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The "worked" ivory import question brought this to mind. In days past I've had Ele ear panels painted by local african artists. Is USF&W now dis-allowing this as a trophy from a sport hunted elephant? I checked their website, which is completely ambiguous, and have emailed Conservation Force as well. However, as I depart in 2 weeks, I was wondering if any AR Ele hunters have experience with this issue in 2013? Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | ||
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i'm guessing they'd give you slme grief. If you can't bring back manufactured ele products like a gunslip i think they'd bitch about an ear painted too. Bring it back plain & give to robert utne | |||
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LionHunter: I do not believe that you would now be able to bring in your painted ele ear panels.  I would not do so, unless someone on the ground in Africa that deals with this can definitively tell you. | |||
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They shipped two gun cases and a painted elephant ear from Zim in 2012. Worked fine then. Maybe things have changed since then? Tom ...I say that hunters go into Paradise when they die, and live in this world more joyfully than any other men. -Edward, duke of York ". . . when a man has shot an elephant his life is full." ~John Alfred Jordan "The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." Cicero - 55 BC "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand Cogito ergo venor- KPete “It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages.” ― Adam Smith - “Wealth of Nations” | |||
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Things have definitely changed, as of 12/2012. It appears that USF&W is now interpreting "worked" as any modification to a taken trophy other than standard (italics mine) taxidermy (tanning and mounting), and the dumb-ass courts have ruled in USF&W favor. Their liberal interpretation includes such things as brass/copper collars on tusks and wooden stands for ivory. Go figure? Honestly, I'm not sure what is now acceptable to the USF&W anti-hunting crowd, which is why I asked this question. Their interpretation and the courts submission to their "expertise" must surely be putting a large number of african taxidermists and painters out of work. That was NOT the intention of the original definitions in the statutes, rather the opposite. I'll post back if I hear from John Jackson at Conservation Force or from the esteemed USF&W. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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LH, Your 3 statements above are spot on...sadly! That is reason I am worried about the lion's destiny...politics rules as you see with all the headlines in the news these days...regardless of law or logic. I am afraid John has failed to factor in the Obama factor with USF&W...what I have been saying for 2 years. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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I do know that Life Form Taxidermy in White River South Africa has always been in tune with what can be or can't be done with your trophies, especially in regards to the USFWS. I would shoot them an email and ask them as well. Can't hurt!  | |||
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Mike Once they realize who you are I would think they would expedite your trophies straight to you. Just saying.... Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Hi Gents, As shipping agents we have heard nothing about what you are discussing and we are usually the first on the ground to be notified by USFW. I stand to be corrected on this issue but we have send out over 15 shipments this year with various elephant products including ele ear paintings, capped ivory, ivory on bases etc etc without any hassle... I shall look into this issue and update you with any changes to these regulations.. Best cuan | |||
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http://www.conservationforce.o...IST%20-%20NEWEST.pdf View "Purpose Code" (5th down) in attached link. Hope this helps. Kathi kathi@wildtravel.net 708-425-3552 "The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only one page." | |||
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I would bring the hide of the ears back as salted then send them to Robert Utne. Your shipping would be way less and I feel Robert would do a better job. He has a left ear from me and is painting it now. ALL the other hides I would have them tanned over there, about half the cost of over here and they do a better job. | |||
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Interesting conundrum though... are hides that have been tanned and colored "worked elephant products"? I don't know at this point. As others have said, confusing and open to each USFWS agent's judgement. NVM... I think Kathi's post cleared it up. Has to be marked with a P rather than an H in the designation. On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch... Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! - Rudyard Kipling Life grows grim without senseless indulgence. | |||
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I have received two replies from USF&W, which state that painted Ele ears can be imported under code "P" and tusks wrapped in brass and with wood bases can be imported under code "H". I have sent these on to John Jackson at Conservation Force and his preliminary comment is "very interesting". I have just sent the USF&W replies to Maria Europa of Hunter International and asked her opinion and guidance as my customs agent. I will post additional as I receive it. Now only 11 days away from departure for next Eles. At this point it appears USF&W says I can import "worked" trophies. I guess JBrowns facetious advice was correct, I only needed to let them know who I am.  Just goes to show that the haze from the burning vegetable matter in Healdsburg doesn't prevent clear thinking in all cases!  Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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Randy, I was planning on having Specialty leather in Iowa do tanning on an ele in Botswana in June for boots/bags etc. Do you have a source in the other side you would recommend? Thanks. Jim | |||
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JDT500--- I had mine tanned by the people Buzz at CM uses. I don't know the name but if you e-mail CM I bet they could tell you. I had Specialty leather do my ears and they came out REAL dark. The side panel done in Zim looked like it just came off the ele. | |||
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