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I am thinking about going to Tanzania in '07 for a buffalo hunt. Now I know that big buff are kinda where you find them, but there has to be better areas than others for big buff. Any suggestions? | ||
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Lightning, You are right, that you can find big buff any where, especially Tanzania. Check the record books, you will find the majority come from Masailand. Lobo, Lolkisale, Lake Natron, Maswa, etc. You cannot be wrong finding a good Masailand outfitter that knows his area and has a reputation. TGTS, Adam Clements, etc. And also pay attention to the season. Large areas of Masiland are very weather / season dependent (July is typically awesome as is very late season (Nov 15 - December 25). In between can be dicey. | |||
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Lightning, Another place to consider is Ruhudji, southwest of the Selous. This is Harpreet Brar's area(Rungwa Safaris), and was never hunted until 2003 when one hunter went in. They had 5 hunters in last year and took a 48" and a 46.5". These are bona fide, I did indeed shoot the 46.5" buff and saw and measured the 48". I also have video of one that was as least as large as these two after I shot all of my buff. Harpreet is a good freind, but I couldn't even talk him into buying another license to take this buffalo. I am sure there are more there. It is an impressive area and largely unexplored to this point. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions. David McNeil | |||
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Lightning, if you can make it to dallas in January at the Safari club convention you will have a buinch of guys to tal to Ph's from Zim and Tanzania as well as many of us who have been there and can quiz first hand... Mike | |||
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Since I live in the DFW metoplex, it is easy for me. But even if I didn't live here I wouldn't miss the Dallas show for anything.  See you there!  | |||
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One of the most intelligent statments I have ever heard came from one of the greatest PHs in Africa, Roy Vicent...He said that the problem with most American hunters is they come to Africa with unrealistic expectations... Roy is presently hunting with his son Allan. They are PHing for Saeeds bunch in Tanzania as we speak..... I have killed as many buffalo as any American born citizen that I know and very few of them exceeded 40 inches....I have hunted about everywhere in Tanzania and Zimbabwe. In my opinnion a 40 plus buffalo is about as rare as a 30 inch mule deer, and a 45 inch is about like finding a 34 inch mule deer, they are out there but not everyone kills them.... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Ray, I do not always agree with you, but you are dead solid perfect on your comments about expectations. If a hunter's life is measured in inches, he is a lost soul - he has lost the reason we hunt. EXPECT - to have a great time, a lot of fun and great memories. Forget the inches. | |||
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Craig Boddington once wrote you should never judge a Buffalo hunt in mere inches - and he's dead right! - Having said that I've found over the years that ( as Hugh W says) in general Masailand tends to have better Buff trophies than Selous, but far fewer Buff overall. If you opt for Masailand I'd advise extending your 7 day licence to 10 days if you can. Of the two areas I personally prefer Masailand nowadays but it's all a matter of personal taste. I've had some clients who didn't like it at all due to the presence of the Masai and their cattle etc. I'd add to Ray's/roy's comment by saying that most clients or at least, most first timers come to Africa with unrealistic expectations.... it's not just Americans. | |||
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If I was going to pick one place for big buff, I'd try to get to Maswa. There you get the big buff that roam in the Ngorongoro/Serengeti areas as it’s right between the two parks. The place is so good the family that owns the safari company books all of Maswa for the entire month of July every year just for themselves. September is a good time of year to hunt buff, however, and hunts in Maswa then are grabbed very early by hunters. | |||
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I hunted in Lokisale, and was nery happy with my hunt. We had fun first of all, the terrain is so different from the south. We saw lots of animals, and just happened to stumble on a super buffalo that I shot. In my opinion the best buffalo hunt is one that ends without incident, a good shot means more to me than the trophy size. Aleko Hits count, misses don't | |||
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Heritage arms, are you inferring that you had an 'incident' on your hunt due to poor shot placement? Or, should I ask, why were you not very happy about your hunt, especially if you saw lots of animlas and shot a 'super buffalo'? Thanks | |||
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Our hunt was great! I was referring to the fact a dead buffalo is way better than a wounded one. The buffalo we shot in TZ were all shot cleanly. Just in my experience a clean kill outweighs the trophy Aleko Hits count, misses don't | |||
