Maybe I should know this but I don't. Is the 450 Rigby a propriatary cartridge? If not does anyone have cartridge dimensions and or address of someone who has reamers. Also who makes brass and may have load data for the 450 Rigby? Thanks for any assistance. "Z"

I have explored both the 450 Rigby and the 450 Dakota, & bought a 450 Dakota reamer. The two cartridges are nearly identical, but not interchangable, both are based on the 416 Rigby brass. Dakota brass is available and about $2.25 each. 450 Rigby brass cost more. I have reamer drawings for 450 Rigby and 450 Dakota, Dave Kiff of Pacific Tool makes the reamers.

The choice is: Brass availability, go with the Dakota. Pure nostalgia, go with the Rigby.

You may also form from 416 Rigby, or convince BeLL to sell you brass without a headstamp and purchase the headstamp die ($150), then headstamp and form the brass.

Are you panning on building a rifle for this cartridge?

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Currently in Exile on the Beautiful Olympic Peninsula of Washington State.

Email Address is rifles@earthlink.net

Web site http://home.earthlink.net/~rifles/

No affence here but John, how can anyone choose a .450 Rigby out of nostalgia?

As far as I know the .450 Rigby was developed during the 1990's. Like wise the Dakota I guess!

Regards

Mads

My actual thought was with the Rigby and Dakota. I wanted to go with the larger chamber and was told that in the proverbial emergency you can fire the Dakota in a Rigby chamber but not the other way. I have to chuckle a little at the odds of "if I loose my Rigby ammo and find some Dakota 450, that I can still use." I could also win the lottery with those odds. Anyhow that is what started my drive. I really love the 416 Rigby but will be buying a .458" cartridge. I thought about the 458 Lott but have come to the 416 Rigby cartridge, which the Dakota and Rigby both use. My intentions are to have a Dakota African built in this cartridge. When I called Dakota and asked if they would chamber the 450 Rigby they thought so but were not CERTAIN. At the same time I'm thinking components and only recall seeing 450 Rigby brass in one place and that was the Huntington 2002 catalog and I believe it even said coming soon. If the Dakota eventually is what I need then so be it. I truly wish Remington would take their "Ultra Mag" case and leave it full length and make a 450 Ultra Mag. A 458 Lott+ in essence, with no belt, THAT I WOULD TAKE IN A HEART BEAT. Thanks for the help. "Z"

Yep, the 450 Rigby is a recent cartridge, but the name "Rigby" speaks of nostalgia and Old Africa to me!

For Z, the 458 Ultra is nothing but the old 460 G&A ressurected with a different shoulder. Don't know if you read all the posts, but several months ago we had an interesting thread going on the ideal 458. The Lott received comment, the G&A was noted but faulted for a small shoulder angle, and the ideal fell out to be something like the 450 Dakota or Rigby due to lower pressures at 2400 ft/sec and a nice shoulder for positive headspacing. If you really want a 458 Ultra, or 460 G&A, it only takes a phone call to my reamer grinder and a set of case forming & loading dies. I have some 458's formed from Ultra brass, I will send a photo. Advantage of a 458 Ultra or 460 G&A over the Lott is lower chamber pressure at equal velocity.

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Currently in Exile on the Beautiful Olympic Peninsula of Washington State.

Email Address is rifles@earthlink.net

Web site http://home.earthlink.net/~rifles/

[This message has been edited by John Ricks (edited 04-26-2002).]

I interviewed Art Alphin when I was working on an article on the .450 bore size (in magazine rifles) several years ago. I also interivewed David Lyttle from KYNAMCO at the same time.

Art's company designed the Dakota cartridges for Dakota. The cartridges up through .416 are based on the .404 Jeffrey case, but Art said he moved up in cartridge case size because factories cannot maintain the dimensions in rifle chambers and cartridge to ensure positive headspace control on the shoulder with a .458 on the .404 Jeff case.(Careful handloaders can do so -- witness the .460 G&A). Art said his base case for the .450 Dakota was his own A-Square Excalibur case. It is very similar to the Rigby case, but not the same as John notes above. I have heard some comment that there have been manufacturing changes in the .450 Dakota cases since the original design, but I can't substantiate that.

KYNAMCO loads the .450 Rigby ammunition, and David told me that you don't get the .450 case quite right if you try to neck up from a .416. You need to start from a cylindrical case and work down.

jim dodd

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"if you are to busy to
hunt, you are too busy."

