quote:

Originally posted by Code4:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I have used all of them, and frankly, cannot find anything better than Leupold for my hunting.

I know you own this forum but you need to get your eyes checked mate. Yes, Leupold will do the job but they are a mid cost (do not refer to them as high dollar, please) average performance brand and what I consider entry level for reliability on an overseas hunt. There is a lot of light in Africa and Saudi and I will conceed that will hide the optical short comings of the Leupolds. Get to dusk though and the whole story changes.

I hope the Zeiss referred to in the poll is German and the S&B not the Hungarian models.

Good point. Of all the game I've shot in Africa, only once did I need the scope. Otherwise a scope in Africa is more of a hassle and time waster having to get it in the field of view first.
Personally I'm a Swaro snob. Hunting deer or elk in the US or Canada will put a scope to the test - dawn and dusk and distinguishing antlers from brush.

5-10% better performance at 2-5X the cost. At some point there is a diminishing return unless one possesses an unlimited budget or very few rifles....

I like swaro's but I can live with leupold. Never busted a leupold, but just sent back a swarovski.

Bino's is a different story, swarovski all the way.

I own and use them all, and they all work well, but IMHO the best thing going these days is the Schmidt & Bender Zenith FlashDot in one of their lower range variables.

Not inexpensive, but the best.

So, according to some posters, the Leupold scopes I have on virtually all my rifles are inferior and aren't worth crap at dawn and dusk. Sorry, but some of the non-USA posters are allowing their anti-anything-USA bias to intrude upon the truth and some USA posters have been sold a "bill of goods" by Ero marketing.

I guess the bushpig I took at midnight in Zim at 100 yards, one shot DRT, using only existing light couldn't happen since my scope was a Leupold Vari-X ll 3-9x50 purchased in 1995 and mounted on my Browning A-Bolt .300wm. We were inside a tent blind with only my barrel and the objective lens extended outside through a shooting port. The bushpigs were UNDER a tree. My PH asked if I was ready for the spotlight and I replied that it was unnecessary. He asked again as I guess he presumed the spotlight was needed; it wasn't.

I called and spoke with Leupold prior to purchasing that scope as the "new" Vari-X lll had recently come out and I wanted to get the best. After we discussed my satisfactory previous 20 years with a Leupold 3-9x40 on another Browning, he suggested I go with the Vari-X ll since I had been happy with the older scope and it would save me some money. No attempt to up-sell me, just an honest evaluation of the differences between the two scopes in question.

That scope/rifle combination is still my go to rifle in Africa and around the world. I have never had any problem with the scope in over a dozen African safaris and it has accounted for more than 50 African species. That's a lot of bouncing around in airplanes, safari trucks and hunting camps.

Leupolds are attached to all my big bores, including .375H&H, 416Rem and .458Lott and have taken the Big 5/Dangerous 7. I have never had to send one of my originally purchased Leupolds in for service - have sent them used scopes which came on used rifles and they were all re-furbished/checked and returned promptly without question.Can't say the same for a few other makes that came into my possession over time. Leupold is the most common scope I see mounted on PHs personal rifles.

I have NO reason to purchase any scope other than a Leupold and don't expect I ever will.

Great post Mike (LionHunter). Thank you for your response.

+1

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
So, according to some posters, the Leupold scopes I have on virtually all my rifles are inferior and aren't worth crap at dawn and dusk. Sorry, but some of the non-USA posters are allowing their anti-anything-USA bias to intrude upon the truth and some USA posters have been sold a "bill of goods" by Ero marketing.

I guess the bushpig I took at midnight in Zim at 100 yards, one shot DRT, using only existing light couldn't happen since my scope was a Leupold Vari-X ll 3-9x50 purchased in 1995 and mounted on my Browning A-Bolt .300wm. We were inside a tent blind with only my barrel and the objective lens extended outside through a shooting port. The bushpigs were UNDER a tree. My PH asked if I was ready for the spotlight and I replied that it was unnecessary. He asked again as I guess he presumed the spotlight was needed; it wasn't.

I called and spoke with Leupold prior to purchasing that scope as the "new" Vari-X lll had recently come out and I wanted to get the best. After we discussed my satisfactory previous 20 years with a Leupold 3-9x40 on another Browning, he suggested I go with the Vari-X ll since I had been happy with the older scope and it would save me some money. No attempt to up-sell me, just an honest evaluation of the differences between the two scopes in question.

