On page 429 of 'The Wilderness Guardian - A practical handbook', it is written that 'Spider bites in Africa are not dangerous.'
Guess it depends on one's definition of danger, but my buddy certainly doesn't agree with this statement. Here is a picture of his leg after falling foul of a violin spider.....

Ouch ...!

Seloushunter

About 5 years ago, I took my sons to the RSA. We first went on a plains game hunt, then on a bird hunt.

I had a bump on my leg that I thought was a pimple. It got worse and worse. The day we left, I went to a doctor who gave me an antibiotic. On the plane from Johannesburg to London, I started sweating an incredible amount and trembling uncontrollably. I feared they would not let me in England. I cleaned myself up and made it in. We changed airports and got on a plane to Orlando. An hour or so into the flight it was the same thing. Sweating and trembling. At this point, I thought I may have had malaria as I had missed one pill.

I got home and tried to to rest. My girlfriend came over. We were asleep. I woke up feeling bad again. I took my temperature. It was 104+. I snuck out and drove myself to the hospital.

To make a long story short, I did not have malaria. I was bitten by a spider. They removed a big chunk of tissue what was dead and pitch black. It took a long time for this to go away.

These bites are no joke.

Damn Larry, I am seriously going to have to think about taking out a life insurance policy on you. You are starting to look like a lottery ticket.

Is a violin spider similar to what we call a brown recluse or fiddleback spider here in the US? Brown recluse bites are nasty, I know a guy who ended up losing half of his left hand from a bite he got from one hiding in his work glove.

I had posted the message below at the end of the "How Do You Treat a Tick Bite?" thread.

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Brown recluse bites have a tendency to go necrotic. Didn't stop off in some motel on the way home did you

You beat me to it. That would have been my first guess -- some sort of spider.

My late grandfather had a brown recluse, which he killed, nail him on the inside of his thigh many years ago. The bite site looked identical to that photo after a couple days. I've also seen at least two black widow bites that appeared similar.

Here's a photo from CDC of one in advanced state.



And.. this is a typical Lyme disease indicator:

David

If that is a violin/brown recluse bite please put the concerned person in touch with me. My brother was bitten whilst in Dubai and we were only able to stop the venom from spreading ever onward through the use of shock treatment. Please warn him that conventional treatements do not work due to the fact that this venom adheres to the proteins in the flesh and eats away continuosly until the bonds can be broken with shock.

I will get the shots of my brothers leg to you. To give you an idea I could push half of my thumb into his upper thigh.
Chat soon
Ian

With close relatives of both the black widow and brown recluse present in Africa, 'Spider bites in Africa are not dangerous.' seems a fairly stupid thing to advise.

I wonder what else they are equally expert on...

Ouch, those bites look really sore! In general though, the vast majority of spiders in Africa are pretty harmless, although you can still receive a nasty bite from a spider that is not considered highly venomous, eg from most of the baboon spiders or a large rain spider (genus Palystes). Most of the 'nasties' have a cytotoxic bite and the most common coming from sac and violin spiders (same as the recluse or fiddleback). There is one very nasty species of six eyed desert crab spider from Namibia which is supposed to be the worst of the worst, but fortunately there are very few recorded bite cases. Most of the 'bad' spiders also look relatively innoffensive by the way! The African black widow (which is neurotoxic) is probably similar in potency to the American species, and generally they are less of a problem, as there is an antivenom and they are web-bound and will not mess with you unless you mess with them. The 'bad' species generally represent just a fraction of the total species and therefore most spider bites produce some discomfort, swelling, with maybe some marginal necrosis and therefore nothing to worry too much about, although the 'baddies' can be another story!

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Originally posted by David Hulme:
On page 429 of 'The Wilderness Guardian - A practical handbook', it is written that 'Spider bites in Africa are not dangerous.'
Guess it depends on one's definition of danger, but my buddy certainly doesn't agree with this statement. Here is a picture of his leg after falling foul of a violin spider.....

Morons.

The violin spider is a relative of our brown recluse. The Button Spider of Arfica is a relative of our Black Widow. And thank goodness we have no US relative of the Six Eyed Sand Spider. I have read where at least half of those bitten by that half inch beast die, largely due to the fact that there is no anti venin.

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Fortunately, this spider, like the Recluse spider, is very shy. However, toxicology studies have shown that this spiders venom is the most venomous of any spider.

