Had some discusions with ph's and outfitters from Zim recently and most of what I heard is pretty negative......

The issue of quota seems to be totally out of proportion. e.g. in one area an outfitter shoots 220 buffalo bulls in a season. An area of similar size in Tz (for example) would shoot a quota of 30! Such numbers seem to be totally unsustainable in any area for more than a few years and even then, the trophy quality would drop after 2-3 seasons!

Another Ph told me he gives Zim no more than 2-3 years before it "crashes" at current rate.

Has anyone else heard of similar reports?

BM

I am one of those pessimistic on the Zim's situation, only hope I am proved wrong BUT dont hold your breath !!!

Elections due in March, maybe lets just hope and pray that I am a fool and dont know what I am talking about ....

Their currency is a BASKET CASE ....

Monday, January 17, 2005

1 US Dollar = 5,500.40 Zimbabwe Dollar



Good luck and good health, keep taking the pills and lets see what Doctor Mugabe has up his sleeve next

Peter

She will survive and still is a great place to hunt. The road to recovery will be long and will include many downturns.

Well, how long to you figure SA is going to survive?

quote:

---

Originally posted by gunny:
She will survive and still is a great place to hunt. The road to recovery will be long and will include many downturns.

---

Gunny - they are still searching for the start of that road!!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
the issue of quota seems to be totally out of proportion. e.g. in one area an outfitter shoots 220 buffalo bulls in a season. An area of similar size in Tz (for example) would shoot a quota of 30! Such numbers seem to be totally unsustainable in any area for more than a few years and even then, the trophy quality would drop after 2-3 seasons!

---

Keywords in "bold" ^.

Larger outfits merging, trophy fees rising, quotas set too high on the hunt-base species
... "Anything Goes", when the end's in sight.

I thought there was good deals available there because of a downturn in the numbers of hunters hunting and quotas not being filled ???

Who is shooting all these buffalo then ? South Africans ?

quote:

---

...in one area an outfitter shoots 220 buffalo bulls in a season...

---

I realize that you probably care not to name the concession or outfitter, but what part of the country does this outfitter hunt?

What I heard the problem to be this year, at least in the well-run concessions, is lack of available quota. One PH said obtaining quota is the challenge, and that many are sold out or going to the SCI show with very little for this year, especially buffalo. He said that some Zim outfitters (north-east) did extremely well at the Dallas show, and the feeling was that 2005 will be the best year in many.

I guess it is all who you talk to. I can appreciate that the perspective of many of the Zim operators is one of doom-and-gloom, they have been through a lot already. I hope the industry holds together in Zim. This is one of the reasons that I choose to hunt with optimistic and upbeat PH's. These trips are way to expensive to be hunting with somebody who does not want to be there.

But you hear this type of attitude talking to many PH's from all over the place. In the Harare airport in Zim this past April, I had a long chat with a gentleman (operator/PH) who has two blocks in the Selous (Tanzania). He had nothing but negative things to say about the quantity of game and political issues there. He complained about having to sell lion and ele hunts, knowing that there was very little chance for either. He had tried for a concession in the Luangwa Valley, but did not get one, so was hunting the Selous. Of course, as we have seen with the results from some of the hunts, there are some wonderful blocks there too. But if I didn't know better, I'd have thought all of the Selous was shot-out.

There are some good areas and outfitters in Zimbabwe. But with unsustainable harvest the out come is clear.

Let's not forget most hunter are attracted to Zimbabwe becuse of price, not quality!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Robert johnson:
There are some good areas and outfitters in Zimbabwe. But with unsustainable harvest the out come is clear.

Let's not forget most hunter are attracted to Zimbabwe becuse of price, not quality!

---

I was drawn to hunt in Zimbabwe for two reasons. I want to do a hunt in each of the game rich countries before I die. Zim seems to be on a long death spiral and before it gets much worse, I would like to hunt there. The rules there seemed to be more reasonable than some such as Botswana and Zambia for a general mixed bag. I do not want to have a shit hunt like I had last year in Tanzania. Is there anything I can do on my side to gurantee that I am not being deceived as to the quality and quantity of game available in the area. I have been lied to before by an Outfitter. It is,at best, an embarassing situation if not criminal.

quote:

---

Is there anything I can do on my side to gurantee that I am not being deceived as to the quality and quantity of game available in the area. I have been lied to before by an Outfitter. It is,at best, an embarassing situation if not criminal.

---

Check references very carefully and preferably from the 2004 year. Also ask whether the referees have anything to do with the outfitter or agent. Of course they may lie. Look at the Hunting Report for the outfitter and the concessions. Ask on these sorts of forums about the outfitter, the PH and the concession.

The main way to not get screwed is to usually pay more money and hunt with outfitters in concessions where both have very very good reputations.

There is almost always a reason why prices are lower ...... Sometimes you just take your chances and get a good deal.

well so long as wildlife keeps paying for it self it is safe in certain areas .mainly goverment leased concessions and safari areas unfortunatly on private ranches and concervancys the days are numbered.so wack em and stack em while you can buggers.2002 was the end of an era in zim .the next few years it will be the end of the game.

Tinie ... any relation to Doug?

Zim used to be an absolute paradise but as we all know the lunatics have now taken over the asylum.