That scope/rifle combination is still my go to rifle in Africa and around the world. I have never had any problem with the scope in over a dozen African safaris and it has accounted for more than 50 African species. That's a lot of bouncing around in airplanes, safari trucks and hunting camps.

Leupolds are attached to all my big bores, including .375H&H, 416Rem and .458Lott and have taken the Big 5/Dangerous 7. I have never had to send one of my originally purchased Leupolds in for service - have sent them used scopes which came on used rifles and they were all re-furbished/checked and returned promptly without question.Can't say the same for a few other makes that came into my possession over time. Leupold is the most common scope I see mounted on PHs personal rifles.

I have NO reason to purchase any scope other than a Leupold and don't expect I ever will.

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Huffaker:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I have used all of them, and frankly, cannot find anything better than Leupold for my hunting.

+1

+2

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
5-10% better performance at 2-5X the cost. At some point there is a diminishing return unless one possesses an unlimited budget or very few rifles....

I like swaro's but I can live with leupold. Never busted a leupold, but just sent back a swarovski.

1st sentance very true - diminishing returns.

I can live with Leupy as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
Trijicon did not make the poll ?

Reliability is an issue with Trijicon from what I hear from some users.


I have not had a problem but I have had a problem with the Zeiss Conquest and will not own another.

I use Leupold's due to durability and reliability. I use Swaro bino's for the same reason.

quote:

Which of these brands do you consider the best quality for rifle scopes? Please feel free to elaborate with additional comments.

I've used Leupold, Conquets, top end Bushnells, Meopta, Zeiss Davari, Nightforce, US Optics as well as other and there is no way in hell a Leupold will hold with a S&B in low light

+1 Dave Fulson
Trijicon for simplicity. I have been using a 1-4 [note true 1X unlike say a 1-4 Leupold which is actually 1.6X at lowest setting] for a year or so now - no reliabilty issue so far.
About to mount it on my .500 jefferys so if any problems that recoil level may bring about?
The optics are nowhere near Swaro - I also have a Z6 1-6 illuminated. Again a true 1X but the Trijicon has the advantage of no battery or switch.
For almost 20 years I used red dot sights without magnification on feral pigs and there is no better sight between 10 - 100 yds if you can see the target with the naked eye.
I shoot both eyes open allowing full peripheral vision and after many trials I can say that if there is any magnification for the master eye the brain will slow down proceedings.
We have binocular vision to measure distance and speed. Closing one eye negates all this advantage plus the field of view - great for general safety awareness and nuff said about DG as well.
I have Zeiss as well but most of my scopes are Leupold - best warranty by far which I have used several times over the last 30 years.
So - horses for courses - the European optics are brighter because of their poor light shooting conditions [moonlight with snow allowed in some areas].

How many have the ability to shoot their scoped rifle with both eyes open?

Mike

I believe reliability is as important as optical quality and as has been said, you pay a lot more for a little gain in performance.
I have a pair of 8X32 Leica Trinovids that are probably not as good optically as the newer Leicas, Zeiss and Swar which I also own however they are built like a TANK. I have greater confidence in their construction than any of the newer high end optics and are the units I have complete faith in and would take with me to Africa. Same goes for a rifle scope. Pick the one that you have confidence.

EZ

quote:

Originally posted by retreever:
How many have the ability to shoot their scoped rifle with both eyes open?

Mike

I always shoot my scoped rifles with both eyes open.....as well as the one scoped handgun I own.

I think all mned are top quality.

I tend to agree with Saeed for my hunting scopes and use mostly Leupold with one Leica thrown in.

However for long range I have a personal favorite:



100*F and 700 yards at the Wenatchee Range with .308 M118LR Round.

Over the past 30 years I would say that at least 95% of my clients have used Leupold scopes and I have seen exactly one Leupold scope fail (it fogged slightly). Yet I have seen multiple failures from fogging, broken reticles and frozen power rings from most of the other top shelf brands including Zeiss and Swarovski.
Their optics are undeniably great but delicate elegance is a costly extravagance - whether in optics, rifles or people

I would say that in my experience the Z6 series from Swarovski is the best, but it comes at a weight and price cost. I really like their illumination system, and the eye relief is excellent in the EE series. I can shoot them with both eyes open, but given I picked up a bad habit with rifles of closing one, I just can't break it to the point of getting any kind of acquisition speed. If you use the illuminated reticle on any of the IR scopes, you can get the same effect as trijicon's "Bindon" concept. Also, of course, any 30mm scope will be heavy. Also, the adjustments are right where they say they will be. The 1" version that I have is no where near as nice as the 30mm versions, but its also the older series.