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Opps, I read it quickly and mistook "...nery happy..." with not very happy. Great to hear about your success!  | |||
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The problem with too many outfitters and PHs is that they promote unrealistic expectations. Regards, Terry  Msasi haogopi mwiba [A hunter is not afraid of thorns] | |||
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I am not an inch hunter, having just shot a female cape buff and cow ele! BUT I saw a 54" head in Harare on the wall - skull mount from the good ole days, the boss alone was over 15" and the other buffs 40" + next to it on the same wall, looked like babies - go figure! Say what you like we hunters are seekers, we always want better, bigger, nicer, thinner, fatter, tastier and that also includes our women!!!!!!!!!! It just never ends | |||
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One of our clients shot a buffalo of about 55 inches in the Mayowasi several years ago, but he apparantly shot it in the dewlap, Pierre stayed on it two days after the client gave out and returned to camp with one of the boys...Pierre decided it was not a mortal wound unless the Lions picked up the very little blood trail and killed it....I have never seen Pierre so distraughtf, he wanted that bull for his client... I have seen a number of 42 to 46 inch Buffalo in the Selous over the years and even killed a few of them...so they are there.......Alan who posts as Palmer just killed a huge old bull in R-2 that apparantly turned everyones head, he also got a nice elephant BTW... Last two years running I have shot two very good buff and year before last year was the best I will ever kill and both in the Selous..I have alway been lucky in the Selous and with less effort than most for some reason...AJ Van Heerden and I stalked a absolute monster on Panos concession a few years ago, but he gave us the slip on two ocassions, one time it got dark and the other a wind change... I still feel big buff are like gold, they are where you find them, when the Red Gods smile.. Spread in inches is only a small part of the over all good buffalo, other things like drop, heavy bosses, smooth old heavy worn bosses are rare and wonderful, scars, broken teeth, missing tail, shattered ears, all those things that make up character the spell "warrior" make a buffalo, and like Mark Sullivan says one that chooses to die fighting is also part of the equasion, I must add only as long as the buff decides to fight on his own, and with fair chase and not "inticed" into a charge.... I agree the Masai has some awesome bulls but they are not running around like chickens as some seem to indicate...A lot of hunters go someplace, get real lucky, kill a big animal, and from that day forward thats the best place in the world for a trophy, which may not be the case, nor do records impress me, as too much depends these days on hunting pressure, number of bulls killed the year before, rain, poaching and a host of other reasons that all of us in the business have to deal with every year...... Just some food for thought for what its worth..Most of all don't let the quest for a world record ruin your experience, it's great to get one of the big boys but thats mostly ego on all our parts, the quest is the honey you seek, enjoying what you do is most important. Just my personal opine on all hunting. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Seven days is too short for a selective trophy hunt. On a 7 day hunt you would be lucky to get 37" no matter what area. Ten days for 40"+ trophys. | |||
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The short answer to the (size question) is you get them where you find them, that is hunting Even on a ranch hunt, which some might perceive ( rightly or wrongly ) to be very easy to locate a big one, it is not always the case. We have been hunting since 1998 on [Dendro Park Ranch] Zambia for cape buff, in those 7 seasons (one season being no hunting due to Presidents proclamation) the clients have taken from 35/36" being the smallest to 43.5" being the largest, with 37-39 being the general average One of our AR GUEST posters JD from the Dakotas took two cape buff one 37" and the other 40" if my memory serves me correct !!! JD also mentioned he and Dene the PH saw at least a 44+ on the ranch BUT with hunting sometimes you see but you dont always get  I have heard of (some clients) that have been on a hunt and got back with nothing bagged but still had a wonderful time, that is what hunting is all about, the challenge and the expectation, not always the result Peter  This is Dale with his 43.5" - which todate is the biggest taken on Dendro Park Ranch - taken with .375 | |||
