I have been away hunting locally for a few weeks. This morning I was catching up on some of the posts here and thought I would post about a Buffalo hunt I had in June.

My hunter was using my 375HH and my 300 grain Swift Aframe bullets. They are going 2600 plus fps. The buffalo was about 100 yards away. The shot was slightly down a hill.

At the shot a cloud of dust exploded of the hide and the bull ran as if un-hit down the little rise until out of site. The stressfull job of following this bruiser followed with a lot of tension as we walked with very little blood for most of the distance. In a couple locations in the bush I could see blood on both sides of the trail leading me to believe that the bullet exited.

We spooked a couple buffalo as we moved quietly throuugh the bush but they departed quickly and caused a bit of stress for us both as they exploded in the bush right in front of us. This is not something I ever look forward to. The drops of blood were getting thin and distant. Then we saw a lot of blood probably from where the bull stood for a little bit.

A short distance further the bull lay dead. I looked back up the hill and could see where we started from. I lazer ranged it at just over 200 yards. This bull would have travelled much further then that with his wandering around the bush for several minutes. I would guess he was alive as much as 3-4 minutes after this shot.

The hunter was surprised that the bull would go that far from what He thought was a great shot. I told him buffalo are very stubborn to die at times. The bullet was perfectly placed and it did exit without hitting a single bone. This is my main reason for wanting broken bones on Bigger animals. They tend to travel far less distance with a leg bone and heart/lung hit. They also charge far slower with one bad leg!

Tell me what you think about the toughness of a buffalo with this shot. A centered heart shot is certainly not a crumpling stopping shot!

Impressive. I guess that is why Cape Buffalo are called "dangerous" game. I would not want him stomping on me for 3 to 4 minutes while I waited for him to die.

JJ
I shot a cow buffalo with a 480 Woodleigh Soft from about 12 yards, broadside right through the shoulder, right through the heart. The bullet did not exit but was against the hide on the off side. She went @ 150 to 200 yards through thick brush. We had blood from the wound and the nose/mouth making us think the bullet had gone all the way through till we found her. She got up as we aproached but I put two solids into her, the first knocked her down and the second for good measure. There was a good sized hole through her heart.
I shot a running buff bull at about 35/40 yards with a shot that hit a little behind mid body, went through the heart, exited the ribcage and was stopped my the off shoulder bone.
A 500 gr Swift A-Frame also from my 450 No2. He was down within 40 yards. I put 2 more 480 Woodleigh Solids into his back, which was toward me. He scrabbled around and as I ran up tried to get up. I placed another solid just behind the jaw raking back into his neck which knocked him down on his tight side. I then reloaded and places another Swift A Frame into the center of his chest, a frontal shot. The 2 A frames went through his heart. He had 2 entrance and exit wounds in the heart. Both Swifts and the Woodleigh from the cow were recoverd, perfectly mushroomed.
Yes, you are correct Buff are tough.

A heart-shot buff can run 27.6 miles, or is it kilometers?

JJ If you use a solid from a .375 they can last at least 30 minutes. Have never seen one run more than 300m after a heart shot with a reasonable soft point in any caliber.

Never seen one go more than 50m if you use a soft in a .500 cal.

I respectfully disagree that bullet weight has anything to do with your performance. If the bullet exited from the 375HH in this example, any additional weight was un-needed. Now Diameter is another thing altogether!

After seeing dozens of recovered 375HH 300 grain mushroomed Aframe bullets I promise you that bullet was well in excess of 50 caliber when it went through the heart. So I'm not sure why one buffalo falls to a heart shot and another runs hundreds of yards. It's something in their minds that allow this in my opinion.

The only certain way to crumple any big animal is with CNS hits, not heart hits or lung hits or any other hits period. If you fold an animal with an exclusive heart shot it is the exception rather then the rule. Everyone must realize that high resolution is what determines the odds not single or limited events.

As with all big game, killing them is a piece of cake, finding/ stopping them is another issue.