The one S&B I have tried (on a friend's gun) was good optically, but as no one carried them locally at the time, I gave up on them. Essentially the same as the swaro scope I compared it to.

Kahles has good glass, but the one I brought for my .416 now resides on a 3 gun AR as the eye relief (1.1-4X) was way too short, and while I didn't raccoon myself, every shot had the scope hit my shooting glasses.

Zeiss optically, to me is not on par with the above 3. It is better than Leupold, but not quite as good as the others... But that may be because I have a couple bottom end Zeiss scopes. Their adjustments are reliable, and they seem to be a little lighter than the Swaro.

Leupold- I used to be a big Leupold guy until I got the first Zeiss. I still have more Leupy scopes than any other one. Leupold is the leader in customer service, but IMO I have to use it way too much (2 bent tubes, 1 reticle detachment, 2 hopelessly fogged scopes). The optical clarity and light gathering are not on par with the better euro brands. I also (maybe because all are pre-numeric models) have the problem of the adjustments being off all the time, and not the same. They will shoot the box, its just that 1 click is not 1/4 MOA like it says on the turret. I don't have a 30mm Leupold, but because of this, they are much lighter. I will still use them, but not on a high end hunting rifle.

I would also suggest looking at Nightforce if you want a 30mm+ tube long range gun scope. I think they are heavy and the ones I have seen used way to busy of reticles, but optically and adjustment wise they were just fine.

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
I believe reliability is as important as optical quality and as has been said, you pay a lot more for a little gain in performance.
I have a pair of 8X32 Leica Trinovids that are probably not as good optically as the newer Leicas, Zeiss and Swar which I also own however they are built like a TANK. I have greater confidence in their construction than any of the newer high end optics and are the units I have complete faith in and would take with me to Africa. Same goes for a rifle scope. Pick the one that you have confidence.

EZ

Ruggedness is S&B territory for sure

IMHO, S&B provides the best light transmission. I feel that S&B and Swaro stand above the others followed by kahles and zees with leupold bringing up the rear. Having said that any of them would be a fine choice. I have used all but the Swaro's, though I have used their binoculars, and my go to rifles wear Schmidt & Bender. It is at dawn and dusk where they really stand out.

Only have experience with Zeiss, Leupold and the older Leica. In my opinion, the older Leica's are the best scopes I have used. Other than looking at them at their booth in Reno, I have not used the new Leica's. I have not seen Leica mentioned yet. Their clarity and light gathering is second to none. I have several Leica's on my rifles and all have performed flawlessly.

Jeff

My experience is with a Swarovski 30 mm 2.5-10X. Fantastic scope for dusk hunting.

Zeiss Conquest 3-9X used scope I got a deal on - optics are as good as the Swarovski - I need to see how it goes

Leupold VX3 2.5-8 - again fantastic scope but the other two have better optics. I have many other Leuopold VX2, VXII etc. Very reliable and good for most hunting.

My final call - if I had the money, all my scopes would be Swarovski. But since that is not the case, I'll buy Leupold most of the time with the odd bit of extravagance!

I have owned every brand mentioned and then some. I presently have every named brand except Kahles on rifles. I do own two pair of Kahles binos, very good for the money. However, most of my rifles have Leupolds. My DG rifles from caliber 9.3 up (10 total) all have Leupolds and I will not consider others. I just don't trust the others when my life may depend on it. As far as Leupys in poor light, well, I shot a Leopard in Namibia at dark 30 with a 2.5x8 Vari XIII, DRT.

