zimbabwe. Your PH's are the ones who have given the whole lot a bad name. I am aware there are good guys from SA who hunt DG in Zim, I am not talking about you ... but ...

Generally, South African + Zimbabwe = Trouble.

The problem is that the bad guys get 90% of the press and the few good guys get squat except for an occasional mention.

Sorry but there are NO good SA operators operating in Zim, they are all up to no good if they are in Zim

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Sorry but there are NO good SA operators operating in Zim, they are all up to no good if they are in Zim

Doesn't give some of the Zim operators much credit either as these guys must be working hand in hand with local elements.

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Originally posted by fujotupu:

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Sorry but there are NO good SA operators operating in Zim, they are all up to no good if they are in Zim

Doesn't give some of the Zim operators much credit either as these guys must be working hand in hand with local elements.

Yip, you are very right fujotupu, they are deff working with local elements,many of which are so called new landowners!!

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Yip, you are very right fujotupu, they are deff working with local elements,many of which are so called new landowners!!

Don't tell me the "blacklist" has "faded" with the introduction of our friends from Cape Horn or is it still open season as far as the Lacey Act is concerned?

I note from the Authentic African Adventures website that apparently in addition to offering hunting in Mana Pools, Mr. van Rensburg is not just a member in good standing in PHASA, but is actually a 2013 PHASA award winner. Just further evidence that PHASA does not give a damn that their members are participating in the rape of the national resources of their neighboring countries. Some have said that in order for PHASA to act, they need proof. I guess someone's own admission on their Facebook page is insufficient proof. I hope there is a day of reckoning for the South African "professional" hunters that are engaged in these sorts of activities, as well as their Zimbabwe "professional" hunter co-conspirators.

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Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Yip, you are very right fujotupu, they are deff working with local elements,many of which are so called new landowners!!

Don't tell me the "blacklist" has "faded" with the introduction of our friends from Cape Horn or is it still open season as far as the Lacey Act is concerned?

"Blacklists" have never worked!

All they do is give some politician the chance to put a croc smile on his face.

I would go as far as to suggest that NO ONE should hunt with a South African outfit in Zimbabwe.

Doing that one is asking for trouble, as there are many honest outfits in Zimbabwe who go out of their way to make sure one gets a legal, honest, and very successful safari.

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Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

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Yip, you are very right fujotupu, they are deff working with local elements,many of which are so called new landowners!!

Don't tell me the "blacklist" has "faded" with the introduction of our friends from Cape Horn or is it still open season as far as the Lacey Act is concerned?

I would go as far as to suggest that NO ONE should hunt with a South African outfit in Zimbabwe.

Doing that one is asking for trouble, as there are many honest outfits in Zimbabwe who go out of their way to make sure one gets a legal, honest, and very successful safari.

That advice is spot on.

Guys I have no dog in this fight, I do not hunt in Zimbabwe at all and know very little of what's going on there, I also want to make it clear that I have absolutely nothing to do with AAA. My question IS has they done anything wrong yet? have they being caught? and if so what did they do besides some advertising on Facebook? have anybody exactly called them and asked about it? if so please Inform us on AR.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Yip, you are very right fujotupu, they are deff working with local elements,many of which are so called new landowners!!

Don't tell me the "blacklist" has "faded" with the introduction of our friends from Cape Horn or is it still open season as far as the Lacey Act is concerned?

"Blacklists" have never worked!

All they do is give some politician the chance to put a croc smile on his face.

I would go as far as to suggest that NO ONE should hunt with a South African outfit in Zimbabwe.

Doing that one is asking for trouble, as there are many honest outfits in Zimbabwe who go out of their way to make sure one gets a legal, honest, and very successful safari.

I think , expecting hunters to only book a hunt through an outfitter from that country is not realy practical. It is common for hunters to have their outfitter book their hunt in another African country. Not only South Africans do it. Zimbabwean outfitters bring their clients to South Africa for example to hunt species not available there. This is a good thing , as long as they stick to the law and use an outfitter from that country. Now , there are umpteen times more South African operators than any other African country , so by sheer numbers there will also be more crooks in the game.
It is becoming harder and harder for outfitters to sell hunts , why not have other outfitters bring their clients to you ? It's a win - win scenario.
Do your homework on who you plan to hunt with , and get references. If you're booking a leopard hunt with xyz safaris in a certain area , get a number of references of hunters that have hunted Leopard in that area with your guy.
Happy hunting

With you on that one Jan and I also like to add to Support Phillips point of view . I am sure the guys on the other side of the border knows who controlled the mentioned areas . Have they done any research on the claims made by AAA. I am also tired of going to shows and in stead of marketing your own business be on the defense because of bad operators and believe me they are everywhere . The also operate and reside in all countries in Africa .