I am convinced that Doctari (K. Robertson) is on the right track. The elapsed time from shot to death must have something to do with the timing of the shot respective to the heart beat and with the location that heart is actually struck.

My Dad always tells stories about how tough moose are based on a few lead absorbing experiences he witnessed over the years. One in particular is relevant to this thread. He says that he shot a moose through the heart one year that ran more than 200 yds. Apparently when he followed up on the track he found chunks of heart on the ground and when he reached the animal what was left of its heart was hanging out of the exit wound. He was using an 8mm RM with 220gr Hornady's.

My point is...if moose can run 200 yds without the use of their heart, I'm not the least bit surprised that buffalo can do the same.

I am not sure, physiologically speaking, how this would work for a perforated heart, but it seems that it sometimes does. You would think that the sudden drop in blood pressure to the brain would cause rapid loss of conciousness.

Cheers,
Canuck

I prefer lung shots. I quit using heart shots for the reasons described here.

Preface this by saying I have never been to Africa, have not hunted these animals.

One thing I found is that a calm animal taken with a heart shot does not usually fold up, but will drop in a short time. An animal that knows you are there, and has spent the last half hour breathing hard and getting irritated will usually make a dash after hit, 100 to 200 yards not uncommon, then drop hard.

The real difference is where does the animal run? Away results in some tracking and hauling. Towards you, with mayhem in mind, is another thing entirely. As I understand it, buffalo have this "attitude" about the whole process that makes a big difference.

I think you are right on the only thing that drops an animal, stop CNS functionality and the animal is down. A heart shot can do this, sometimes the process seems to be in slow motion, however.

While butchering beef, I always used a brain shot for this very reason. Course, beef don't seem to have the "attitude" issue, either.

I consider lung and heart shots the same regardless of animals. Personally, I use the shoulder no matter what the target is. There is however some scientific data to support where the heart is in it's cycle., i.e, systolic or diastolic (Intake or exhaust for us jet-jocks) that may casue severe blood pressure loss and subsequent loss of conciousness. I think the "Perfect Shot" author is on the right track. jorge

Will,

I understand the sarcasm. On the other hand it's good to know that a heart shot buff will not necessarily flop over dead. You've probably shot more of them than most around here, why not give us the benefit of your experience?

JJ,

My two cents; I've shot six buff. Four with heart or heart-lung shots and two lung-only. In this admittedly small sample heart shot buff die MUCH sooner than lung-only shot buff. The very first one I hit in the upper rear lobe of both lungs and he led us a merry chase. Required miles of tracking and two more solid hits.

With heart shots it took a few seconds to a few minutes for the buff to die. By far the safest route.

If the heart is hit, any animal will bleed to death in a short time. For my money, low on the shoulder is the way to go with buff (or anything else). Best chance of heart-lung-shoulder bones.

Lung-only shots on buff are a little too exciting. CNS on first shot is just too difficult (for me anyway).

Brett

Questor, Brett,





I agree. In my limited experience the heart shot is just about an old wives' tale as to its effectiveness. I have never had any complications from a lung shot buffalo, or deer, or ......



The little stuff dies while still standing with Partitions and with Swifts the buffalo do not go more than a few yards.

I'll get the photo of the exit side, or what is remaining of the bloddy mess on the other side. I did not post it in the origal series becasue you cannot tell what your looking at. It's just a huge purple blob of goo that seems as if the heart had been torn in half while beating. Its an unusable photo because it does not show anything but bloddy goo. It's like a giant blood clot thrown against the wall. The entry side is as you see it here. At least with this photo you can tell your looking at the heart. The other ones are just garbage with shredded heart tissue and mess of bloody snot.

The last buffalo I shot (last week ) was a lung hit. The .500gr Woodleigh from the Lott entered front chest, went through the lungs and stomach and was recovered nicely expanded in the large intestine. He was with a herd, which was running (he made the mistake of stopping to face us), and at the shot he turned and went with them. He only when about 125-yards, but I thought this was pretty amazing.