I have owned and used all the brands named here. The Swarovski gets my vote and it whats own any of my serious hunting rifles.I have asked guides from Alaksa,British Columbia and 4 countries in Africa and all have seen each of these brands fail at one time or another.Never had a scope failure myself(knock on wood) but given time it will happen.Swaros just have the best veiw for me.
Wesley

After terrific life long service from Leupold, I went nuts and thought I'd get more for exorbitant money. I was terribly disappointed by Schmidt & Bender. The short eye relief of all the Euro scopes I've tried is pathetic. The only big bore "scope kisses" I've ever been victim to have been with Euros. Maybe I'm an American slob, but HOLY COW that magnifying crosshair thing is retarded. If at highest power you can hide a delivery van behind the crosshairs, it completely defeats the purpose of a variable power scope. The clarity honestly didn't seem any better to me either. I may have seen a tiny bit more light gathered by the S&B over Leupold, but the other problems weren't worth the slight extra light. Oh, and the farthest I've ever had a scoped knocked off during travel was an S&B (the Leupold in the same case was fine).

I'm back to Leupold and will probably never stray again. While not being classic, the Leupold 2.5x8 makes the most sense to me for DG. In my opinion if I can't find an animal at 2.5x I need more practice.

Try and place a body shot on a close elephant with a 2.5 X scope - sure it can be done but it is not easy even with a 1.5-5 which I have experience with. All you see is grey hide - but what part of the grey hide?

Have none of you heard of Lynx?

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
I own and use them all, and they all work well, but IMHO the best thing going these days is the Schmidt & Bender Zenith FlashDot in one of their lower range variables.

Not inexpensive, but the best.

Not much to ad to this.

quote:

Originally posted by retreever:
How many have the ability to shoot their scoped rifle with both eyes open?

Mike

I shoot both eyes open with a scope but one closed with open sights.

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
So, according to some posters, the Leupold scopes I have on virtually all my rifles are inferior and aren't worth crap at dawn and dusk. Sorry, but some of the non-USA posters are allowing their anti-anything-USA bias to intrude upon the truth and some USA posters have been sold a "bill of goods" by Ero marketing

.

Mike, just to set the record straight.
The reason I prefere Zeiss before Leupold is because of the superior glass quality.

As I mentionend in my first post, I do a lot of low light hunting and with aging eyes and less than good eyesight, I just have to take advantage of the edge that Zeiss give me, period!

The scope preference depends a lot on what kind of hunting one does in my humble opinion.
I have not tried the top end Leupolds, but for many years a Vari X III in 3-9x50 with HD reticle was my "low light" scope.

The reticle in first or second focal plane is also something that we can discuss for eternity, but each has it´s pro and con.

About the anti-US issue; All my guns exept an Italian shotgun is US made (my "go to" rifle is an old Ruger with the paddle stock in 35 Whelen).
I use American made bullets, I reload on American made equipment, I use a lot of Cabelas clothes, and I have been using Leupolds for most of my plus 40 hunting years.

Still, I have found (based on my own and others experience) that the top end European scopes are superior when low light hunting is an issue.

Arild,

Obviously my general comments don't apply to you, so please don't take offense.

The Leupold HD reticle you mention is a real improvement for fading eyesight, as you found. It is my reticle of choice in other than DG reticles, for which I find the illuminated Circle-Dot to be unparalleled for fast acquisition and accurate POI. And yeah, my eyesight is also deteriorating with age.

I use Swarovski `scopes, 2.5-10x42 on 30-06, 2.5-12x56 on 22-250,1.25-4x24 on 458,all 30mm tubes.
I am not anti USA or anything ,but I prefer them over the other makes mentioned especially at dawn/dusk.Afriend of mine is agent for Swarovski in UK and,if my memory serves me correctly, the Swarovski 30mm tube transmits 97% of available light,which is good enough in my book.I regularly get 10/15 mins more hunting in evenings with my scopes and binos than mates who use other makes.
They stand the hard life, they got knocked,dropped and still are ok.
My Swarovski Binos were in a vehicle fire, melted the casing one lens started fogging up after the fire, so I sent them back to Austria and they were totally refurbished free of charge, now if anyone says thats not good service please tell me what is good service.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I have used all of them, and frankly, cannot find anything better than Leupold for my hunting.

It turns out from an operations research and engineering economy perspective Saeed is perfectly correct in his statement. He uses his scopes in a highly abusive environment and needs a rough and tumble medium performance optic in my view.

Ordinary hunting, even for dangerous game is not an optically difficult requirement. Leupold provides an optimal solution for these users. End of story.

Now on other criteria, especially for the European tower sitter who often operates in lowlight conditions where precision shooting at up to mid ranges are required German optics and reticules have been developed to fill this need. Because the foregoing German optics are typically signicifcantly superior to their Leupold counter parts, although Leupold struggles mightily to bridge this gap in my opinion.