I hope there can be a decent answers found to questions raised . We need to get over you and us situation . We need to stand together to ensure we will have an industry we all left for generations to come .

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
My question IS has they done anything wrong yet?

In my opinion there is certainly a basis to be highly suspicious which is what prompted my initial inquiry. They are advertising hunts in Mana Pools National Park and I could care less if they have a piece of paper with some corrupt minister's signature on it authorizing the hunting. Sometimes doing what is right is not necessarily the same as doing what is ostensibly legal.

Peter Barnhard, that is quite a statement to make to say there are no good South African operators operating there, No I know you are going to use Some examples of some bad ones that was there before but you find them in any country!!, LET ME BE CLEAR ON THIS IF THEY BREAK THE LAW go after them and put them away! but IF a South African or for that matter anyone doing A hunt there with A licenced and legal ZIM operator what is the problem??

Intrepid:

It would be well worth remembering that the land-grabbers who acquired farms/ranches somewhat undemocratically are listed as undesirable individuals.

Doing business with this lot is considered a criminal act back in the States and American citizens flaunting this veto are subject to prosecution (I stand corrected if wrong).

I know that in times of shitstorms and all that crap it is consindered good style to tare and feather people without having all infos.
BUT maybe, just maybe, we should check details before we start calumny..........

I for one do not agree with the tendency to lay the majority of the blame for park hunts on these South Africans. Clearly the moral ethical and legal responsibility rests with the dead man of Africa, Zimbabwe. It's like blaming Mexicans for illegal immigration.

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Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
Guys I have no dog in this fight, I do not hunt in Zimbabwe at all and know very little of what's going on there, I also want to make it clear that I have absolutely nothing to do with AAA. My question IS has they done anything wrong yet? have they being caught? and if so what did they do besides some advertising on Facebook? have anybody exactly called them and asked about it? if so please Inform us on AR.

I believe they have done something wrong. They are advertising a hunt in Mana Pools: if someone were stupid enough to book it and the hunt took place in Mana Pools it would be an illegal hunt; if someone were stupid enough to book it and the area was changed he lied to the client and pulled a bait and switch. Either way I would never do business with this company.

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
Peter Barnhard, that is quite a statement to make to say there are no good South African operators operating there, No I know you are going to use Some examples of some bad ones that was there before but you find them in any country!!, LET ME BE CLEAR ON THIS IF THEY BREAK THE LAW go after them and put them away! but IF a South African or for that matter anyone doing A hunt there with A licenced and legal ZIM operator what is the problem??

Sort of agree.

ARs theory is if it is legal so be it.

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Originally posted by Navaluk:
I for one do not agree with the tendency to lay the majority of the blame for park hunts on these South Africans. Clearly the moral ethical and legal responsibility rests with the dead man of Africa, Zimbabwe. It's like blaming Mexicans for illegal immigration.

No, it is more like blaming both the person asking for the bribe and the person paying the bribe. Both are involved, both are wrong and both are responsible. As they say, it takes two to tango.

Mj

I stated the blame seems to be slightly more on the SA people than on the Zim people. I think that, or an equal distribution of blame is incorrect. We have a few SAs who are taking advantage of the Zim choices very much like the Lado hunters took advantage of the power vacuum there. When I read those Lado stories I put most of the blame on the governments of the Lado and their mismanaged transition, rather than on the ivory hunters who took advantage.

At least there wasn't the outright government and professional hunter collusion in Lado as we see in Zim. (Relax, I'm not saying every single government employee and every single PH is involved). But clearly to arrange these hunts and to falsify where the animal was killed and to falsify the export paperwork, takes more than a greedy SA. This Zimbabwe false paperwork for export of ivory taken in Parks, for example, should at least raise the interest of USFW since they are so quick to close imports whenever mismanagement is even loosely rumored to be happening.

Zimbabwe is primarily responsible for this continuing to happen, just like the US is primarily responsible for its illegal immigration problem. That's what I meant and still mean.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Mr. van Rensburg is not just a member in good standing in PHASA, but is actually a 2013 PHASA award winner. Just further evidence that PHASA does not give a damn that their members are participating in the rape of the national resources of their neighboring countries. Some have said that in order for PHASA to act, they need proof. I guess someone's own admission on their Facebook page is insufficient proof. I hope there is a day of reckoning for the South African "professional" hunters that are engaged in these sorts of activities, as well as their Zimbabwe "professional" hunter co-conspirators.