There is some question as to the danger posed by this spider. It is very shy and unlikely to bite humans and there are few (if any) recorded human envenoms by this species. However, toxicology studies have demonstrated that the venom is particularly potent, with a powerful haemolytic (the breaking open of red blood cells and the release of haemoglobin into the surrounding fluid) and necrotic (accidental death of cells and living tissue) effect, causing blood vessel leakage and tissue destruction.

Unlike the dangerous neurotoxic spiders (the Widow spiders, the Funnel-web spider and the Brazilian Wandering spiders), no antivenom currently exists for the bite of this spider, leading many to suspect that a bite by this spider is likely to produce a fatality.

There are no confirmed bites in man and only two suspected ones. However, in one of these cases, the victim lost an arm to massive necrosis and in the other, the victim died of massive haemorrhaging, similar to the effects of a Rattlesnake bite. http://www.animalcorner.co.uk/.../ven_spidsixeye.html

Not dangerous? I suppose it depends on what you mean by dangerous.

Actually, the most frightening part is that one cannot tell which insect he is allergic too.

Some of the insects most of us won't bother about, can be quite deadly to others.

One of the problems when I was bit was that it was several days before I knew something was really wrong. It was minor before that.

I got bitten a few years back in Tanzania on the back of my neck.

I have no idea what it was, but it was suggested it might have been a blister beetle.

Anyway, I had a very hard time making myself comfortable, as any time the collar of my shirt touched me it was very painful.

This last a few days, with a dard red rash on the whole of my neck and middle of the shoulders.

The pain went off about 3 weeks later, but I had scars that lasted almost a year.

Jeeze you guys better not come to Australia then...we have spiders here that will kill you in 8 seconds just by looking at ya.

Hi Saeed, a blister beetle sounds about right. If they feel threatened and walk across your skin they can leave a path of destruction. They are generally black with yellow spots (warning colouration like bees, etc) so any large, cylindrical beetle that is black and red or yellow is generally not to be messed with. I picked one up with tweezers once and you could actually see the corrosive liquid coming out of joints in it's legs!

Really great.. and scary photos. I don't like bites of any kind, but I think I'd pick a leopard over that kind of thing. Mystery venom gives me the heebee -geebies and you never know when you will get nailed. I have brown recluse spiders in plenty around my place, but so far the luck is running good, no bites. If I send a pic into AR, I want it to be me grinning oner a big tusk, not my exploding leg draining !!!

In nature there are often many mimics of dangerous species, eg. the false black widdow, and have seen the African equivalents too which are only a bit smaller and have shorter legs than the original. The black and red are warning colours to predators. In Zim, you also get the Rhodesian button/widdow which is easy to confuse with the brown button (Latrodectus geometricus I think), you can only usually tell the difference by looking at the egg-sacs although the brown is usually more common and not highly venomous. However the alternative version has caused a few deaths so any brown/black web bound spider with a red dot (all black widdow family) on the underside of it's abdomen should be treated with respect.

Since having been bitten by a brown recluse on my shin several years ago, I have a very healthy regard for looking in my boots etc. before putting them on. I didn't think I was going to die ,,, just loose my leg. When your friends are teasing you,,ooough, bitten by a spider,, what a sissy, how bad can that be,,, ha! 2-3 months of trying to keep your leg from rotting off. Looks just like the pictures. Plus, even after it has healed, there is still neuropathy,,pain where the bite was. Very nasty little buggers, and to think I was once only afraid of snakes,,

I was bit twice on the right leg by what I believe was a spider in Natal on a Inyala hunt. It got under the covers with me at night and the first bite was on the front on my ankle. It woke me up as it felt like someone stuck a hot needle into my ankle. I swatted at it and the next thing I knew, another hot needle into the back of my calf. About 1 week later I noticed two sores in these spots that would not heal. Finally got home and the Doc said, "yep!" spider bites. Took some anti-biotics and it took three weeks for them to heal. I still have pea size scars in those locations 4 years after the bites.

465H&H

I received the same unwelcome treatment from a Hobo spider here in Idaho about five years ago. Leaving my hunting clothes on the floor after a long day, I dropped off to sleep and then put the same clothing back on a few short hours later. A Hobo had gone into the folded up clothes. Stuck my arm thru the sleeve and barely felt the slightest of bites on my forearm. Squashed it, and thought nothing more about it. While not nearly as toxic, they still pack a whale of a bite, it turns out.