Long range tactical users and hunters have a different requirement and I find that solution interesting as well as you can see on my USMC inspired system above.

Very interesting points. Have to say when the light is low on the last day of a safari and it might be the last chance you get.... its hard to beat that clarity edge you get from a Swarovski....

Also just realised that the topic says "High Dollar Rifle Scopes"
Would we still place Leupold in this category? They must produce the best value for money scopes in the world and I would certainly not put them on the same price levels as some of the other brands mentioned

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:

I deliberately stated in the original post that I was not referring to the low-level Leupolds, but rather their high-end scopes (such as the VX-7 series). These are not "mid cost" optics. The large 56mm objective models are typically between $1,500 and $2,000. That is hardly "mid cost" for a scope.

Personally, I think the comment towards Saeed was uncalled for.

The VX-7 maybe a high cost scope for you but I would not call them high-quality scopes. Others are free to disagree of course. I beleive the VX-7 are being withdrawn. No doubt the market has decided at that price there are better scopes to buy.

As to my statement to Saeed. I'm no Syncophant and will speak my mind. He may find them best for his hunting but in his later post stated they are VX-II Leupolds that have lasted well. These are not high end scopes. IMO he is lucky as they use 47yo technology. You asked for our opinion on what we think are the best quality scopes. You are getting answers.

Maybe you should have worded your Poll 'Which of Saeeds scopes should we use on safari ?' and you would get the answers you may want to hear.

Wow, last time i checked a scope was used for an aiming device on a rifle, having good optics is great for bird watching but broken reticles or being knocked way off in travel doesnt make it just because"the glass is so clear".

Bino's i'll take a Swaro any day, and thats what you are supposed to use to "spot" the game animal.

I have all Leupolds. My buddy has been getting into the zeiss conquests. they do seem a bit brighter and clearer but they are larger and heavier from what I can tell.

I think my next one will be a trijicon 3x9.

quote:

Originally posted by KMG Hunting Safaris:
Very interesting points. Have to say when the light is low on the last day of a safari and it might be the last chance you get.... its hard to beat that clarity edge you get from a Swarovski....

Mr. Goosen, the professional can always come up with the exception that proves the rule, and if you can afford the extra expense and weight on you rifle for that last day at twilight, then more power too you.

The VX7 in my view is an excellent optic offered at a more than fair price as competition to the botique manufacturer's like USO and the high end European builders. As such it was neither fish nor foul and has been suggested probably missed the mark.

I personally like high powered optic technology and also like to count the hairs on a prairie dogs coat at 300 yards especially in a sport where you shoot from a bench.



Custom built USO SN3 6.5-30x58 with 35mm tube, and lit reticle on 6.5-308 M70 target rifle on the Indian Reservation in NE Montana. For discussion purposes only, the above USO maximum effort went for about $3500 20 years ago. It helped me establish a rule to spend as much on the optics as I did the rifle.

One of my criteria for a scope is weight. Leupold's are light. Some folks will tell you this plays a large roll in recoil survivability, as not as much mass is being jostled around. I do like the clarity of European optics or I would not have so many Euro Binocs as I do. I do have a few Swar AV 4 X 12 X 50's and at about 12 oz they are very light as compared to most Euro's of this magnification which are closer to 20oz and they are great glass but I do not have them on hard recoiling guns as I understand they are recoil sensitive.
I do not own any S&B's, Zeiss Victories or Swar Z6's.
I believe something else to consider is the water beading coatings that some manufacturers offer as a great compliment for practical applications (Bushnell, Zeiss Victory, and Leica). Probably one of the best technologies applied to scopes in recent memory. All the major manufacturers should embrace this option.
There were some of the new Leicas being promoted on this site for about $1000.00 I believe. I have no idea as to their ability to withstand the rigors of a tough hunt or a heavy banger however I do suspect their optics are 1st class and they do have a hydrophobic lens coating and I think they say they have about 4" of eye relief.
You may want to make a list of what is important to you (i.e. weight, durability, optical performance, customer service, reticle options, eye relief, mechanical performance, range of windage and elevation adjustment, price point, hydrophobic lens coatings, Flourite objective lenses, lighted reticles, reliability etc. etc.) and then base your decision on what best fits these requirements.