The point is, that the PH said that if it were not for the herd running, he would not have gone near that far. Too, he knew "something" was there, which I think is different then if they are unaware of potential danger.

JJ,

What was the circumstances prior to the shot? Was the buff aware of your presence? Was it alert at all?

I seen our tiny roe deer run for over 100 yards up a hill side I could barely walk up after being heart shot with a .308Win.

In this case the beast had been spooked and stopped for that last fatal look back on the edge of cover, so I assume that is why it managed to cover the distance it did...

Regards,

Pete

Seem's to me JJ that you had a fellow shoot a rifle not his own and he placed a 300 gr bullet spot on and took out the heart from a 100 yards! Looks like both that fellow, rifle and bullet did a near perfect job of it. Well the heart of a Buffalo is a bit bigger than say a white tail deer yet I had plenty of white tail's go about as far after a heart shot. I don't really see a problem here, he collected a buffalo, no game was lost, no one was hurt other than said buffalo. If anything, I would say gee's that guy can shoot. I don't know if you would have a better result with a 416, I would guess that because the shootability of the 375 may of had something to do with it as well, you have to be able to put bullets on meat and in the right spot, you collect game.

I'm with George. I've seen many deer and antelope take a bullet through the heart and run 200 or more yards. Pronghorn always take off at a dead run when heart shot.

You gentlemen can argue as long as you wish on the merits of a heart shot on buffalo.

In my own experience, a tail shot buffalo drops in its tracks. In fact, the furthest I have seen a buffalo go after getting shot in the tail was about 1 1/2 steps!

Walter said this after after we discussed this "so if a buffalo charges you, you better shoot it in teh tail rather than the heart!"

A truer statement has never been said

I have seen lung shot buffalo go a long ways especially if one lung received little or no damage..Most heart shot buffalo travel less than 100 yards and the majority go about 50 yards..there are exceptions and I think it has to do with the fact that Buffalo are supposed to have a larger adrenaline supply than any other animal...I know of one Buff that went two days lung shot and I had one go about a mile or better heart shot this year or it appeared to be a perfect frontal heart shot?????

I would never lay claim to what any animal will or can do, I have seen to many instances that just didn't seem possible.

I know that 99% of the time a good shot will put down any animal in a few minutes and many instantly..I have only had one instant kill on a Buffalo with a heart shot, that I recall..

I consider the heart shot a much better shot than a lung shot on Buffalo regardless of what Will and Col. Boddington think!

I have seen the whole junction at the top of a buffalo's heart totally destroyed.
It still took him a few minutes to die!

Have any of you fellows seen the heart of a buffalo completely destroyed like, say an elk hit with a 300 weatherby at 100 yards?

Just wondering if it is possible.

Andy

Deer shot at 50 yards with 85 grain Ballistic Tip .243 Rifle. It ran over 125 yards jumped a barbed wire fence and must have died in mid-air. It lay crumpled on the other side of the fence. No adredlin pump-up prior to shot as the rug was pulled out from underneath her. The "autoposy" showed direct heart shot and it was basically a ball of mush. I think how quick they give up the ghost may depend on just how tough the constitutional is of the particular animal. By the way, I've mentioned this incident earlier on AR as it happened to be my son's first deer and the biggest whitetail body we've taken to date. For dangerous game, give me the biggest, baddest, mother I can handle. My prior posting may have read the distance the doe ran before jumping was 75 yards to the fence my eye sight is fading. It can't be my memory!! The bottom line is I was impressed with how far the animal travelled with no heart.

Andy,
I would say that you can knock the bottom or the top off a buffs heart or a big chunk out of the side, but you won't every mush it like a hi power will on an elk...99% of the time you get a round hole in the heart with some trauma around it..That distruction comes from velocity, such as one might get from Saeeds 375/404 at 2700 to 2900 FPS, but even then its not the same as your talking about on an elk...however you can get a lot of enternal bleeding and lung mush on a buff.