PHASA looses all credibility when nothing is done in situations like this.

Simply offering a hunt in an area where no legal hunting exists should be grounds for expulsion. THIS is the smoking gun.

But what the hell do I know ...

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Mr. van Rensburg is not just a member in good standing in PHASA, but is actually a 2013 PHASA award winner. Just further evidence that PHASA does not give a damn that their members are participating in the rape of the national resources of their neighboring countries. Some have said that in order for PHASA to act, they need proof. I guess someone's own admission on their Facebook page is insufficient proof. I hope there is a day of reckoning for the South African "professional" hunters that are engaged in these sorts of activities, as well as their Zimbabwe "professional" hunter co-conspirators.

PHASA looses all credibility when nothing is done in situations like this.

Simply offering a hunt in an area where no legal hunting exists should be grounds for expulsion. THIS is the smoking gun.

But what the hell do I know ...

Does make one scratch their head . . .

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Authentic African Adventures/Hanno van Rensburg

Looks to me like Hanno is just one of many SA game-ranchers trying to make a go of it on his small, (in his case 16,000 acre) holding.

I didn't see anything about Zim at his website,though I didn't read every page.

He probably just made contact with someone from Zim (or they contacted him), and he decided to go for it, though he probably doesn't know any of the details or legality of it.

He's probably got a nice little set-up down in SA, for what it's worth, and I wish him the best of luck ... and hope he doesn't get mixed up with the wrong crowd in Zim.

Maybe someone from AR who knows the ins-and-outs should give him a heads-up; better than dragging his ass thru the mud here.

quote:

Originally posted by Jan Dumon:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Yip, you are very right fujotupu, they are deff working with local elements,many of which are so called new landowners!!

Don't tell me the "blacklist" has "faded" with the introduction of our friends from Cape Horn or is it still open season as far as the Lacey Act is concerned?

"Blacklists" have never worked!

All they do is give some politician the chance to put a croc smile on his face.

I would go as far as to suggest that NO ONE should hunt with a South African outfit in Zimbabwe.

Doing that one is asking for trouble, as there are many honest outfits in Zimbabwe who go out of their way to make sure one gets a legal, honest, and very successful safari.

I think , expecting hunters to only book a hunt through an outfitter from that country is not realy practical. It is common for hunters to have their outfitter book their hunt in another African country. Not only South Africans do it. Zimbabwean outfitters bring their clients to South Africa for example to hunt species not available there. This is a good thing , as long as they stick to the law and use an outfitter from that country. Now , there are umpteen times more South African operators than any other African country , so by sheer numbers there will also be more crooks in the game.
It is becoming harder and harder for outfitters to sell hunts , why not have other outfitters bring their clients to you ? It's a win - win scenario.
Do your homework on who you plan to hunt with , and get references. If you're booking a leopard hunt with xyz safaris in a certain area , get a number of references of hunters that have hunted Leopard in that area with your guy.
Happy hunting

Jan,

I agree with you to a point.

I have hunted with a South African PH in Tanzania several times.

And I have hunted with a Zimbabwean PH in Tanzania many times, and I will continue to do so.

The problem is when it comes to Zimbabwe, there has been so many uncouth PHs from South Africa, getting help from uncouth Zimbabwean PH, doing things they really should not be doing.

Of course, PHASA KNOWS what is going on, and does nothing about it.

Of course, we have heard that old excuse, that PHASA cannot do anything unless someone complains.

I'm with you Saeed , these "fly by night" outfitters are a serious form of embarrassment to myself and other South African outfitters. Instead of expecting only PHASA to take them on , why don't the Zimbabwean authorities take on their Zimbabwean co conspirators without whom these guys cannot operate ? Either way , the industry needs serious cleaning up.

quote:

Originally posted by Jan Dumon:
I'm with you Saeed , these "fly by night" outfitters are a serious form of embarrassment to myself and other South African outfitters. Instead of expecting only PHASA to take them on , why don't the Zimbabwean authorities take on their Zimbabwean co conspirators without whom these guys cannot operate ? Either way , the industry needs serious cleaning up.

Jan, I agree. One would hope that SOAZ and ZPHGA would act as well although given the political realities in Zim it would not surprise me to find them sitting on their hands. I think the reality is that given how chaotic Zim is some of us, myself included, would like to think that the South Africans, who clearly seem to be capable of acting more responsibly at the moment, would set the example. But your point is an imminently fair one.