Over the course of the next three weeks, it went from a red spot to pimple to a boil, then up to a giant swollen red apple-sized sore. When it collapsed and started to rot it really got scary. Massive amounts of hydrogen peroxide, alcohol, topical anti-biotic and bandages, and several localized shots were needed before it started to recover.

Don't mess with those guys. You'll regret it!

Having spent most of my life following up on cases of biting and stinging insects and arthropods, it is surprising there are so few really serious incidents. Here in the states, we are a little spoiled, because we keep the outdoors outside. One of my last was a little kid who got a brown recluse bite on his foot that got a secondary MRSA infection. Almost lost his foot. Still has a bad limp. When I started, one of my first spider bites was a black widow bite on a seasonal farm worker's foreskin. Got it in a privy. It's important to check more than your shoes and socks!
Bfly

Some good advice when traveling to Africa.
If they say it's mildly venomous. It means nothing will happen to your tracker when he gets nailed but you will probably end up in Hospital or dead.

My elderly grandfather had a 'bedsore' on his ankle that would not heal. His primary care physician prescribed a treatment that was somewhat less than aggressive.
After some time, the wound deepened and extended all the way to his ankle bone which was also exposed. An examination and subsequent correct diagnosis (by a different doctor) as a brown recluse bite eventually led to a drastically different treatment, surgery and a full recovery.
Had it not been correctly diagnosed, he would have eventually lost his foot. As it was, the late diagnosis cost him quite a bit of mobility at the later stages of his life.

Rapid ID and treatment makes a difference.

ChetNC

I found a young female black widow spider in the doorway of a drug store on a trip to Florida many years ago. I brought her home and kept her in a large glass pickle jar and fed her flies from a pair of very long tweezers. She lived for three years.

Even at their largest body size the mouth parts on a window are very small. Nothing like the one inch daggers my full grown female Haitian brown tarantula sported.

I've seen spiders similar to black widows in Zim's before (red hour glass type marking on the ventral side of the abdomen). Guess where? In the shower. I left them alone but kept an eye on them while cleaning up.

Probably the worst bite to suffer is from a brown recluse type. That's a tough venom to knock out, the electro therapy might be a very good route to go for treatment.

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I brought her home and kept her in a large glass pickle jar and fed her flies from a pair of very long tweezers.

Geez, Ann, if you like raising widows, just holler and I'll catch a few for you.

I grow them out in the yard in various nooks and crannies. They especially like the undersides of my boat trailer, including the fender wells.

I often go out at night with a killer spray to hunt them down. That's a good time to catch them in their open feeding areas and put on a stealthy stalk. Any fairly heavy caliber spray will kill them provided the shot placement is good.

This fills the void for me between drawing permits here in AZ. There's no limit either because they're considered varmints here.

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Originally posted by Outdoor Writer:

quote:

I brought her home and kept her in a large glass pickle jar and fed her flies from a pair of very long tweezers.

Geez, Ann, if you like raising widows, just holler and I'll catch a few for you.

I grow them out in the yard in various nooks and crannies. They especially like the undersides of my boar trailer, including the fender wells.

I often go out at night with a killer spray to hunt them down. That's a good time to catch them in their open feeding areas and put on a stealthy stalk. Any fairly heavy caliber spray will kill them provided the shot placement is good.

This fills the void for me between drawing permits here in AZ. There's no limit either because they're considered varmints here.

Tony,

I just may take you up on that offer someday!

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Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
I've seen spiders similar to black widows in Zim's before (red hour glass type marking on the ventral side of the abdomen).

"Black widow", "Red Back" spiders, by whatever they are known have been spread to almost every continent and country by man. Same species. They are successful virtually everywhere man has settled, but rarely away from man's habitations - old or new.

One fallow deer hunting area North of Auckland in NZ near the beach has tussocks where if shaken several "red backs" will likely fall out of each tussock.


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I travelled with a girl through Malawi once and she was bitten in the middle of her forehead by a spider. A big "boil" grew and she was taken to Lilongwe Hospital where it was removed. It wasn't a bite but actually the spider had laid eggs into her forehead. However it grew again and she needed more little spider "babies" removed again in Harare. Luckily her skull was between the eggs and more fleshy matter and of course her brain otherwise they would have grown inwards.