I can send you some photos of what happens with a 470 or 404 etc. if you wish. I cannot post them here. Saeed and gang are pretty good at documenting damage in buffalo.

Thanks Ray, Id like to see that.

I will send you a PM with my e mail.

I have been curious about this since I was surprised not to see more damage to the heart on the 450 Dakota with 450 gr NF at 2580 fps that John S. sent me photos of.

It was very much like Saeed is describing, with the big vessels above the heart gone but just a bruised entry hole. Did not see the exit, but there was a ton of congeled blood in the thorax from bleeding out those big vessels.

(You may remember two of these three buff did drop in their tracks despite no bone or CNS hits).

When I raised american bison I could almost completely destroy their heart using a 375 improved (300 gr at 2825 fps or 275 gr at 2975 fps) and the magnificent Bitterroot. This would expand to almost one inch diameter and retain 95% weight. So more frontal area than a 458 caliber North Fork. At that velocity if you hit high you might have some of the tip remaining but everything else was gone.

Still, like you say, it was not like a .300 weatherby on elk. But the congeled blood would fill a five gallon wash tub.

For what its worth I have seen 300 lb deer and 600 - 800 lb elk walk 30 yards without a heart, then drop over dead when I guess their brain ran out of oxygen!

This discussion does make me wonder if a higher velocity cartridge like Saeed's 375 x 404 and the very best premium bullets would not be more effective on buffalo than the traditional bullet weights. (I sure trust the North Fork).

Thanks for photos!

Andy

Saeed,
I have zero experience on killing or even hunting Buffalo but have had a number of deer and elk with heart shots that dropped and those that ran. It always seemed the common thread for the ones that ran is that they saw you and were alert. Ones that dropped were unaware of me and it may have been the shock that dropped them. I also found that some when I approached were still alive but those were mostly lung hits.

The sampline of the number I have shot like this certainly provides no definitive basis for a decision on why they ran, just something to think about.

BTW, does Walter have a traveling joke writer that follows him and comes up with these gems? (shoot it in the tail when it charges) Or is he just mentally gifted.

Ray,

I have to agree with you on the lung shot buffalo thing. I shot a buff this summer who took two .470 through the lungs a 500gr X and a 500gr solid. Criss crossed through both lungs.

He only went about 50 yards before he stopped up in the brush. But nearly 30 minutes later he had enough life in him to give us a quite bit of humor. (The story was posted in august on this sight.) (Will didn't like it..Go figure..)

I've also seen them flop over and die pretty much on the spot from near identical shot placement.

Some buffalo are just tough. I guess buffalo are like a box of choclates, you never know what you're going to get when you pull the trigger.

I hit a buffao in the heart with a .458lOTT a couple of years ago in Tanazania a 500gr woodleigh soft. He went about 200 yards a lay down but was able to stand at about 30 yards as a I walked up to him. He then fell over from a solid in the neck. You should never get to comfortable around these guys.

I've read an extremely intresting article on heart shots in the SA Hunter and Game Conservation Ass. magazine. When you shoot an animal in the heart they die (or eventually die) due to the inability of the heart to pump blood to the brain, therefore the brain cells die due to a lack of oxygen. According to the article the oxygen efficiency and the rate of heartbeat has a lot to do with the time it takes to die. A mouse for example uses a 105 times more oxygen for the same weight of brain tissue than an Elephant. The heartbeat of a mouse is 1110 beats per minute, a Blesbuck is 80, a Buffalo is 33 and a Elephant's is 28. After a heart shot ( I suppose the same will go for a lung shot) there is still enough oxygen in the bigger animals brain cells to allow it to react, depending on the oxygen efficiency it will take even longer to die.

That is the basics of the article. A book named "Scaling:Why is animal size so important" by Knut Scmidt-Nielson that was published in 1984 gives all the information on this this theory.

It all makes a lot of sense to me.

Regards
Jaco Human
jacohu@mweb.co.za SA Hunting Experience