Sorry, I missed that discussion, I've been out of the mix for a couple months. Yea, I remember all the old articles about the 460 G&A and the 450 short, in Guns and Ammo and Petersons Hunting. I'd be really interested if it were an available case. I guess when you talk about these types of cartridges available is a "very relative term". The lower chamber pressures is why I have gravitated to the Dakota/Rigby chamberings, as I had stated my respect for the 416 Rigby is very strong, however, last time I was in Africa and on my hands and knees 50' from upset buffalo (a story in itself) I wondered why I had not brought a 500. I know the 505 Gibbs, 500 Jeffrey etc are good cartridges. In discussing this topic with a half dozen PH's I know and trust/believe, they have a general concensus that the .500,505,510's really don't have enough bullet weight for the diameter and especially the frontal diameter they deliver and the proportions are not balanced, in there opinions, and it makes sence to me. Soooo, I thought I would get in the 458 class with a 500 grain bullet and have a good balance to frontal diameter, bullet weight, and length;i.e.sectional density/penetration with lower chamber pressures. Maybe this has already been hashed out for me, how long ago was the "discussion" you mentioned. To be honest I don't know if I need a 416 Rigby necked up to anything as it is a GREAT cartridge, in my humble opinion, other than the fact I live in America and can if I want, that's enough of an excuse for me! Thanks again for the input. "Z"

Tim, email on the way with details.

With all due respect to David Little, I neck up and fireform Norma and Bell .416 brass to .450 Rigby with no problems whatsoever. It makes me feel more crafty to put a feeler gauge under the base of the case when necking up because it makes chambering the unfired round easier but after that all sailing is smooth. I don't bother to headstamp the case because I will never take the rifle to Botswana anyway and I've never heard of any other country making any kind of deal out of the situation. Certainly in RSA and Mozambique no one in customs gave a rat's patootie what the headstamp said. The Dakota and the Rigby both use .460 Wby loading data. I find that 105-106 gr. of IMR 4350 gives around 2300 fps and 6000 ft lbs of energy. That oughta be enough.

Sarge

Sarge,

David and I were discussing the making of thousands or rounds in factory production machinery, not realoading techniques of crafty reloaders like you.

jim

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"if you are to busy to
hunt, you are too busy."

Hey thanks Sarge, sorry this is not more timely, I've been gone a couple o' days. I appreciate the information on case forming and load data. I'm leaning toward the 450 Rigby as I am very fond of the 416 Rigby and even though the 450 Rigby is not that old it is still part of the fold. Kind of like the 416 Weatherby got skipped when everyone went from 375 to 458 to meet the .40 cal and bigger reg's. It is still a Weatherby and the 450 even though newest of the clan, well, it to is a Rigby. Is anyone else shooting either of these (450 Rigby or Dakota) I would really like to hear from you and why you shoot the one you do. Also, where are you obtaining brass? Thanks, "Z"

I'm shooting the 450 Dakota. I buy the brass from Dakota, it lasts forever at the levels I'm loading. I chose it because my rifle uses a Dakota action as the basis.
I think the Rigby is fine, but it will never have the reputation or cache the 416 has. Kinda like H&H's latest attempt to capture an already overcrowded segment of the market.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Zedman:
Hi Zedman,
Just for interest sake why not take a look at my website www.470mbogo.com and you can look over all of the comparisons of the 416, 458, 475, 505 and 510 calibers that you've mentioned in this thread. Just look under the "Comparing the Big Bores" section.
Take care,
470 Mbogo

Z-Just for info only. In early 1999 I bought a Ruger .416Rigby from a fellow who "needed" another rifle, and had no further use for the Ruger. Since I had been shooting a .416Taylor for eleven years, I really didn't have use for the .416Rigby. Sooo, I sent the barreled action off,and had it opened up to 45 calibre and rechambered to .450Rigby. Since I already had some 4o pieces of .416 brass, all I did was fire-form them in the "new" rifle. All functioned quite well. Load data was a basically Dakota. Example: .450Dakota, IMR4831 112grs. I used IMR4831, and 110grs. Suggested velocity with the Dakota load was 2444fps, and the load in my .450Rigby chronographed 2420fps. After experimenting with several loads, I chose IMR3031, and 95grs for an average velocity of 2415fps for five shots. I used this load in Zim in '99. and I can't honestly say it killed any more efficiently than a .458WM. But,I will attest to the fact it has considerable felt recoil. The rifle was extremely accurate, 3/4" at 50yds. But, after all was said and done, I sold the rifle. I was made an offer I couldn't refuse, so the .450Rigby went away. Would I do it again, emphatically NO! Too much work for the amount of gain. My feeling is if you must have a .450 something or other, save your money and get a Dakota. That's the story of a Ruger re-build job. Sakubona, Mukiwa

John, 470 Mbogo, J.L., Just wanted to say thanks to all three of you for your additions, some really good information and the site 470 added is great! (Incidentally, my license plate is MBOGO.) Anyhow, I need to get back to the 470 Mbogo pages and read the rest of the information. Thanks Again, this was what I was really interested in your why's as far as why you are doing what you do. Good Hunting. "Z"