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I don't know if my post came across as me saying that the "result" was all that mattered. By some of the responses, it must have in some way. In no way am I saying that the result is all that matters the experience is everything in hunting. Preparation and research is the beginning of the experience, that we all so love and cherish. The only way I can relate what I am asking is to make a comparison to Texas whitetail hunting. I could bring anyone to Texas and take them to parts of Texas you would be lucky ever to see a mature buck. I could also take them to regions of Texas and certain ranches that are flat incredible. For a hunter coming to Texas to hunt whitetail, he would want to do the proper research to give himself the best chance of taking the type mature buck he was looking for. He would find that South Texas would probably give him the best opportunity. Even more detailed, would be to hunt in an area called "the golden triangle". This area recieves more rainfall on average than other areas of South Texas. This area would give you a better percetage chance of taking the animal you desire. But even then shit just doesn't happen sometimes. That type of reseach would allow me to begin my great experice knowing that I did the proper research a gave myself the best chance. I could rest assured when I go home empty handed or with a big deer, that I did my homework. That is all I really can control. There are alot of things that go into making a big buff. Spread is just one. But just like Texas, there are areas that give you a better percentages than others. That is all am asking from my post. | |||
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I personally never read that into your question, you are doing your homework, trying to cut through the hype and BS to avoid hunting an inferior area. Why wouldn't somebody want to give themselves the best opportunity for a great trophy, all things being equal? There is no "discount" for hunting a bad concession, or at the wrong time of the year...and the fact is there are differences in areas (some areas have been over-hunted, not managed as well as others, don't have the genetic potential, are hard to hunt, seasonal and/or water dependent, etc, etc). Of course don't "expect" a hard-bossed, quality, 40-45" buffalo around every tree, but it is fun to hunt an area where it is at least a realistic possibility. Most of us can handle less then desirable aspects of a hunt, if we are advised ahead of time, it is the obvious "discoveries" which should have been disclosed [uncovered] that cause the problems. That's all you are asking, and you recieved a few good responses. I'm looking towards Masailand in December myself, having a pretty good picture what to expect depending on the rains. Now about that golden triangle in South Texas...  | |||
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Lightening, Being an old West Texas cowboy by birth and by culture I can understand your thinking, but perhaps you have over looked one very important detail... Texas whitetail have been managed, over managed and under managed for many years, they have wild deer in certain areas such as San Antonia and the hill country that have over populated and become small and nemourous, they have fenced deer that are artificially insiminated with Canadian sperm and those bucks are huge, they have huge ranches in the golden triangle that are both managed with the imput of purchased bucks and that gene pool has passed on its get, but in that same area where less managment has taken place the deer are not nearly that large...I had a nice lease until two years ago that was in the middle of the golden triangle and was primarily a cow calf operation, lots of nice deer but with a rare exception was anything killed with over 135 B&C... Africa on the other hand is huge, and wild with only a few conservation type controls and the Selous alone is the size of Switzerland or larger... I pass that on for what its worth, but all this does make a difference IMO... If I had to advise anyone going to Tanzania, then I would tell them to expect a very hard bossed 38 to 42 inch buffalo on a 10 day hunt. I would bring to anyones attention that the difference in a 38 and 42 inch bull is a mere two inches on each horn, and one person out of a million can see that on a mounted head...I have a 38" bull on my wall that many a pro hunter has said "wow! he is a dandy, what will he go 42" He has big hard bosses, lots of sweep, I mounted him because he died at my feet and covered my shoes with mud when he went down..He is MY trophy....I have another that is much bigger and he got mounted because of his bravery, not his immense size.... I know where your coming from and your expectations are reasonable and I suspect you will be able to get a nice 42 to 43 inch bull if you give yourself enough time, have the ability to pass on a 40 inch bull, or simply get lucky in about any Selous concession or at least in the ones I have hunted...I have always seen plus 40 inch bulls in the selous, sometimes I didn't get them because they didn't get that big being stupid...All of these concession produce a number of 40 inch and better bulls every year, but the average is probably 38", that is because folks hunt 7 days and take a 38 rather than risk going home empty..and therein lies the truth of the Selous. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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An excellent post and alot of wisom. I even somewhat agree on the South Texas comparison issue vs. Africa. I think you might be cutting South Texas a little short. The browse and other factors make deer there bigger on average. Managed or not. For the elite ranches, management plays a huge role, whether is be high fence or low fence. But let there be no mistake about South Texas... "El Jefe" lives there someplace, somewhere.  | |||
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