The remaining landowners & concession holders are now selling as much as they can as quickly as they can in an attempt to make as much money as they can whilst they are still able......which is why their prices are so low and also why so many hunters are going there.........frankly the only way the rest of Africa can beat zimbabwe is on quality & security, because they sure as hell can't beat them on price.

But the ever increasing poaching problems (as an example, last year there was a post on this forum claiming one area had lost over 60% of it's game populations) combined with the increasing number of animals taken for sport must mean that the short term future of the game looks far from rosy........in fact, the term that springs to mind is bloody awful!

Even if the political situation was resolved tomorrow and a sensible stable Government installed it would take some considerable time before things got back to normal (if ever)..........it would take a considerably longer period for the game populations to recover to the numbers they were 10 (or so) years ago.....

In the short term I would personally expect things to get worse before they get better and sooner or later I expect to see an increasing number of hunters having problems there...........but in the longer term I would HOPE that the political problems are resolved, landowners get their lands back, the game populations will recover and hunters will be able to go back there in complete safety.

...........but I always was an optimist.

I wouldn't reckon it's advisable to book a Zim hunt a long time in advance. and when I hear about people booking hunts there for 2006 and beyond, I can't hepl but feel that some are going to get their fingers burned.

......I expect I'll get accused of "Zim bashing" by a few forum members for this post, but it is my honest opinion........

quote:

---

Who is shooting all these buffalo then ? South Africans ?

---

Not necessarily. The way I was explained (or at least the way I understood it) was that the quota has been set by the authorities and the concession holder needs to fully utilise this quota in order to be sure he get's to keep the concession in the future. The "big players" will scoop up blocks from any underperforming outfitter.

quote:

---

I realize that you probably care not to name the concession or outfitter, but what part of the country does this outfitter hunt?

---

The above examples refer to the Zambezi valley - Northern Zim but is not limited to one particular outfitter or area. It seems to be rather common.

quote:

---

What I heard the problem to be this year, at least in the well-run concessions, is lack of available quota. One PH said obtaining quota is the challenge, and that many are sold out or going to the SCI show with very little for this year, especially buffalo.

---

Bill, how many buffalo does that particular outfitter have? Not having quota to sell does not necessarily translate to having a "small" quota! If one has 300 buffalo and has sold all of them and is still turning away inquiries, he will wish to have "more" quota.

quote:

---

In the Harare airport in Zim this past April, I had a long chat with a gentleman (operator/PH) who has two blocks in the Selous (Tanzania). He had nothing but negative things to say about the quantity of game and political issues there. He complained about having to sell lion and ele hunts, knowing that there was very little chance for either.

---

And he is probably right. Not all blocks in Selous are good for variuous reasons. Ammending quota in Tz is not an easy thing. You have to prove your request with "scientific evidence" such as game counts; and these cannot be done by the outfitter but by TAWIRI which is the authority on wildlife research at enormous costs to you. More importantly, you better recce a block before you apply for it and get it

quote:

---

I do not want to have a shit hunt like I had last year in Tanzania. Is there anything I can do on my side to gurantee that I am not being deceived as to the quality and quantity of game available in the area. I have been lied to before by an Outfitter. It is,at best, an embarassing situation if not criminal.

---

It has been repeated over and over again. RRR; References, Research and Reputation. Additionally, let others know of your good and bad experiences. TZ, like other countries is full of "briefcase" operators who will cheat, lie and steal to get a booking. Often they stand out by offering "impossible deals"!

Happy hunting!

ya chum he is my uncle .unfortunatly his passport was stolen so he cannot make any of the shows and icannot get a visa for the states . one of the many perks of having a zim passport

LB404 - "I do not want to have a shit hunt like I had last year in Tanzania. Is there anything I can do on my side to gurantee that I am not being deceived as to the quality and quantity of game available in the area. I have been lied to before by an Outfitter. It is,at best, an embarassing situation if not criminal."

Yes Leonard, there is something you can do.

I don't blame the agent you booked through, but the answer is to book (through an agent or otherwise) with a reputable outfitter who has been in the business for a long period of time, insist on a comprehensive safari contract and ask for and check references. That doesn't just mean send a couple of guys an e-mail asking if they had a good hunt. You need to produce a proper questionaire asking them to detail facilities and standards etc and then compare a selection of returns. don't particularly look for one that looks outstanding, look for a good average.........but most importantly look carefully at what you get for your money........there is no such thing as a free lunch and if something is offering a bargain basement price it translates to a cheap, poor quality hunt. If you want a good product you have to pay for it.

Steve, I did that very thing last year and still came up short. Outfitters are only going to give you names of clients that they know are satisfied. You may be able to fool all of them some of the time but not some of them all of the time. I booked through an outfitter that had a good reputation. He was recommended by someone I have known for many years and have had numerous dealings with and still got the shit sandwich. Contract and all!!!The price for the hunt was similar to others that were offered, and there was the assurance of bountiful game as the area had not been hunted for many years. What!call him a lier???? I don't know. The bad thing is that I took my best friend on the trip and he lost his money also. Very bad all around. It goes downhill from there.

quote:

---

bountiful game as the area had not been hunted for many years

---

Translation: We have never hunted there before.

Leonard...........was this the Tanzania buffer zone hunt or a different hunt?

lb404 - I am curious as to when, where, and with whom. I know the lack of rain was a real problem in Northern and Central Tanzania. Just curious.